I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Pastor Jones,

I accept that you love the Lord and are sincere. I clearly understand your position; So that you clearly understand mine; I am not in agreement with you because of a "lack of understanding" or "lack of research" I am quite clear conserning the basis of my position. Its the Bible's position and as a defender of the faith I have a duty to speak out against err. This argument has nothing to do with "Lyrics" this has everything to do with copying that entire theme from an ungodly recording, changing a few of the words infusing "Jesus" in a couple of spots and all of a sudden I am supposed to forget that Rick James wrote that song 20 years ago...that's an insult my intellegents, its not Gospel! its a fraud!

Now concering the Brother that "Created his own original SOUND and the LYRICS well praise the Lord! That is what I am advocating - and if its as original as you say it is than its not Hip Hop, therefore its not "Gospel Hip Hop; it's a fast pace Gospel song; there is nothing wrong with that!

Please understand while every dessenting voice is not based on lack of information every voice to the affirmative is not based on wisdom.

Part of my teen and young adult years I attended the United Methodist Church - average age 60 years old; because my Grand Parents were big in the Church, they would sit me up front in the "Good seats" some young people would come from the streets and forced to sit so far back you need binarculars to see the front...I went and sat with those young people; I wanted the folks around me to remember that Jesus said "as you have done the least of my brothers..." That does not mean I was going to dress like them, it does not mean that I was going to "Rapp like them" eventually they began to dress like me, eventually they began to talk like me, and just before I was thrown out they received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and spake in other toungs as the Spirit gave them utterance! (Methodist don't believe in that) Praise the Lord! so I have been where you are and I certainly was where that brother was...

Never the less - Hip Hop is its own religion! it is diometrically apposed to everything that we believe! it is based on a spirit that apposes Christ; by its very nature demands a YaDa Praise - Raising of the hands in exuberant praise) Only Jesus Christ deserves that kind of praise. I too thought I could tame that beast, I listen to NWA, ICE CUBE, Snoop, Prince, MJ all of them - re-writing the Lyrics to make a new kind of Gospel Song - before long I was not only listening to that garbage I was humming the tunes, then dancing to the tunes, then came the clubs, then came the women and there went the Church - I was a backslider! the road to hell is wide and paved with good intentions; what you think won't happen I know has happened! It only takes a little grease on the floor to slip and fall.

Please my brother I understand clearly; this is war! you can't play the devil!
Now in order to accurately answer your question one must look at the purpose to which we were created and the aim to which we strive and the definition of Hip- Hop do these compliment each other.

God made man in such a way as to reflect some of His own perfections- perfect in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness, with dominion over all the creatures

Now I guess as we all need to strive to get back to that image in which He made us so let us look at a definition of Hip-Hop.

1. A popular urban youth culture, closely associated with rap music and with the style and fashions of African-American inner-city residents

Now I understand we need to get the young people into the churches so why don’t we conform to what please them instead of striving for what please God bring the music they like in the churches, but remember once in that’s not enough we need to keep them in. But of course we need to please them so they stay so why not go a little further lets allow them to come in the fashion for the music, trouser below the bum because of course they need to express themselves oh but did you not know they need to experience the out of the world experiences so why not stretch the rules a bit further they need a bit of kick and lift to get them going so if we allow them to have a bit of drugs during morning service they are sure to stay and praise the Lord.

Now when we look at what I have just said why did any of us needed to be different why did Jesus have to shed his blood for us why did we have to be born again after all there is no difference between the church and the outside world.

Come on people of God we are supposing to be drawing people to the holiness of God not drawing God to the lewdness of people.

God’s people is not of this world we are suppose to be different from the people of this world we cannot always want to do the things of this world and think we are serving God.

On face book someone has a video of the latest craze in hip-hop in the middle of the dance hall with spectators looking on what is considered to be the latest craze is to have full blown sex to the hip hop music so children of God where do you draw the line.

The person who said the Bible did not specify a type or style of music is correct but what the Bible specific is the holiness we must strive to. The Bible specify the difference between God’s people and the things of this world. But if you have your way there won’t be any difference so did our Saviour died in vain.

Those of you who are arguing for the hip hop and the things of this world ask yourself are you any different from Lot’s wife who wanted the best of both world. She wanted God but she just could not leave the things of this world behind. Being with Christ requires us to sacrifice things in this world so come on children of God let us strive to walk in holiness and look to the kingdom of God and not to the things of this world.
Sis. Angela,

You are absolutly right! I personally suspect that the only reason that these people defend this foolishness so vehemently is money! This is multi Billion Dollar Industry and the music business has found a crack in the armor of the Church! Greed: The Love of Money is the root of all evil! What bette way to lagitimize this nonsense than t have it validated by the Church! then we are dancing to the tune of the devil;


he does not care that we praise Jesus at the same time! he only cares that he be included in the mix! It is God that said "I God am a jealouse God! and too many Pastors are afraid to stand up for God and be counted because they don't want to loose the congregation to the Church down the street! Thanks be to God that he is raising up a generation of Men and Women of God you will stand bold in proclaiming the wonderfull works of God.


Thanks

Pastor Hodge
So by your logic there should be no music in the church. After all music in and of itself is a multi billion dollar industry itself too, so as a result pastors who use music are trying to get dollars into their churches too... That by far is the weakest argument to date, a conspiracy theory..... Its about the money.....Keep in mind by your own logic pastor Hodge if you have music in YOUR church you are as guilty as the men you purport to expose.

I have said it before on a different board, There is no man born of woman, or woman sired by man who is any one's Holy Ghost and the sooner we all understand this, the better we will all be.
The same thing was said about "Gospel" music back in the day when Dr. Thomas Dorsey wrote Precious Lord. He was banned from a lot of churches and only one took him in Pilgrim Baptist Church in Chicago. The same thing was said about musical instruments back in the day. This same argument has been going on for centuries. Why is it, that we get so wrapped up in things that in the scheme of things have about as much bearing on a situation than an ant on a crowded sidewalk.

I believe that I Cor 7 applies. If it cause some to stumble, then I believe that we should not do it so that it deals a blow to our brother or sister. If it does not I believe that along with other things it is a personal mandate. If God has dealt with you about Holy Hip Hop fine, live out your convictions, but if not, I am not going to attempt to make you follow my convictions just because I may be in a position of leadership, that would be witchcraft.

There are far weighter issues that need to be addressed, like the damage that the church has done to the family. How we have been silent on how we treat each other. We are absent at the table to discuss homelessness, and mental illness, but yet we want to clamor loudly on the choices other people make. We want to deny heaven to some, and yet we will not lift a finger to help someone who lives down the street from our church because they "are not a member" We want to place limitations on people and prerequisites on them, when Jesus who is to be our example never did.... Whatever happened to accountability? Since when does the title pastor or minister give one a pass at telling the truth, not dealing in innuendo, and refusing to answer simple questions, like "Where is your proof"?
A lot of things have been said about people who are in hip hop, and holy hip hop, and yet when pressed for proof some of the accusers shy away refusing to answer questions. An apostle I know of once told me that "those who do not answer simple questions often times have something to hide".
My Brother,

If this is such a small issue than drop it! Leave hip hop in the away from God's Pullpit! Since its such a small insignificant matter; but don't sit there and tell me to put it in my Church and don't expect me to approve of it in the Church at large.

Your argument is like saying that yes there was this man that had sex with the 13 year old; but don't prosecute him because there are other criminals committing worse crimes...one has nothing to do with the other - I do agree that peope who refuse to answr simple questions probably do have something to hide...so answer me this; since God gives th gift; why not ask God to give you the gift of a new sound (beat)?


Thanks


Pastor Hodge
Point one my brother I did not tell you to put it in your church, I stated that in my estimation, it is a I Corinthians 7 issue, meaning this, if you do not want it, do not have it, if you know of someone who may fall because of it, do not have it. But do not attempt to make it a mandate simply because YOU do not want to have it, or believe it to be something to be ill used.To do so would be tantamount to witchcraft.

Point two: You misinterpret the argument in total. My argument is based solely on I Corinthians 7, if you wish to debate it we can the choice as in all things is yours to make. In terms of the new sound, as I stated before when Thomas Dorsey who at the time was a blues and jazz artist when he wrote Precious Lord and for that reason, he was not allowed to play gospel music in many churches. Today we all know that the stance that was taken back then was wrong. Would you be willing to consider that the same stance that is being taken today is equally wrong?

Point three: That was part of my point in its entirety. This issue is so miniscule when compared to the other issues that confront us. You as a pastor certainly are cogent of the same, and yet you are here, on this blog, reading, and misreading some of the very things that I have stated in an attempt to try to goad me into an argument of issues that I have previously stated. Tell me pastor, what is more important the words that are spoken, or the beat? If I set Precious Lord to a hip hop beat, does it diminish the message of the song? If I set Amazing Grace to an R&B beat does the fact that I am singing about God's amazing grace that set me free, when Christ shed his blood change simply because I am singing it to a beat that is akin to a Luther Vandross beat? Did Solomon say that "you are snared with the beat of your song, or the words of your mouth? (Proverbs 6:2a). If the words that I put to song, regardless of beat are edifying, if they speak of encouragement, If they speak of the God that set me free from sin, and the ravages thereof, If they fulfill the mandate of Phillipians 4:8, why oh why are we hung up on the beat when the message is clear if it does the things I previously mentioned.

But since you feel I am saying that you should put it in your church, keep in mind read it here first, I AM SAYING NO SUCH THING. It is as always a choice. I don't care actually what you bring to your church. provided you are passionate about your people, and their needs, as well as those who surround your choice and those who are under the sphere of your influence, after all he who has influence, has power.
Brother Anthony,

Hip hop is born of a particular culture, namely the street punk and gang style culture. The same culture identified with Tupac Shakir, Notorious BIG and Snoop Dog. There is nothing wrong with culture in itself, but the truth is we as believers are to follow the Word of God and not a specific culture. Hip hop music (in the church or otherwise) is derived from the flesh. There is no such thing as Christian hip hop, the flesh represents darkness, and you should know that darkness and light will never agree. Of course, there is no scripture that speaks directly against hip hop, but there is one portion of scripture that can be applied and that it is, "Be ye holy, for I am holy" - 1 Peter 1: 16
Rev. Miller as I previously stated, the same thing was said of Dorsey who at the time was blues and jazz artist whose songs at the time were risque for their day. Had it not been for JC Austin Sr, who was smart enough to recognize that the loss of his wife and child in childbirth had changed him, and moved him into relationship with God, we might never have had gospel music. Negro spirituals were born out of a culture as well Rev. Miller, and next month most black churches will be singing them ad nauseum. These songs came out of the culture of slavery. based on your logic, they should be banned as well, because as you put it, "we do not follow a culture". Keep in mind I am not going to bring up how we as believers also follow some aspects of first century mediteranian culture.There are those of us who want to keep our sisters in line misusing scripture. Telling them that they have to submit to their husbands which they are required to do, but we never if ever preach that as men we must submit to them as well. We never teach that if we do not do well by our wives that our prayers will not be heard (I Peter 3:7) Also keep in mind that Hip Hop is rarely based on Biggie, Tupal and Snoop. The men you cite have gotten wealthy from aspects of the culture yes, but hip hop was here long before the men you mentioned. In terms of being Holy, that is a mandate that transcends culture. As I said to the pastor earlier. If my words edify, if they encourage, if they bring praise, who cares about the beat... Proverbs is clear: Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth. (Proverbs 6:2). If my words are words that follow the mandate of Phillipians 4:8, the beat that they are set to does not matter, I do not believe that setting words to a beat have any bearing on my ability to follow 1 Pet. 1:16, in fact it actually does more to facilitate it, after all if I set scripture to a beat that allows me to remember, recall, and meditate as I sing it out, does that not do more to keep me focused on God and what He has done for me??
Brother Anthony,

Correct, the church has followed various cultures, but I still say we are to follow the Word of God as oppose to cultures. Let me go a little further and say that hip hop music was born of PARTICULAR culture that is direct opposition to God. Negro spirituals came from enslavement of our ancestors, and was a result of their cry to God. I did mention Brother Anthony that there is nothing wrong with culture in itself, but the truth is a particular culture does not bring light to my feet in a dark world like the Word of God can. A particular culture does not have the reviving power that you will find in the Word of God, and that is why I said we are to follow the Word of God and nothing else. The so-called Christian hip hop is a misnomer, because there is nothing Christian about hip hop; there is nothing holy about it either. The apostate churches today, which are growing in number, will openly admit that they embrace hip hop music in order to draw young people into their ministries, and they even say they are reaching them for Christ. But actually it is all about the so-called mighty dollar, it is about the desire to grow a mega-church or the desire to pastor a church with two or three locations. Hip hop is a multi-billion dollar industry, and so it is no wonder so many churches are willing to let the world come into worship services. One brother in this forum actually said that, "...the beat and the rhythm will draw the young people to the church" but I say that the beat and the rhythm can only lead them to hell without the Word of God. Pragmatism is not God's way, in other words to do something to bring about a certain result is not what are instructed to do, if I allow hip hop in my church simply to increase the membership role, that is pragmatic. Brother Anthony, we should be like farmers, we should sow seeds and water seeds, and then step back so God can add the increase--not us.
Once again my brother there are holes in your argument, One are you saying that God is so impotent that He cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Were we all not born into sin, and of the culture of sin, and yet God is able to save all of us if we are willing to allow him to do so. His blood is enough. And your statement here says that He is not, that His blood is not.

As to your second point, my brother when did you become omniscient? How is it that you know the intent of men who are wise enough to know that there are many ways to lead men to Christ. As I have stated before and will not move from it, the beat means nothing, it is the words behind the beat. If I set I John 4:7-8 to music are you telling me that the Word of God stops being the word of God and is reduced to something less? Regardless of how much money is generated by Hip hop (which by the way is not even in the scope of the conversation we are having), You are correct sir God is not pragmatic, God is truth, and does not need to be proven in order to be believed.

I am not saying that you should allow it in your church, as stated before I believe that this is a I Corinthians 7 issue meaning it is up to the person to make the choice, but not to flaunt thier freedom in the face of a brother or sister who may falter in faith because of it. However it is not the job of anyone to condemn anyone for their choice, because there is only one Holy Spirit who deals with us all differently. How He deals with me, is different from how He deals with you. you are right we do sow seeds, but in most cases we all use different fertilizers, some may add additives to the water that is used. And in some cases there are hybrid seeds. If you allow it in or not is not so much pragmatic as much as it is personal choice. There are some pastors that teach that if you are out it is ok to have a drink if you want to, once again a personal choice. The Bible does not say not to drink, it says not to get drunk. Wine was served at many of the social functions of Jesus' day when he was here, and even He said he drank at them (Luke 7:31-33), I cannot say, nor should I say that this pastor or that pastor is teaching wrong because how he is being dealt with is different than my experience.

Beat and rhythm have no bearing in my argument, Proverbs is clear.
This time Brother Anthony I have no idea what you are saying and I am left without a response for you.

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