A member recently informed me that she would not partake nor attend holy communion if a female minister were assisting me with this sacred sacrament.  I believe that the issue isn't with a woman serving communion but with a woman walking and serving in a particular leadership capacity within the institution.  My question: What are your thoughts concerning female preachers and pastors?

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My Brother the problem is this we have too many of us worried about being reglious instead of religion. God I going to use who is open to accept the job. So if the men won't answer then women take you place.

I do believe doctrines (religion) do place barriers up and that Christ came to knock down the middle wall of partition but what are ways that we can dialogue about this subject as well as its implications?  Scripturally, both sides of the argument are present. As a Pastor, my job is to protect sheep and guide them.  How do I handle this situation tactfully?

Greetings Rev. Everett:

Please prayerfully seek God's Word on this.  Leadership has laid its role down for far too long on the opinions and thoughts of others.  God's thoughts are not our thoughts and in a leadership role and questions should be directed to the one who put them in charge.  It is in His WORD, believe me, He has not left leaders unequipped for the position He has placed them in.  Leaders has succumed to the world's way of doing things, because they have succumed to worldly people opinions and thoughts.

When you study the scripture...is there a different DOCTRINE that Christ speak?  Matt. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.  As a Reverend I ask you, what is JESUS's Doctrine?  You say, scripturally both sides of the argument are present....and where is that argument?  Gods' Word is precise and He says what He means and means what He say.  When we go to John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 

We know that Jesus' Doctrine was to do the Will of the Father...OBEY .... obedience.  Jesus teaching His diciples and the multitudes referenced the laws...the laws given to Moses by God, which Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. and Matt. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  So where is the argument when in the beginning God created man then woman for his help meat.  There is non scriptural arguments of women being in leadership roles, when it is plain scripturally they are in roles that God himself has placed them in to bring about His end results.  See, I have problem with women usurping a man.  Leadership is God, Man, Woman and children and then beast.  What manner of logic is used when a woman is in leadership roles and say God then who Her, then her husband, children then beast?  What logic is used when a Woman is Pastor and her husband is what?  When we disobey God, like in the beginning, when man was not in his place and woman was beguiled by the serpent....God said in Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between they seed and her seed; it shall bruise they head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.  Woe to us, who follow false DOCTRINES, because if we follow Christ, we would all be OBEYING God and His WORD.  Scripture is so GOOD for us, but because it CORRECTS us in ways we don't want, we don't agree with its literal sayings and statements.  My thing is God said it, I believe it and that settles it for me.  Even though cuts like a two edge sword and hurts, I know it is for my good if I want to see Him face to face eternally.  They say no one is perfect, but God says different.  He says we can do it....Gen. 3:22 and Rev. 22 1-21

Now, search the scriptures and be steadfast in prayer, because if God brought you to it, He will bring you through it.  You need not get fleshly opinions for spiritual guidance.  The scripture is there and if you don't like what it is saying, then maybe God isn't in it, because He is TRUE TO HIS WORD and He changes it for no one.

I have so much scripture I could share with you, but you have it yourself YOUR BIBLE, it is there, just take it for what it says and don't add or take nothing from it and watch God.  Don't get caught up in how others feel, it is not a feeling it is OBEDIENCE to God....sound DOCTRINE.

In love Sister Denise

Hi Sis Denise,

My reply on doctrines presenting both sides of the argument about women in leadership is very valid.  Here's the argument for women in leadership:  Among those serving in leadership with the establishing of institutional churches, women were present (Acts 16). Among those serving in leadership co-laboring and judging Israel, women were present (Judges 4:5). Among those serving in the servant leadership roles within temples as oracle (Prophet/Prophetess) of God, women were certainly present (Luke 2:36-37 /Judges 11:30-40).  So God's doctrine (His word) has women in servant leadership positions.  The bible  rejects women in certain leadership roles but keeping it in context, its speaking pastorally as well as relationally (1 Tim 3; 1 Tim 2:12). Thus both sides of the argument are presented. ****smiles****

I do not want you to be confused about my wording. I have not given my own personal preference or theological stance on the matter but am asking everyone for their thoughts in the thread. Its a clever way to engage others in dialogue without pushing my own personal beliefs as the framework of the discussion.

I believe the issue presented was women serving in leadership roles and as as result, I wanted to hear others thoughts on the matter. I then asked for your thoughts on female preachers and pastors. Feelings don't matter. God be true, but every man a liar (Rom 3:4).

Scripture does not state who can serve communion. It states who can receive communion and how often the act itself should occur. The problem that I was presented with was with a member not wanting another member (who is ordained and female) to serve communion.  I hope things brings clarity.

Good Evening Rev. Everett:

Graciously receiving your reply and no disrespect to your original post.  I was just saying, dialoging to your post.  The word argument just was a little strong to my taste as to what the Word has to say about any role, because the Word is clear as to roles.  Eph. 4:11-16 clearly states that and the Word clearly states that we are all to be ministers of the Gospel.  But, when you say leadership, which has been described as "a process of social influence in which one person can enlist the aid and support of others in the accomplishment of a common task.  For example, some understand a leader simply as somebody whom people follow, or as somebody who guides or directs others, while others define leadership as "organizing a group of people to achieve a common goal".  Now scripture refer to leader/leaders only a few times, but you referenced 1 Tim 3, which is WORD, you only referenced 1 Tim 2:12, but 1 Tim 2:14 states "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression".  But the entire chapter speaks volumes.  It is plain, can say well it meant this or it meant that....it make it plain.  Rev. 2: 1-17, but 2: 18-29 speaks directly to the churches of today.  We can say noooooo it does, but then we say out of the same mouth His word is the same yesterday, today and forever...which is it?  Leadership roles are that which man has allowed and have made a rule upon God's house and like Jesus did back in the day of turning over tables....Lord Have Mercy He is coming with His reward and He tell us that.  I find it very interesting that Rev. 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.  Isn't taken seriously by the church/body of Christ.  We all have gotten out of line, out of our position and now we shall see that God is true to His word. 

I am not confused by what you have written, nor the questions asked, but until Pastors, Ministers, Reverends, Evangelist, Preacher etc. start preaching the Gospel, which is what the WORD actually says and mean, we will continue to come up with bright ideas which will take us from what the Word truly is stating and lead us down the path of unrighteousness which is DISOBEDIENCE to God which is His Word.  There was a time man feared (REVERENCED) the Lord, but because of that spirit of Jezebel which He tells us to REPENT and turn away, it has seduced the very leaders who claimed to be called by God and they are not even listening to what the Word say.  They say the Word mean this or the Word meant that....God said it, I believe it and that settles it for me. 

Don't get me wrong, don't think I am without fault. but My God who PROMISED to cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness CAN AND WILL, because NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE for God.  So, it is the TRUTH that will set me FREE and I shall speak the truth no matter how it hurts me.   I want to be Free and see Him face to face.

I truly believe Rev. 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.  Because Rev. 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.  13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

This is Word and I do appreciate the dialog, but I also like the truth no matter how much I don't agree.  As far as the Judges, yes there were, as far a prophetess, yes there were, but it was just the leadership role I was concerned with.  Now as far as communion, scripture states 1 Corth. 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.  This is to anyone that has an OUGHT against anyone.  That person ought not to be serving falls under OUGHT.  So, that person need to have their communion at home, as to not bring condemnation, this is why many are sick and weak in the church they bring it on themselves taking communion unworthily.  I know that Paul was writing this to the church of Corinthians, but it is still the INSPIRED Word of God and He will set in order when He comes.    Sorry to write a book, but it is scripture we are conversing about, so it will be a lot.....LOL

In love Sis. Denise

Hi Sis. Denise,

God Bless you on today!  Thanks for commenting again.  I enjoyed reading your view but I must admit that you lost me on portions of your response. There was  a lot of bible quoting but amidst your references, you failed to give a definitive answer to the topic that was posed. Here's where I got lost:

  • Revelations reference "speaks directly to churches today".  I would disagree. The book of Revelations is escatological in nature, meaning it speaks of future events. Also, the writing form is not literal. Its filled with symbolism, metaphors and future prophecies. By placing prophecies in this context, it prevents the mistake of looking for modern “fulfillments” which were never intended.

  • Spirit of Jezebel reference - you stated "There was a time man feared (REVERENCED) the Lord, but because of that spirit of Jezebel which He tells us to REPENT and turn away." in your last post you also said " until Pastors, Ministers, Reverends, Evangelist, Preacher etc. start preaching the Gospel, which is what the WORD actually says and mean, we will continue to come up with bright ideas which will take us from what the Word truly is stating and lead us down the path of unrighteousness which is DISOBEDIENCE to God which is His Word." 
    • Two things:
      • No where in the bible is the term or phrase "spirit of jezebel". This is something not found in the word, yet the things you are against in the afore mentioned paragraph (people not staying true to preaching the WORD), you have just done. So, you have me a little confused here.
      • Disobedience not a "spirit of jezebel" is what leads men away from God.

  • communion reference -  women Serving in leadership is the topic and it was developed from the framework of a female member asking if a female member (who is ordained as a minister but not by me) would assist me in giving communion.  Your response was "Now as far as communion, scripture states 1 Corth. 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.  This is to anyone that has an OUGHT against anyone.  That person ought not to be serving falls under OUGHT.  So, that person need to have their communion at home, as to not bring condemnation, this is why many are sick and weak in the church they bring it on themselves taking communion unworthily" - For clarity, and to keep your reference of scripture in context, its not talking about who can serve communion but rather who can partake (receive and provide) of it.  Also, there is no ought in the equation that I presented, so there is not condemnation. There's just a lack of insight or different views of who can serve it from one member. The member who was ordained has no idea this conversation took place. 

  

The topic of the discussion is views on women "serving" in leadership. I provided both angles in my last response without giving my personal preference. I provided views of women "serving" as co-laborers in leadership and I also provided scripture where women were/are restricted in various aspects of leadership (pastoral/relational).  You actually provided an apologetic in your last responses to back both discourses that I provided in my last response. In other words, you have agreed to what I have written but I think you did it unawares. ***big smiles***

Thank you for responding again. Its always a pleasure dialoging with you. I think we have now exhausted this topic. I pray that God continues to use you as a beacon of light in this dark world.

Be Blessed, 

Bro. Lee

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