I wonder would satan have succeeded in the garden, if Eve were not alone. Folks, have you notice that satan, the serpent did not go after Eve and Adam while they were together, while they were united in fellowship. 

Why did he wait until Eve was alone, does that mean satan is afraid of unity. Can it be that unity could prove to be satan's downfall? Do you think there is a deliberate move from satan to keep God's people divided even within the churches, within our doctrine?

Today, it seem not only is unity under attack but the word of God is also under attack, just as in the garden of Eden where satan deliberately attack the word of God by placing doubt in Eve on what God had commanded, people it would seem today satan is still attacking God's word by keeping people so occupied they choose not to spend time in the word but if we go back to the beginning we ought to see the importance that satan place on casting doubt on God's word, we ought to see how cowardly he was in moving in on Eve only when she was alone.

So today are we letting satan succeed by not standing together in unity, by us thinking that what God so declare is no longer valid but more important are we allowing satan to win by our failure to study Gods word. 

Come on people of God let us wake up and consider the road and remember that there are many who are declaring Lord, Lord but who will not get recognition could it be that knowing Gods word and unity will play a large path to getting on the narrow path.

The thought suddenly come to me and I am wondering, well food for thought maybe.

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Complicated subject and in your sentence there is a lot said, "So today are we letting satan succeed by not standing together in unity, by us thinking that what God so declare is no longer valid but more important are we allowing satan to win by our failure to study Gods word."

Yes Satan wants us divided. We can do all things through Christ if we see that Christ has two parts; first the head and secondly is the body of Christ. To prove the point. So can we do all things through Jesus or can we do all things through Christ? Many tend to believe we can do all things through Jesus, which sounds good and is a teaching, which becomes and attitude, "me and Jesus," type attitude, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. For example we cannot reach all people on earth with the "me and Jesus" attitude. In fact I get really tired after working 20 hours a day a few days in a row, so it is at least impossible for me to reach all people and then again I do not have all the power that Jesus did, but the body of Christ has all the power that He did. So for the most part the scripture which tells us "that we can or I can do all things through Christ," is really saying that there are two parts, the head and the body. 

Scripture is sort of clear when it says whatever we do even to the least of these we do unto Him, but for some reason most do not apply that to the body of Christ. A few get it, but most do not understand that how we show our love for Jesus is by how we love one another, which includes loving our enemy as ourselves. I am totally amazed at the restraint, which by the way is the real definition of meekness that Michael showed toward Satan. Michael could have blasted Satan and I would think most believers would also blast Satan for various reasons. I would be the human thing to do, but from the spiritual aspect to blast Satan would be in error for several reasons, the first being that Satan or Lucifer was created by God, so if Michael had blasted Satan, he also would be blasting God and Michael has a clear respect for God, which we all should have, which brings us to the discussion on maturity, which to my understanding can only come through the five fold gift ministry so we can be neatly fit together (love and unity). 

So why is it that we want to work outside of the five fold gift ministry? What is it in us that wants to do it our own way? I mean we can study the word till the cows come home, but studying the word is not going to help if we are not resolved to doing and living the word and that means all concepts in the word? Our safety net, according to scripture ( I really don't like calling the Bible the Word of God as scripture clearly says that Jesus is and was the Word even in the beginning and does not say the Bible is the Word of God), is the five fold gift ministry for through the five fold gift ministry we no longer will be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and the second great purpose for the five fold gift ministry is so that we will be neatly fit together (love and unity). Knowing that I really cannot grasp why anyone works outside of God's safety net that is provided for us? Blows my mind totally, but it is done every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Why does this stuff plague the body of Christ and continue to do so? Why is Satan allowed to bring division in? One answer might be at least that we seem to feel that Satan is the one who creates the division, when in actuality it us us that has division in us and it is pride that keeps us from seeing that. We like fluffy messages as that is more fun than the truth, which is often times difficult to swallow, but it is the truth that sets us free, but we all feel as if we have the truth, which is why we do what we do. We all do what we do, because we are right in our own minds, that is if we walk in the flesh? The problem is that we believe we are walking in the Spirit often times and we are really walking in the flesh. One of the reasons is that we are to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, but if one is working outside of the Holy Spirit, then how can one baptize in the Holy Spirit? 

Why does this stuff continue to happen and drive people like me nuts? OK a little humor there, but it is true it drives me nuts. It happens when we work outside of the five fold gift ministry, because we believe inside that all are born again and even in the book of Acts we find people that were believers and not born again believers. In Acts chapter two we find the first born again people. So a good question at that point is why is it that most do not have the experience that they had in Acts chapter two? After all it is the same Spirit? So we should have that type of experience somewhere along the line, but we find that it does not happen as we are not able to right divide the Word of Truth which is not the Bible, but Jesus. Often times we read into things in scripture that are not even there, but we read into them anyway? "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

We read into that verse that all are sons of God that have received Him, even the ones that believe on His name, but that is not what it says, it says that we have the power to become sons of God, but it does not make one automatically a son of God, What makes us His children or son of God are two things; the first is that we are led by the Spirit of God and the second is we are peacemakers. If one is led by the Spirit of God then one will not start wars. Wars are an amplification of division. 

When we add things to scripture and that is a small example there are many examples that could be mentioned, we come out with a totally different gospel. Something that was never intended and it does happen for several reasons, but most of which is we all have a choice to do things the way we think is best or do things God's way, but most think they are doing it God's way, even though they are not. When we do not do it God's way then the end result will be totally different and all of us needs to learn that really quick, because that is why thing are happening out there, that are happening. It is a result of the body of Christ, doing it, our own way. It happens because somewhere we have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which allows us to decide what is good and what is Evil, which does now and always has brought, division, destruction and death, the problem is we do not believe it. 

At one time, back in the book of Acts they did things totally different than they are done today. First none of them had a Bible. What they did was they sought God a whole lot more than what people do today. If we were told to go to the upper room to wait for the comforter, my bet is that most people would bring their Bibles. I know that sounds terrible for me to say that, let alone write it and PLEASE do not get me wrong, I do not have a problem with the Bible as it is a start or it is the finish depending on which church one goes to. The Bible is viewed at by many churches as the Word of God, even though scripture tells us that the Word is Jesus. The end result is the relationship or lack of relationship, when the focus is the Bible and not Jesus. To those that have the relationship with Jesus, the Bible is just a start, that leads one to Jesus and God, but for many, the Bible has replaced the Holy Spirit, where people turn to the Bible instead of seeking God for His will. 

It happens because we use the word Christian for example, which sounds like we are representing God, but that is not what happens a lot of times. One sent from God and those of God ALWAYS represent God's love and will and Christians are not required to represent the love and will of God. It is a big difference one sent of God or those that are Christians. I realize this sounds terribly offensive and I do apologize with everything that is in me as it is not my intent to offend anyone. We in the US that is, elect presidents that call themselves Christians as we are led to believe that Christians will represent the love and will of God. We in the flesh like to be vague so we use words that are intentionally vague and Christianity and the word Christian is intentionally vague. To prove the point, everyone has a different definition of what a Christian is or how one becomes a Christian, but what is clear, but no one reads it in scripture, it is put in as we read it as we are led to believe that only Christians will make it to heaven, but scripture says that NO where. It is all about being of God, sent from God and always about representing the love and will of God, which is not required to do, to be a Christian. 

So we all gather to say we hate division, but we practice division when we use words that mislead or are vague. In the Old Testament they had Judaism which is and was a religion and today we have Christianity which is also a religion. In the Old Testament and in the New Testament they had the truth and so do we, but we either turn it into a religion or accept it as it was meant to be, which was a personal relationship with God. In the OT it was about putting your trust and life into God's hands and it is the same thing in the NT, but what happens because of man and the flesh is that it turns into religious traditions. In the OT man created a lot of rules and it is what has happened in the NT all calling it godly, but is like verse I mentioned, which is just one verse, John 1:12. We want to believe that by simply accepting Jesus that we become sons of God, but scripture clearly says that what it takes is to be led by the Spirit of God. 

In that regard many things have been added including holidays, such as Christ Mass and Easter, but because of that many churches even allow in Halloween. You see Christianity at large celebrates Christmas and Easter, which are both based on pagan principles. The tree in Christmas came from the penis and the wreath represents a vagina. In Easter the cute bunnies are all about fertility and it was changed in Christianity from Passover to Easter. Passover is a real holiday. Jesus is our Passover no doubt, but not Easter. 

So yes we can have more studies to study the Bible, but if the leaders that are doing the leading still remain then what happens is the rest of it comes in. These things happen as we do not any longer stand for the truth and one of the bigger truths are that Jesus had all power and authority in heaven and earth and the bride in the grooms absence carries the same power and authority as the Groom, which takes us all the way back to Adam and Eve. Eve was created from Adam, which made them one. Eve carried Adams blood. Eve when she went out on her own was also representing Adam. The question is today, does the bride, which comes from the same blood as Jesus carry the same authority to represent the groom in all things? That again also is a belief one way or the other, but certainly is the reason why today there is a form of godliness without the power and why today men call things good today, which are really evil and evil things good.  

Well, yes and no. Assuming someone is led to Christ, it really depends on who is leading the person to Christ. I retain the belief that the person or people leading one to Christ are somewhat like Spiritual parents and depending on where the parents are, will depend on how the child will turn out? It is like parents in the flesh, where some are horrible, some ok and some are good parents that will teach the child properly, which was the case with Timothy. He grew up around people that were taught properly so they could pass along whatever they did pass along to Timothy so he could grow. 

Babies are babies spiritual or in the flesh, they are cute, eat a lot and need a lot of attention if the parent takes them seriously and their responsibility to the child seriously and takes God seriously as to their responsibility to God. Scripture is rather clear when it says "they will know that you are mine by your love one for the other," and while most people are impressed with certain teachers or pastors or evangelists or even those that can raise the dead, does not mean they belong to Jesus. So today in the church you have a wide variety of people, that do a lot of teaching or book writing and a lot of other things, all influencing new born believers. It is insane to say to a child in the flesh, ok your born now go take care of yourself, and although I realize it happens, it is not a good thing and the same with the body of Christ and new born's.  I mean just because the are old enough or sound good, doesn't mean they have the common sense to come out of the rain and as a counselor I can say one of the biggest problems in the body is people have not been brought up properly and then people wonder why believers run a muck? 

So yes one can have a lot of Bible studies even from well intention-ed people, but that doesn't mean they should be a Bible teacher. Galatians 6:6 tells us we should share all good things with our teachers, but in reality that is not the practice of the church in general to pay teachers, which they should. I mean one hopefully gets what they pay for, which explains why people have gone to church for their whole lives and never lived anything, but can quote scripture back and forth. 

Then there is the question of being filled with the Holy Spirit and if the person is actually a teacher in the five fold gift ministry and if they are not they probably should not be teaching, but that is not what happens. In a majority of the churches out there they are not a part of the five fold gift ministry and often times have had no training to teach and in too many cases not filled with the Holy Spirit and if that is the case then what can the student hope to learn? This is the way it is, but the church is responsible to God to teach people properly and if they do not then they will answer to God for it. If the church took the responsibility of teaching as being responsible to God for the outcome of the student, there would be a whole lot better teachers in churches today.

Good grief in some Sunday school classes they actually make Halloween figures.  

In the body of Christ one is either part of the problem or are part of the solution in how to deal with what is happening out there and their role to help turn it around. Many churches even teach things like for example that because it is in the Bible it is God's will, which tells people that God can do evil? Dah.... In addition to all of that there are millions of books on Christianity and everyone has a different story as to what Christianity is or what it does or what a Christian is supposed to do if anything.

So if the leaders in the church stay the same, then it is not likely the students on their own will be better than the teachers. It is possible, but not likely? Look at the different denominations and what they teach or do not teach? Your statement suggests that everyone is responsible for what they learn, if I am understanding your comment? If that is true then there is no need for teachers or the five fold gift ministry?  That is part of what I am saying. God has a way to make things happen and He has a way for people to grow to maturity so we can stand neatly fit together, but if scripture is true and correct then the only way it will happen is through the five fold gift ministry. So bottom line is we all can do things our own way which is what Cain did or we do things God's way.  

First off, but 2 Timothy 3:15 says And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:15 I think is the scripture you are looking for, but even with that when Paul wrote his letter to Timothy, what is it that you think Timothy had to study? The Bible had not been created at that point? What the scripture was talking about I believe as there was no Bible at that point goes more in line with this interpretation of the verse " 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth."


It was talking more about being diligent to present yourself approved by God a workman. The Word of truth leans more towards Jesus being the Word, and what it is saying is spend time with Jesus and learn. Walk it, be the Word. It is like the phrase walking the talk. Everyone can say whatever they say, but one either walks in it or they do not. For example many believe in the church that what is ins the Bible is all God's will, but it takes time to know His will and to know who God is and if we know God personally then we also know that not everything in the Bible is God's will. 

It is like the scripture that says "faith comes by hearing and hearing comes from the Word." Most people take that to mean faith comes by hearing the Bible, but when it was written again there was no Bible and when Jesus talks to you it is a faith builder, so faith comes by hearing Jesus or God or being led by the Holy Spirit, because it is not possible when that was written that they even knew there was going to be a Bible. 

Then again not all voices one hears is from God and it takes time to know what is from God and what is not from God? That is what it is talking about rightly dividing the Word of Truth or at least that is what I get out of it. 

I mean why write all the books that people seem to write? Yes to make money, but it influences people and people are led by those books all the time. Further more in cross reference we find Peter in 2 Peter 1:10 (NASB95)

10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;

He is saying that you cannot stumble of you practice being diligent about ones calling and God choosing you for that calling. Most churches do not even teach that God has a plan for everyone or even how to find God's plan let alone walk in His plan. So all I am saying is there is a lot to rightly dividing the word of truth, which goes far beyond what is put in the Bible. For example we are supposed to be living epistles, which is the Word, not because of us but because the Word dwells in us, not just because we have read the Bible. 

So my first comment was based on 2 Timothy 3:15 where Timothy had an advantage over most as he grew up with the truth and now that we are on the same page with the same verse, I do not believe that Paul knew there was even going to be a Bible when he wrote the letter to Timothy so he could not have been saying study to show yourself approved unto God ..... by studying the Bible which is how most read that particular scripture and again it shows why people need good teachers?

Sarah , 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approve, is not really up for debate, the word of God is pretty clear there we cannot blame someone else for not knowing what the word of God says, there are ample indication in the word which directs us to know the word, to study the word and to discern who and what  gives us food and the food that we are being fed so there is a lot of responsibility placed on the individual to ensure they study the word. There is an awful amount of warnings giving to us about false teahers and prophets so we have no excused in allowing ourselves to be deceived.

The word of God is truth and the truth will set us free, therefore satan has no conceivable reason to teach the truth because he knows that the truth is powerful so why would he want us to have that power, therefore it behooves us if we want to be free to know the truth. The devil will always teach a lie and that same lie if we believe it will be our downfall, because when you are deceived into believing a lie you are thus unable to see the truth so you accept and commit to the lie which lead us away from the way of God and in the end that lie will damn us. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12  

Anyone who blindly follow another without question and accept things blindly without testing is in serious problem. So don't think leaders will take all the punishment for peoples studipity they wont, they will be punished for their own unrighteousness as everyone will for theirs.

refer 2 Timothy 2:15

I, Sisterhood Wombman Queendom, have learned from long ago before the Bible came into play is the Africans were intelligent and always consulted their partner before taking action.  That islove and unity; it worked! 

The Bible speaks of Love and if we Love one another as God says, this world would be a better place to live. For we all have God in us, we must do the right thing.  Step out of your comfort zone and reach out. let not your heart be harden. 

Love and Unity is the key! 

Not sure where your response fits in with the questions Diane Friday, probably you could elaborate as Adam and Eve were the first people and until they ate from the fruit I am not convince they could have been classed as intelligience as it was the eatig of the fruit I assume which brought intelligience to them as it was the act of eating the fruit which opened their eyes. Would you not say up to the moments before the eating of the fruit they were innocence rather than intelligience

This matter happened after the fall of Satan or Lucifer. He was in charge of (SOUND). HIS FALL AND CREATING OF MAN WAS TO COMPLETELY PROVE THAT A NATURAL MAN COULD LIVE BY,TRUTH, LOVE, FAITHFULNESS, JUDGMENT, MERCY and RIGHTEOUSNESS. Where was Adam when the serpent beguiled Eve. Adam was in charge of naming and learning. Eve was also in her, "what to do and learn state." She was vulnerable because of her makeup with a certain tenderness that can be exploited. Satan knew that and exploited it. Jesus would eventually fix it and did so.

Sorry Elder, you lost me a bit on your response when you say Adam was in charge of naming and learning when the sepent beguiled Eve, I have got to ask you what was Adam naming and learning at the time of the fall and could you state which book, chapter and verse of the Bible that specify the function that you stated Adam and Eve were doing at the time of the  satan visit as this would aid my groweth. 

I did not understand your comment 'HIS FALL AND CREATING OF MAN WAS TO COMPLETELY PROVE THAT A NATURAL MAN COULD LIVE BY,TRUTH, LOVE, FAITHFULNESS, JUDGMENT, MERCY and RIGHTEOUSNESS. Can you please elaborate, I do understand and know that satan in a previous dispensation was in heaven as the cherish cherbuim, praise and worship leader, who attained to be higher than God and that got him kicked out or evicted from aboding in heaven but not from having visitation rights and that through jealousy of God he will do everything in his power to in his attempt to get what he thinks he deserve.  However, my understanding is satan was an angel and not a human so not sure what or how creating man was to be a proof of anything again please if you could produce the book chapter and verse as part of your explaination to aid my understand I would be most grateful. Thank you

When it comes to conflicts and even divisionss in the church, it is normal because among other things, irritability is a characteristic of living things and the church - the body of Christ - is LIVING!

Early in Acts 6.1 we see conflict which required a practical administrative intervention under the Spirit's guidance. The work of the Holy Spirit in admitting the gentiles into the body led to conflict. It is noteworthy that James, standing in the ministry office of the pastor of the Jerusalem church and on the authority of God's written word (Acts 15.15) was able to lay the issue to rest.

Between study and being led by the Spirit, this is my take: the realm of the spirit is an endless, borderless universe and one can easily get lost in it without the compass of THE WRITTEN SCRIPTURE - because there are many spirits and many voices. May I also point out that as an extension of the Holy Spirit's mandate of leading us into truth, He has set the 5 fold ministry offices over the church to provide equipping and guidance. This does not replace personal study.

God bless you all.

The word of God is so important that without it we might as well say we are like the house which is built on the sand when the wind came along it blew it away and it fell so it is without the word of God we are the same because a bad spirit comes along and render us useless if we do not know or if we are uncertain of the word of God that is what happened in the garden that is how men fell the eating of the fruit was just the icing on the cake, the doubting of Gods word is how satan got Eve she had not studied and he was able to twisted up her mind in confusion over what God actually said.  Lack of knowledge and understanding of Gods word allow the evil one to confuse us so without the word of God a believer reggardless of the position they hold are as unstable as a house which has been builded on the sand and which after it rains all the wind had to do was blow and the house fall.  Let us study, study otherwise we are doomed to repeat the same mistake as Adam and Eve.

Also with that thought I seem to remember somewhere that how we show our love to God is by how we show our love one to the other?  We are all great preachers and teachers and it seems we seem to feel that is what love, teaching and preaching? Only reason I mention that is because that is mostly what I see happening, teaching and preaching. 

It is important to agree on the basics, like maybe what salvation is, which is something obviously different before as it says we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, while we today state emphatically what it is like we know better right? 

But putting that aside which is an important issue, one of the key components to unity is love and it needs to be like how the Roman army went to war as they literally locked arms with each other before they went into battle. It was so the enemy could not get in-between any of the soldiers. Read somewhere that some died on the line and were carried through the battle which is how close they were to each other. 

So we all know something is around the corner and while there seems to be some debate whether standing in faith means its going to happen or standing in the faith that we can do something about it, delay it or even put it off until the next generation and of course each generation would have to be taught how to delay what will happen, much like what was not taught in Nineveh? Nineveh was doomed as you recall and so is this planet, but Nineveh repented turned to God and Nineveh stood another 120 years before it was destroyed as they went back to their old ways. So if God is the same then, He is the same today and will do the same thing for us. 

But back to this concept of love? We all say we love God, but seem never to getting around to loving each other or even walking with each other. But the other point is we deceive ourselves by thinking we love God when we really are not loving each other. 

I know everyone things we love one another, we love God as much as we love each other. If that is true, we are in a world of hurts. Honest! Really. 

Maybe we should be asking each other far more than we are currently if the one we are asking feels as if we love them? I mean really is supposed to be so simple a child can get this stuff, yet we have all these brainy people wandering around doing what brainy people do? Is that love? If it is not then we Honestly need to repent and get this thing right? 


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