2 Corinthians 4:2, "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."
2 Corinthians 4:7, "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."
1 Thessalonians 1:5-, "For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. "
1 Thessalonians 2:13, "For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
2 Timothy 2:15-21, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
Also read Hebrew 13 (emphasis: verses 7-17)
AFTER reading all of the scriptures, what is your answer - are you taught by man or by the Holy Ghost?
I understood EVERYTHING you stated.
Personally, I don't want to be under NO MAN who has not been through anything in life.
How can you tell me of the goodness if you haven't had your back up against a wall?
Too many saints are being deceived by this "new age" Christianity where everything it perfect and God gives you all you WANT and need- that is the thinking of the apostate church- NOT God's TRUE church.
We have too many people teaching and preaching half the Word and not teaching and preaching the WHOLE Word.
You stated in your reply, " I also will only go to a doctor that is board certified and not some person off the street that says that he/she is a doctor." What happens when man's educational training is not enough? What happens when you go to the doctor and man's medical training and knowledge falls short of your healing?
The next stop will be to look for someone who knows God. Many people will run to counterfeit gods (healers) when medical science is unable to remedy or cure their sickness. Sitting here watching the culinery (artists) learned on "Top Chef", is a degreed chef's food better than a Louisiana cajun grandma's downhome cooking? One has a degree and the other does not.
I eat at $100 plus per plate restaurants that don't add up to downhome cooking. The culinary chef basically adds a visual appealing dish that is decorated with garnish, colors and presentation. Is seminary school a whole lot of presentation?
My point is that when textbooks fail, when man's limited scope of knowledge and understand fails, you turn to the Spirit (God) for an answer. I believe that seminary training is good but it is not a replacement for someone who God has called and who has never attended seminary. When textbooks fail and you need a healing, you are going to go to the man or woman that you know operates with the power of the Holy Spirit seminary trained or not.
Many people will go to a street mechanic who has a proven reputation for being able to repair a vehicle. The dealership has a tendancy to "jack you" for all they can get. The street mechanic has learned from his father, this education has been passed down from generation to generation. It seems that God is a proponent of the parents teaching their children about God. Are the parents teaching the children in error if they do not have a seminary education? The parents are the ministers of their home who have been called by God to lay down biblical truth and promote spiritual matters.
What in the world are you talking about! Your question lacks logic for the very reason you keep putting down training in the first place. By this I understand that you believe in healing and that this is an active gift today! IF you answer yes to this statement; than are you willing to accept God ultimate healing?
You see ultimate healing is to be in the present of God! So when you say that: “man's medical training and knowledge falls short of your healing?” to me I understand that man is not the final answer God is; but that still does not mean that the lady in the back of the corner store that says she is a doctor and people go to her and pay her money to performer a medical service and then die that; her training was not enough! The woman in the above story had no medical training and was lying about having it and some poor fool lost their life because of her. This happen in Houston last month!
Your third point is off as well. If I owned one of the top of the line cars than there is no way on earth I will allow a person that has never worked on or been train to worked on touch my car! That is just not very smart to me. I mean if you owned a Rolls-Royce Phantom or Bentley you do not take that to a person under a tree! If pastoral care is important, if expository preaching is important if the proper understanding of the Whole Bible (I mean the Unity of the Bible) is important to you than one must be train to uses the right tools in ministry!
I take it that you do not own a $100,000 or even a $50,000 dollar automobile. Have you ever changed your oil yourself, have you ever had a mechanic who was not certified work on your automobile? You failed to comment on the culinary chef example that I mentioned.
You failed to specifically comment on my statement, " It seems that God is a proponent of the parents teaching their children about God. Are the parents teaching the children in error if they do not have a seminary education? The parents are the ministers of their home who have been called by God to lay down biblical truth and promote spiritual matters." I believe that this is of paramount importance to my previous post.
The medical example is to simply stretch your aptitude and understanding. Ultimately man will turn to God (Holy Spirit) for an answer when their education fails, when they need an answer to a question which they are unable to solve. Can we agree? Again, I reiterate that I am not against seminary and have attended seminary in the past.
Hope you had a blessed Sunday.
Again, you are the only one on BPN who promotes seminary as the primary qualification for seminary. Other seminary graduates don't support your opinion. You attack everyone who does not feel the same way you do. This shows your immaturity as a so-called minister. You are like an old child.
You are right I do not own a car worth a 100,000.00 and the car I do own is the one I bought for me and my family. So that dog does not hunt, As for me changing my own oil! NO! I have not. It not because I can't I can and know how to do so well. It is because the ASE Shop I take my car to the mechanic is trained to work on my car. He knows it much better that I do. because he has been equiped to spot things that I can't.
The reason I did not answer you question about parents is because it is not a good question. so I will not answer that one.
The church and ministry is the only area were people say that they need no training in order to serve. Sad!
It is easy to bypass questions that are of paramount importance and fundamental to the doctrine of teaching. No problem.
If God commanded the parents to teach the children and they are not seminary trained, are they teaching in error? The parents were your first ministers and are to train the children before the church (pastor).
I guess you have never changed a tire either? Leave it to the professionals is your premise.
"Second you presuppose that the only way that the pastor/preacher is prepared for ministry is to undergo some form of hard ship again this is not true!"
Are you serious in making this statement?!
Surely I must not be understanding this completely so explain to me what you meant by this statement?!
My friend notice that I said that it was not the “only way to be prepared for ministry”…..which presupposes that there are other aspects by which are used in harmony together by the Holy Spirit to prepare a man for ministry.
I believe that God uses all that a person’s is (personality, education, mentorship, discipleship, family background...) when He calls a man into ministry! I also see and believe that we black preachers seek out what I like to call self-fulfilling prophecy. What I mean here is that we want to have a personal encounter with God and we want to hear His voice and so the preacher/pastor with the best testimony is view as being the more spiritual/spiritually mature. "I was on drugs and He brought me out!" "I ran woman and he brought me out!" Yet we never hear "I love my wife by the power of His love!"
I do not believe that God only calls a man that has just been released from prison.
Also as every black preacher I know in Houston, (those without biblical training) seems to say “I did not want to preach, I ran from God, just like Jonah.”
What! I hear this every time a man preaches their first sermon, and biblically this just does not add up. Jonah was already a preacher/prophet for God; notice the text says “the word of the LORD came to Jonah son of Amittai.
So you see Jonah was already God’s preacher/prophet…I do understand that our experiences are used by God through Holy Spirit in order to do in us what we are unable to do for ourselves preparation for ministry. It is not that our trials/test are the sum total of our ministry preparation. As I said before seminary is a part of the process but not the sum total of the process.
I see alot of big words thrown around but I see nothing about the Holy Spirit!!!
Do we not believe in that anymore?!