For those in political power who don't know the freed slaves actually started reading the bible for themselves after 1865, we don't necessarily depend on the Pastors or denominations to tell us what the Book says about salvation, heaven or "ssm."
How gracious of the ACLU, IRS and AG Holder to make sure we understand the importance of how to campaign for PBO in this election cycle. Perhaps they're also going to visit our churches to elude to a few of the unfortunate consequences to our 501(c)3 status if we encourage/recognize the people's will to dissent to, . . . let's say, certain WH policies?
Really now? The well-documented, 'God bashing liberal lawyers' at the ACLU are coming in to HELP US poor, ignorant savages? The loyal, voting block who just does what its told and only asks MASSA' HOW HIGH, if he dares think that much for himself? The AG? Hey, is he bringing any help on some jobs, crime reduction initiatives or some plan to help our ex-felons get gainful employment? The IRS coming to help us file those late tax returns, huh?
All of this is to be helpful? Don't remember this show of concern or warning in '08. We must have attended early morning service and missed it. For those still visiting the 'La-La Land of Denial' - here's some food for thought.
Here is the actual article:
Attorney General Eric Holder, the IRS, and the liberal lawyers at the ACLU will brief several hundred pastors in the African American community on how to participate in the presidential election -- which the Congressional Black Caucus chair expects will help President Obama's campaign.
"We will have representatives from nine denominations who actually pastor somewhere in the neighborhood of about 10 million people, and we're going to first of all equip them with the information they need to know about what they can say and what they cannot say in the church that would violate their 501c3 status with the IRS," Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., told MSNBC today.
"In fact, we're going to have the IRS administrator there, we're going to have the Attorney General Eric Holder there, we're going to have the lawyers' organization from around the country, the ACLU -- all giving ministers guidance about what they can and cannot do," he noted.
Cleaver said they would not tell pastors which candidate to support. They will let them know who to regard as the bad guys, though (hint: not Democrats). "We're going to talk about some of the draconian laws that have cropped up around the country as a result of the 17 percent increase in African American votes," Cleaver said, describing voter ID laws as a form of Jim Crow-style "poll tax" on seniors and black voters.
The CBC chairman is confident that "President Obama is going to get 95 percent of the [African American] vote," and wants to keep that turnout high. "We want to let them know that there is a theological responsibility to participate in the political process, at least in the Judeo-Christian tradition," he said.
Thank you Obama WH for exhibiting the exact response we anticipated regarding these damnable tidings. In kind, those that serve God first will render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, . .but not one 'blood-bought' child of God, will sell you their soul for the gays' agenda progress against the Church. Just felt my spine stiffen, sis. & bros.
Hearing you loud and clear Bro.
This is a two edged sword sort of aimed at anyone that plays with the sword.
Let's try to focus on God' will for the moment. What is God's will? Well we know love and unity, but those words do not have a lot impact compared to covenant relationships and there are two we should look at? The first was at the time when Jesus showed up the first time. Israel entered covenant with Rome and the deal was that Rome would let Israel operate. Israel at that point was surrounded by Rome, because it trusted Rome more than it trusted God. So we have to look at how this happened and it happened when Israel entered covenant with Rome. Covenant meaning agreement. We know what happened as Israel was the most powerful nation on earth slowly lost faith and as a result almost all Jews were wiped off the face of the earth about 60 years after Jesus.
The next example is Hitler and how he was able to do what he did, which was he entered covenant with the church.
I want to say something profound here like "Church wake the freak up!" Get a clue or something, but here we have leaders of the church entering covenant with the government and just tickled pink happy to do it. DUMB! Sorry there is no better way to say that? Then we wonder how division steps in>? Maybe because we invited it by yielding more to man than yielding to the will of God.
How enter covenant with the government? Answer: Articles of Incorporation or maybe 501c3 which states one can have one if we agree with the laws. Want to end abortions? Probably by stopping agreeing with abortions. Government agrees with abortion and as a recipient of the government in a 501c3 you get to agree also, which also means we just kicked "blessed are peace makers as they are the children of God," which means we get to go to war whenever the government says we should go to war? Who cares what God says? Right?
We like 501c3 because with that we can have un-taxed possessions and property, but we really need to understand the flip side which is getting into bed with devil, but what happens is the government is actually helping pay for church buildings and possessions, so we probably need to ask ourselves if it is worth it or does God's will mean less to us than our stuff?
Division comes from within and it is a sin. How division comes in is we allow it by entering covenant agreements with governments instead of trusting God. I mean everyone goes around saying they believe the Bible is true and then go get a 501c3? huh?
Here is why it happens. It happens because the church works outside of the five fold gift ministry, but then we have to realize that we have bought into the Cain school of theology. As we recall Cain did it his way instead of God's way. Here is the good news. We can fix it, but it takes repentance, which is far more than I am sorry, but also means we go in a different direction and that is where the problem is.
Are we willing to give up our stuff to walk in line with God and His will? Are we willing to give up unholy beliefs? I mean here we are and we are supposed to be leading people to the truth while we are hanging on to unholy beliefs and beliefs that are not even in scripture?
Of course Obama wants to wine and dine the church. He can't get elected without the church. It is the body of Christ that has the power and authority to put people into government or change what is there, which obviously takes more effort.
Here is the point. We all either get back to the basics or at the very least, drop all the stuff not in scripture or we continue on bringing destruction to everyone including ourselves, while here is the funny stuff, we get to ensure each other that salvation is eternal, even when we work for the government carrying on the works of the devil?
Have we fallen asleep so much that we can come on here and other places make good sounding noises convincing ourselves we are ok, when in actuality it is us causing the problems and still say we are representing the will of God? Really it is insanity and God remembers all of this stuff. The bigger picture and problem is what are we telling people salvation is?
Amen! Brother Phil
Thank you - words of wisdom. Dr Sarah Carrol
May I have your permission to post this on my board?
Hi sure welcome.
It looks as if the ill tidings of the first 'Ides of March' is repeating itself on another 'divine Caesar Augustus' of sorts, (President Obama), in the headlines today. It seems our modern day ruler of the free world, (PO), or 'Caesar', has fallen into the hands of his most ardent and trusted supporters/confidants, Brutus and Longinus or (aka, the liberal media/secularist agenda). The same 'deep pockets' constituency and radical ''ssm advocates' who drove a wedge between him and a 'teflon spiritual covering', as well as the 'orthodox' believers in the Black Church and the Body of Christ at large.
So beholden to the gays he refused to extend even the courtesy of meeting with the Coalition of AA Pastors upon his 'coming out for ssm' on May 12th. (Pres Clinton could have told him a thing or two about keeping old, black, uncompromising preachers near you in times of trouble.)
Caesar, believed to be beloved by all, has been met by 'brutal daggers' thrust into his unsuspecting heart by the ones he catered to the most; ("I am not the president of Black America.") These power brokers have 'turned on' him on his way to the Dem. Convention and general election in Nov. Question is, what favor/benefit/pint of flesh could he have possibly failed to render for these constant whiners and malcontents, these petulant children in the Democratic party to receive such an end? I am reminded of a great teacher who warned:
Matthew 7:6 - Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
And again, even more here:
This pic is from a liberal magazine. It appears PO is suitable 'cannon fodder' by the spoiled, self centered, God hating, hedonistic constituency of the Dem. party he 'bleed and (died???) for the last three years.
Saints, I don't know about you all, but I have not cease to mourn for PO and the road away from God he is traveling.
I love him but cant vote for him.
I learned this afternoon on the news that Obama was upset with VP Biden because Biden pushed his hand on the gay agenda thing.
He did what he did not want to do and that was to say same sex marriage was ok with him. He wasnt ready to go that far.
I wish he would have forgotten about trying to win the election and just fell on his sword and did not go along with it.
But I will pray that he repents before the election - otherwise I will stay home.
My Dear Brother:
Are there any words you have that can help some of our wounded hearts? We black Christians are being forced out of our party if we continue to put God first. Even the NAACP and some black preachers are compromising the word of God, the God of the Ages to be politically correct.
I also believe PO's hand was exposed by the divine providence of God; he said he knows the thoughts of men. PO was exposed because God wanted him exposed.
We all wish he would repent, but how can he without the gays tearing him to pieces? It would be so sneaky and conniving to hide his cards; and how could we ever have imagined him this way after a new next term? I had wondered if this 'gay agenda thing' was as bad as it seemed. I found out its worse than we all know.
What are they doing to us under our noses as Christians? We have better wake up, God will not hold us blameless when the truth is a link away.
Almost afraid to say this as I really hate being stoned more than once a week at least?
But am not sure why this has turned into a gay or black and white thing? If we don't like prejudice then maybe we shouldn't be prejudice?
What I mean is that for some reason we are thinking that Obama should give blacks more time or presence than other groups, yet we seem to expect it and when we do not get it we are thinking prejudice? Maybe we should be looking at God's will and not color of sin or sexual desires, but love all equally (maybe) and let God figure out to do with individuals instead of us having a black agenda or anit-gay agenda?
Now in saying that I really don't want to get hit with a lot of scripture telling me how wrong it is? Here is our choice. we either love or judge and if we judge then expect to be judged. Love is looking past sexual anything or color of skin.
Talking about the gay agenda does nothing more that promote the gay agenda? Go figure?
Here we are the leaders of the church spending time on the gay agenda? Sounds silly but that is what is happening.
If we do not like school systems, then stop talking about bad public schools and how to control public schools and start our own schools? A public school is horrible at best. We send our children to school to learn how to succeed in life? We are kidding ourselves but that is much easier than accepting responsibility for it and then doing something different. The public school system is based on equality. I think we tried to prove that in Brown vs The Board of Education. We wanted equality, we sorta got equality, but then we are now saying we do not want equality but our version of equality. Your kidding right?
With equality what we get is a gay agenda, witchcraft, Islam and host of other things. That is what equality is. Now if we do not like equality then lets stop saying we want equality. Lets face it we want to blame the school system for not teaching our children the right things and the responsibility for our children is first in the home and then in church. That really is the truth. We can either accept the truth and the bullet that goes with it or continue the blame game and with the blame game what comes of that is being a victim and if we still are victims, then where are we? That is not being victorious, but being victims?
Ok that was a little harsh, but if you think of it, it is true. What people want in reality is a Christian controlled white or black school system. Lets be honest and face it. We want to provide a bubble for people to live in to protect them from life. That is in us and not them. What we should be doing is training people and our children properly and quit thinking schools should do that for us?
A President is not going to do it for us. The congress will not, neither the senate or governors or police ( think probably everyone would agree with that), the DEA will not, nor the FBI or any other branch of the government. If we do not represent the love and will of God then it is the fault of the leadership of the church.
Ok that was the hard pill, but if we cannot get to the point of accepting it, then we cannot seek God for how to fix it and that is the solution. The rest of it is a waste of time, effort and money. It is in the hands of the church and a condition of each one of our hearts.
Ok lets try this again? How many here do not believe scripture? Of course everyone is going to say we do, then ok live it. It says we eat from the fruit of our lips and we all speak from our hearts or the condition of our hearts and the only one that can fix that is the Holy Spirit. So if we really really want to fix things we need to be seeking the Holy Spirit a lot more than we are. Not just us but the ones we have influence over as in our congregations or ministry.
Think if you will for a moment of how much time Jesus spent in prayer vs how much time we spend in prayer. No........... we know better, we would rather debate. What can we do about things? We can walk in love and unity or in agreement for whatever we agree to and touch in His name will be done. So how many are really standing together? How many are really standing together in love? That is why all of this is happening no other reason.
I think I missed the angle of this being an issue of race. But black leadership, our pastors, civil rights leaders, and even our President, are all accountable to God whether they own up to it or not. God expects our leaders to be righteous, so our nation and its people will be blessed.
" . . . Now in saying that I really don't want to get hit with a lot of scripture telling me how wrong it is? Here is our choice. we either love or judge - I'm sorry, but I was not aware that saints of God are actually burdened as you say by " being hit in the face with scripture, . .. What ELSE would we use? What are we weighing here then, OUR OWN OPINIONS OR SOCIETIES' OPINION AS BEING EQUAL TO OR REASONABLY ACCURATE WITH THAT OF GOD's?
I'm sorry,. but I don't want any part of a conversation such as this, dear Sister.
What we want in reality "is a Christian controlled white or black school system." Actually what would be wrong with a Christ-centered foundation for children other than someone else wouldn't agree. What is desirable and ideal is a school system that's not at war with God, calling wrong right,. and right wrong.
Secularism is a religion just as Christianity, atheism, polytheism, etc; all which seek to occupy its followers by sitting upon the 'high place', (men's minds and hearts). This throne belongs to God as our Creator. Surely, as an educated, and well versed Christian, (I suppose), you have no dispute with that reality?
The warped message of 'love is tolerance and acceptance" of whatever anyone wants to do is damnation to many a blind, 'spiritually dead' soul. Is God "a hater" now just because he declares he will return to judge all? Did he not say he 'wished that none perish', so all should come to the cross while there is yet time?'
Isn't 'love' wanting people to come to God and avoid damnation? Are sinners (or if you need a more 'politically correct' word, unbelievers), headed for hell any less because we are loathed to be accused of judging them? We should loathe to be accounted as cowards, dear sister, not loathe to bear witness to the Truth. Are they any less fitted for hell just because they don't think they're WRONG, or they don't believe in God or maybe don't believe God would one day be so angry, dogmatic or what's the 'talking point' word, JUDGEMENTAL, as to actually cast them into a lake of fire one day? The last New Testament book forewarns;
As you so aptly admonished us, . . "How many here do not believe scripture? Of course everyone is going to say we do, then ok live it. But isn't that what we are doing here as occupiers until he comes and as sojourners bound for another land? Or are we being cowered into silence for fear of labels such as 'bigots, hypocrites, homophobic, intolerant?'
We are commanded to speak his words, and declare his salvation to the world as salt and light. Not conform to the world, and there is no 'gray' in this command. I send you God's peace and wish you his blessing and boldness to preach his gospel of repentance and salvation to all. Remember what he said in,
Peace to you.
Sis. Dedre Simms said, "We are commanded to speak his words,"
Yes I would encourage you to speak His words. The point being go hear from Him and speak what He has to say. Of course your going to take it as that your supposed to go quote scripture, and if YOU believe scripture is true and your going to follow it and do what they did in scripture, find in scripture were Jesus told anyone to go out and quote scripture? Please really?
Please while you are at it find any scripture where Jesus said to go tell gays they are condemned to hell? I mean if your going to say that scripture is your guide then let scripture be your guide and do exactly what Jesus did. Jesus came first for the church and scripture by the way is mostly for believer and not the non-believer. So when we go back in the OT and it talks about what we think of as homosexual activity it was written for the Jews and yes feel free to apply it to your life. That is a fine thing, that was not written to go out there and tell gays they are sinners, because it leads people to believe that YOU are without sin.
Now if you are without sin, then yes please speak about sin and how bad it is. You can't and no one can, because it clearly says also that if we say we have no sin we make Him a liar and the truth is not in us. You and or I or anyone does not have a right to say this one sins or that one is in sin. In fact if God shows you someone is in sin, your supposed to pray for them that they may see the light. If someone sins against you, you are to go to an elder of the church as a witness if you can not resolve it with the person directly. That is your recourse.
No where in scripture does it say to quote scripture at people, so if you say you believe in scripture; wonderful follow it, do it, but that does not give you the right or me or anyone the right to go pick up a Bible and start preaching in the park or anywhere else for that matter. Yes people come to Christ and fall away because no one is there to raise the children properly so which is a worse sin? Sure we get to stand before God and yes we will be judged, but what He cares about and if we are His people, is raising the babies.
Prison ministry is a horrible thing to watch for the most part. Preachers and good people that mean well come in and tell people they are sinners and going to hell. Like dah they don't know they are messed up? I mean takes a real idiot not to get that one? So they accept Christ and look to their Spiritual parents who led them to Christ, come to find out that the love to raise them or even communicate with them is not there.
It's sort of the same thing when we are talking about gays in here? Why talk about it? You do cause it makes you feel like your doing something. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. It is easier to talk about Obama and gays instead of the things we should be talking about. Now that is not meant as a put down and I really am not trying to be offensive, I am trying to reach out with love and really trying to explain this and why it is so important you not talk about gays.
You have the power to loose and bind. You do so with your lips and when you talk about gays your binding them in what they are doing. When we talk about a persons sin we praise the sin. What we should be talking about is what God is saying to you and if He is not talking to you directly you should wait on Him and listen and be still and wait to hear from Him, because He is still talking today, but not many are taking the time to listen, They do however go to a lot of Bible studies.
Are Bible studies bad? Of course not, but it is just the beginning. Not until recently did we even have a Bible. In the New Testament which some monk put together thinking it started with Matthew, the New Covenant really started in Acts Chapter 2. From that point on it was the Holy Spirit that lead them to write what they did, but they were letters to the churches they started for them most part looking at Paul's letters. They are not complete, because no one knows what Paul said when he came into town. He didn't have scrolls or Torah. All he had was the Holy Spirit and in truth that is all we have and that is what we should be sharing with each other. When we hear from the Holy Spirit that is part of our testimony and that is really what we have to share, the rest of it is beliefs and all beliefs are second best to the real thing.
Today in most churches congregations employee pastors and pastors work really hard to find something fresh to talk about, so they study and study and study some more just in case they missed something, but that is not how it works in the real deal, we lead by example. Pastors are not leading by example but are hidden behind church walls. It happens that way because no one wants to go up the mountain to face God directly as Moses did, but we are actually all called to go up the mountain, leaving everything behind and listen; I mean honestly few if any are preaching that?
You see it is the same Spirit that works in me to write what I do as the Spirit that was in Paul and the same Spirit you have and the reason people should be following you is not because you can quote scripture or have great opinions, it is because you hear from God. If they are following you for any other reason you will lead them astray somewhere. That is not to pick on you, but that is what happens and it happens all the time.
Not to be offensive, but you came here to tell me we are not supposed to conform to the world where there is no "gray", is because you figured I needed to hear that, like I didn't know that. I knew that already. That comes from a dominate spirit a spirit that feels that it is over others as you are better than others. It comes from knowledge.
I mean I send you God's peace? Really? You have any idea how that sounds?
You seem to think that you are here to teach and preach what is right and wrong? The point of it all is to be the example and if we sin, then forgive people because we too are putzes. As I said before it is not that I am getting on you, but trying to offer a hand out of love.