It's nothing wrong with having "GAYS" in the church, because the definition of being "Gay" is being happy! We all should be happy when we enter the house of God. Nevertheless, when we look at the word Homosexual or same gender loving; then it may promote a spirit not conducive to the word of God. Interestingly enough, the church is so hypocritical on some issues and leaniant on others. We will bash a homosexual for his or her lifestyle, while some are living in known adultery in leadership in the church. Where ready to send the prostitute to hell, while there are pulpit bullies (Gangsters toting guns in the sanctuary) are pimping God's children. The reality is this, a person cannot get delivered until they know they have a problem. If the church continues to bash those who do not know fully that it is a spirit which needs to be cast out in Jesus name! they will never be won to Christ. What were you before the Lord saved you? What did you do before He changed you? We tend to ask the question What Would Jesus Do? The church does not give the homosexual, prostitute, whoremonger,adulterer etc...the time of day, because these sins are primarily in the closet or on the DL. But we forget about the other sins that could prevent you from enetering the kingdom of God, such as tithe robbers, witchcraft, deception, manipulation, not good stewards of your money or stewards over time.hmmmmm! So, before we can honestly answer this question with Holy Ghost conviction, what sins have you committed and you were not open about? Now, this is no wise giving anyone a crutch to do what they do, because a Transferred spirit has to be cast out so that the EX Homosexual can love a TRANSFORMED life in Christ Jesus! If the church would just show some love.
The sad thing about this WHOLE thing is that there are men and women in the church who are homosexual who stand in the pulpit and negatively speak about homosexuals. Then you have those who will stand up saying, "Amen preach" and then they leave church they have their same-sex partner home waiting for them.
Homosexuality is talked about so much in the church HOWEVER WHY do they allow these homosexual leaders, vocalists and "gospel celebrities" a free pass?
What the HEAD does the BODY follows.
Everything starts at the head.
I want to say that I feel like that the reason why people hate gays that go to church is because of the fact that they do not understand how it feels to be in gay lifestyle, I can tell you from my experience that when people pcik on gays, it seems like that they are condeming the person or being judgemental, I can tell you that I used to live this lifetsyle for several years before I got delivered. and I am telling you that there were people picking at me because I came to church, but I am here to tell you that it was a hurting feeling inside.
In these times, people should not be judged, regardless of the person is a homosexual, or a drug addict; I want to ask the question, "would anyone hate a person if the person was a drug addict, or a drunk, or a adulter?" the bible says "judge ye, judge not, that ye yourself may be judged." We need to show more love to one another regardless if they are saved or not. Love the person, but hate the sin.
People hate for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes though, I think that people who participate in sin feel that correction is hate when it is really CORRECTION OUT OF LOVE. The difference often found between the "homosexual" and "straight fornicator" is that the "straight fornicator" will normally admit in humility that he/she knows that the Bible says it is sin (even though they don't always stop doing it), whereas the "homosexual" fights harder, tries to manipulate the scriptures, and tries to justify the sin, often to a point of being cocky about the sin.
The thing that is failed to be realized, such as in response to the "I was born that way" statement, is that we were all born with sin, which is why we have to be born again. Likewise, having desires and giving in to them are two separate things; you don't have to give in to the sin. The Bible says you can cast down every thought that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. This means (in this situation) that just because you've always had the desire to lean to sexual immorality doesn't mean you have to yield to it.
Think about it. Most people have at some time had a "natural" reaction to want to smack somebody across the head, but just because that is "natural" and they were born with these types of thoughts, doesn't mean they have to act on it. The "straight" fornicator, was born straight, but they don't have to yield to the sin of COMMITTING THE ACT. Yes, they were born with (their flesh craves) these lustful desires, but there is a choice in the action that is done. Basic cheaters, beastiality folks, pedophiles, etc. probably all feel they were born that way, but just because they were "born with" sinful, perverted desires, doesn't mean they have to ACT ON THEM.
So many in the homosexual community act as though, "I was born that way" so they have no choice. You always have a choice of whether or not to take your clothes off and hump around with another person, no matter what your preference or "orientation" is, and you also have the option and choice to resist those thoughts to do so, instead of entertaining them. Correction is not hatred. There is some hatred from some, don't get me wrong, but it must be understood that correction is not hatred.
How should the church treat homosexuals? That's easy. They should be treated with love, the same way that those fornicating teenagers (and deacons :)-lol) are treated. They should be treated with the same dignity that those porno watchers are treated with. Sin is sin. They should NOT be told their sin is okay, as none of the others should either, but treated with truth and love in correction and restoration.
If Christians were honest, they would admit that they do not abide by all the commandments of scripture themselves. I don't mean we try and fail. I mean we deliberately choose to ignore scriptures that are not convenient for our lifestyle. As I pointed out in my post yesterday, the amount of scripture that is ignored, scorned, and abused by modern Christians is appalling.
I think we should afford our homosexual brothers and sisters the same luxury. Perhaps we should offer them space at our bonfire to burn their little handful of scriptures as we burn the bible chapter and verse.
We should all agree that none of us are able or willing to follow all the teachings of scripture. Let the one who is obeying God's word ask for explanations from others.
In my book, that settles the argument, and there is no reason to go further. However, if you are determined to hold homosexuals to a higher standard, demanding detailed explanations of why they do not obey minor parts of the bible while all of Christendom tramples on the very heart of scripture, move on to part two:
Part Two - The Bible and homosexuality:
(I’m indebted to my new friend B. in Dallas for these thoughts)
The bible never addresses the subject of homosexuality. The idea of sexual identity was not a part of human thought until very recently. The bible addresses some specific homosexual acts in very specific contexts.
The idea of two people in a loving, committed homosexual relationship was not understood in the ancient Hebrew world and is not a subject in the bible.
Very credible biblical scholars treat the passages in question as specific commands against specific acts, and not as a wholesale prohibition on a homosexual orientation.
For many people, understanding this obvious limitation of the bible is all that is needed. The bible does not address the broad subject of sexual orientation because it was written before that was an issue. Any specific condemnation of homosexual acts must be seen as just that – a specific condemnation of an act in a specific context.
However, if that sounds too wishy-washy to you, if it sounds too slippery and subjective, let me now speak to all 6 of the passages in the bible that are thought by some people to address the issue of homosexuality.
Part Three – Exegesis
There are exactly 6 scriptures that are thought to address homosexuality. I’ll either quote the passage or provide a link so that you can read it.
The story of the destruction of Sodom – Genesis 19:1-29. If you read this story, you’ll quickly see that the men of the city of Sodom wanted to commit a brutal, homosexual rape (is there any other kind?). We simply cannot condemn a sexual orientation because of a rape. There is a heterosexual rape described in the next passage we will examine together. Shall we condemn heterosexuality because of this rape?
Any reasonable person will understand that this passage has nothing to say about loving, consensual homosexual relationships.
Judges 19:1-30 is a sad story of human evil of the type that are often recounted in scripture. It is basically a retelling of the Sodom story in a different context. This time, however, the men actually did rape a woman. This passage speaks to the need for God's love in a brutal world. It has no bearing on the question of homosexual orientation for the same reason that the Sodom story is not applicable. Both of these stories condemn ignorance and sexual brutality, but not homosexuality.
Texts 3 and 4 are both in Leviticus and make up a part of the Old Testament Levitical code.
Leviticus 18:22 – “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”
Leviticus 20:13 – “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
The code of rules and behaviors in Leviticus does not apply to Christians. No Christian group I know demands full compliance with this ancient code of behavior. If we did we would have to keep kosher laws. We don’t even demand compliance with the sexual rules in Leviticus. If we did, we would allow polygamy, which is lawful in Leviticus. Unless you are prepared to obey all the rules in Leviticus, you cannot blame the homosexual for not feeling bound to obey them. To point to these two verses and demand selective compliance is ludicrous.
The Old Testament really has nothing specific to say to Christians about homosexuality. We turn now to the New Testament.
Jesus had nothing to say on the subject of homosexuality. His absence of comment does not support or condemn homosexuality. As I’ve noted, the idea of sexual orientation was not a part of human thinking. It’s not surprising that Jesus never addressed what was not an issue.
Paul discusses specific homosexual acts twice. These passages are the only two times homosexual behavior is mentioned in the New Testament.
I Corinthians 6:9 – “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders”
Male prostitutes and homosexual offenders. Can someone explain to me why we would condemn an entire orientation because of the prohibition of these specific acts?
The Greek words Paul used in this passage include the word for a young, effeminate male prostitute and the word for the older man who paid to have sex with him.
We can acknowledge that the bible condemns prostitution and a system where a younger man makes his living committing sex acts for money with older men. But we cannot condemn homosexuality in general because homosexual prostitution was condemned.
Paul condemns many heterosexual acts in his writings, even in this very verse, yet we do not condemn heterosexuality.
Romans 1:18-29 is the single most important passage dealing with homosexual acts. It is the one most often quoted and it is clearly the closest thing we find to condemnation. Verse 27 is the most specific verse.
I simply ask you to read this entire passage with an open mind. Paul says that those who reject God will be “given over to a shameful lusts”. They will engage in many acts that are not pleasing to God. Men will “burn with lust for one another” (verse 27)
I have seen sexuality perverted and used for evil in many contexts. The faithful and monogamous homosexuals that I know do not burn with lust for other men. They express their sexuality with each other, just as married heterosexuals do.
I don’t know exactly what Paul meant by this passage. I know he was describing people who chose not to worship God and then "burned with lust for other men." I don't know exactly what he meant, but I know this DOES NOT describe the homosexual Christians I know, who love God with great passion and are quietly committed to each other.
Part Four – Conclusion
Those are the 6 passages in the bible that are thought to address the subject of homosexuality. The Old Testament passages amount to nothing and the two New Testament passages are ambiguous at best and highly open to interpretation.
I do not think the bible teaches that every expression of homosexual love is sinful. The scriptural witness on this subject is shaky at best.
Even if you do not buy my claim that we have no right to demand specific explanation of scriptures from homosexuals since we don’t provide similar explanations for the hundreds of passages we blatantly ignore…
Even if you do not agree that the Bible never really addresses the subject of homosexuality as a sexual orientation…
Even if you reject my biblical analysis and decide that the bible is condemning of homosexuals…
Would you at least agree that the passages are ambiguous and open to many interpretations? Would you at least agree that others may responsibly interpret them and not agree with you?
If you could at least acknowledge that scripture is far from clear on this subject, then perhaps you would be willing to err on the side of compassion. Perhaps you would be willing to open your churches to our homosexual brothers and sisters, trusting them to read the bible just as you do, with love and hoping for Grace from God.
I suggest you read the book, "Same Sex Controversy" by James R. White and Jeffrey D. Neill.
This will change your mind about what you just posted here.
God is against same-sex relationships under ANY context.
God has ONLY ordained marriage between man and woman- period.
Any sex outside the confines of marriage is either fornication or adultery- sin.
AMEN! Any sex outside of the confounds between A man and A woman that God have ajoined is SIN. Let me say it again, any sex outside of confounds defined by God between A man and A woman is SIN. Though homosexuality carries greater consequences of penalty according to the old testament, the goal here is that all believers would aspire to live holy by the grace of the Holy Spirit. Many have asked me and ask me how did you come out and stay out. My response is simple and it never changes, LIVE HOLY! So weather I were a whore, crack addict, homosexual, liar, thief, wife beater, or pedophile, the answer is all the same. LIVE HOLY according to the Word of God!
It is so much that i can say to this topic but I guess I will keep it simple. Gays are everywhere in and outside of the church and its not just the people in the pews that are practicing this lifestyle. I know countless of pastors, ministers, bishops, married/engaged, "supposedly straight guys" that are doing this as well. I think that the main people that are out here talking so much about gay people are the ones that are secretly creeping the hotel to get down with some of them. Plus, the last I checked I dont have any room to talk about the sins and acts of anyone else, I know I have done my fair share of sin. Its hard to just keep up with my own shortcomings so no one can point the finger at anyone.The bottom line is that we must pray for all of those that are in the lifestyle, affected by the lifestyle, contemplating thelifestyle or delivered from the lifestyle. We DO NOT have the power to change people...ONLY GOD DOES...Pray for them
As ministers of the gospel we are suppose to preach against all sin. We are not only commanded to pray but to preach as well. Since we were all born in sin, who would preach against it if we all just prayed? If we have been delivered and called to preach the gospel then we can not base our messages on our previous sins. If you are delivered from fornication, you are no longer a fornicator and must preach against it. The same could be said for all sin.
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound, NO GOD FORBIDS. Preaching against homosexuality is not hatred it is obedience to God's word. Now for those who don't practice what they preach that is a whole other topic.