I am sure that by taken back by the number of ministers that I spoke with who said all kinds of bad things about this guy even though they did not know him and most condemned him to hell for those actions. People! People! Pe0ple! Can we really make such accusations and conclusions without knowing all the facts and without hearing from God and considering what He may really think about that. All of the pastor that I spoke to seemed to say that the Bible says that he is going to hell, yet I can't agree with that, in fact I can only find two things that the word says we want be forgiven for and one of them is blasphemy against the holy spirit ( and most people can't do that and don't even really know what that means-another time) and then there is rejection of Jesus Christ. Now there are scripture that suggest that suicide is a "no=no.", but in the end God has the final say so and I truly believe that depending on the circumstance, there is a question in my mind whether suicide is punishable by eternal damnation.
Think with me, what if that same gentleman was not in a mental state ( and it was said that he was a diagnosed manic depressant) of mind that kept him from being rational? Was it he that made the decision to end it, a demon or his sickness? Does God in his mercy consider that?
Be honest with me, have you ever considered suicide? If so, why? How did you feel? What were you thinking? Why did you not complete the suicide?
What I am saying is that there are some matters that only God can judge and determine based on the facts.
What if he told God all about it and after asking God to forgive him, he accidently shot himself? What if he prayed that God would forgive him? Do you really think God did not anticipate and know about what was about to come?
Let me know your thought and please all religious people that don't understand how to rightly divide the word or who have never felt this emotion, please don't write ignorance on this discussion. We are seeking to enlighten. In fact as I share this there are three people who will read this and who feel that emotion at this moment. God bless
Dr. Smith, I believe most teaching against suicide hinges on the presupposition that God will not forgive the unrepented sin of self-murder. I think there is strong biblical support for this supposition.
However, I would agree that there can be mitigating circumstances (like the suicidal ideation generated by some of these psychopharmaceuticals that are so casually distributed lately), that would call into question whether there was conscious intent to harm oneself. Without intent, it is only a tragic accident. Self-inflicted death by someone too impaired to know what he or she was doing qualifies, I think, as an accident.
I will say, though, that I have been investigating nouthetic counseling, and I'm persuaded by its advocates that some of what society now calls "mental illness" is old-fashioned sinfulness. Today, every compulsion and anti-social behavior has a secular counselor labeling it "sickness"; instead, we should acknowledge that such behavior may be willful rebellion and wickedness.
Of course, it is pure speculation to call any particular suicide "sinfulness" or "sickness" without evidence of some kind; in the instances where we haven't a clue, it is best not to make any declarative statements one way or the other.
Thank you for your reply. This is by far the most intelligent, sensible, well written reply that I have received on any site. I am so grateful that God has people who speak from knowledge and prayer. May God bless you continuously.
Greetings, both posts were for good reading and mind sparing for thought. And I would think that Bro. Smith answered it eloquently by saying self-murder. I do not think differences in translation or interpretation has anything to do with the instruction to not add or take away from Gods word, but I do know it says thou shall not kill and I would take that to even mean yourself. Although there are many who may feel a certain way about the man who committed suicide, he will be the one before God, who has stated He will come quickly and His reward will be with Him.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
No man has the right to take a life even their own, because we are not our own. As far as mental illness, those who have Christ Jesus is free .. Psalm 107:20 states He sent His Word to heal them from ALL destruction...Now I will say that there are those who say they are Christ, but He even said IF we keep HIS commandments we are HIS, if not we are of our father the devil. It is so many using the name of Jesus and are not His...so many who use His name and it is in vain. Everyone that says Lord, is not speaking of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, no matter how dressed up they are or how eloquently they speak. It is those who do the WILL of the Father and if they are not, oh well...Jesus says we are NOT His. It is the TRUTH that sets us free, not sugar coated, can we get along gospel...it is the TRUE Word of God and if we don't keep our feet shodded in it, we will stand for anything.
And my take on the brother that did that to himself, was that his arrogance made him feel above his congregation and peers and he didn't want to humble himself to get the help he needed, so in his self preservation, he decided to end it. Because God hears those who are called by His name and humble themselves and pray, He will heal. God is NOT a liar nor will His Word return to Him void. If its not of God it is of the other...that's what the Word say. Whom report shall we believe????
In Love Sister Denise
Let me take the time to thank you for your reply and to thank you for taking the time to clearly communicate your position on this subject. Personally, I think your response has merit and concern. I agree that no one has the right to take his or her life. I also agree with the passage that you used, if you are using it in the context sharing what the word says in general. On another note, though, I think it would be a tragedy to suggest that because a person speaks good English, he or she has violated scripture. Time want permit but I could share many scriptures to support that. The issue though is not evaluating how one speaks but rather "rightly" dividing the word of truth because if there is a right way to divide the word, there is also a wrong way to divide the word.
My efforts in posting was for the purpose challenging us to go beyond scripture "quoting" and enter into to "study" scripture. The word admonishes us to "study" in order to show that we are approved unto God and that we need not be ashamed but "rightly." dividing the word of truth. While I am supportive of all of Gods servants, I do believe that the church is one of few places where people can come and attach the name of Pastor, Bishop etc to themselves without proper protocol, education, spiritual directing or even callings. It is unfortunate, but many of our church leaders can't even run their own homes well and use the church as a platform to have authority because in every other arena in life they have no real validity. Sad!!! But back to the subject at hand, much of what you quoted above is scripture, but it is was not written to use without closely studying the context it is written in. Worst of all; although you rarely hear people talk about it, there is going to be just as many folk in hell who wrongfully divided the word of God and led people astray as there are of those who sinned. In fact, I dare say the sinner may be a little better off. That all said, thank you again for your comment, at the least, you shared with us what you felt and I have to admire a person who will share their convictions. Keep up the good work. God bless.
Greeting Bro. Smith, thank you for your acknowledgment of my post and I want to say that with all that typing I did, I was simply saying God said it, I believe it and that settles it for ME. I use scripture, because I believe in the Word of God and that it applies to everyday life and usage, if one want to do His will. I used scripture, because no matter how I look at a matter, God has already said it in His word and given instruction. I truly wasn't implying that because a person speaks good English he or she has violated scripture. Using good English and saying God meant something other than what He said in the Word is the danger. Keeping with the subject matter and what God said about "thou shall not kill", I said that that included one self. Suicide is murder on self am I correct? We can twist it we can milk it down, but death by anyone's hands is murder, even in self defense. Yes, we can go on and on about a matter, but God sent His Word and when we want to know what He say about a matter we go to Him, but if we want man's word, thoughts about a matter we go to man. Sometimes one thinks its better to go to man until it is found out that man really don't have all the answers, but God does, if we really search for it in His word. Yes, we must study to show ourselves approved, by which we know that see seek Gods word on a matter, seek Gods way of doing a thing, seek Gods guidance. It is difficult for the flesh to humbly deny self, but it is possible, because all thing are possible through Christ Jesus who strengthens us to do so, but first we must belong. It is PREQUSITES to all of Gods instructions. God is a God of order and when we are out of order with His word, oh well we are somewhere else and according to the Word there is either or. What we think is not what God thinks, so it is best to take scripture of yesterday and apply it to today and forever, because He word is true yesterday, today and forever. We make it difficult when He says the yoke is easy, you can apply Gods word everywhere in our lives, if we believe God said it, and believe it and let that be.
That all said, you be blessed, encouraged and keep up the good works of the Lord.
In Love Sister Denise
Thank you my sister,