I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Amen
Those of us that you mentioned do take a stand against hip hop music in God's house. And those who advocate this practice are in fact being influenced by the world. We are to be new creatures, we are to shun the things of the world, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new". You should know Brother Day that we are in this world but not of it, "And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" - Romans 12: 2.

Brother Day look how far this has gone into church, there is now a so-called "Hip-hop prayer book" which rewrites Scripture using hip hop vernacular in an attempt to bring the altar to the streets. In other words, they are trying to combine remix with rebirth of the church. One preacher pastor has constructed a brand new "Hip-hop sanctuary" this particular sanctuary comes complete with a deejay scratching bass booming, wall-thumping music from the pulpit. The members are encouraged to sport do-rags during service. The church has a night-club like atmosphere because of the dim lighting.

Gospel singer Hezekiah Walker is now known as the "Hip-hop pastor" and he got his nick-name hosting P-diddy or Puff daddy, Missy Eliot, Lil Kim, and other SECULAR hip hop artist at his church. Yes, those of us you have mention do take a stand against the unholy hip hop music in the church and our minds are very open.

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." - Revelation 2: 14
You are constantly speaking of not being conformed, however there is a difference between being conformed and being
1. cogent of the culture
2. speaking the language of the culture
3. respecting the culture
4. reaching out to the culture
By your own admission you do none of these, that is your choice and that is fine, you obviously have not been called to reach out to them, that is fie. But for you to condemn those that have been called to reach them, called to speak the language, those who are wise enough to respect and be cogent of the culture, is foolish. Have you even read the hip hop prayer book? I would venture to say no, because like all of pharasitical thought you will not touch, will not go, will not endeavor to reach out. That is your choice and I weep for you. I had the opportunity to go to amazon, look up the book and actually read some of the things that are written. It is nothing more than a version of the Catholic prayer book reinterpreted to slang. Much like the Message version of the Bible. By the way so what if members are sporting doo rags, last time I checked it is the condition of the soul that determines entrance and acceptance.

"Gospel singer Hezekiah Walker is now known as the "Hip-hop pastor" and he got his nick-name hosting P-diddy or Puff daddy (same person), Missy Eliot, Lil Kim, and other SECULAR hip hop artist at his church"

This comment you meant pejoratively, how do you know that the gospel is not preached to them? How do you know that perhaps their heart is or is not pricked? How do you know that the Lord is not at work? Are you so foolish, and so prideful, and silly enough to attempt to claim omniscience? You sound as those who when the Lord was present that condemned him for spending His time with the prostitutes, the publicans, the tax collectors and other sinners. How do you know that in the future that the seed planted will not yield any fruit? Tell me when you plant something, does it spring up immediately or does it take time?
You threw in Rev 2:14a to top off your argument, and if that is what was happening the usage would be apt, however reaching out to a group, learning the language in order to speak directly to them, in a way they understand, respecting it enough to want to reach out, (even those who go overseas have to get cultural training in order that they not do anything offensive around the people they meet).

A more accurate passage would be 1 Corinthians 9:22-23. But I am sure you would differ. I am still struggling to understand why is it that you have never done research on your own as opposed to the rantings of one man who after his hip hop CD did not sell, decided he was going to try to tear the whole thing down?
Rev. Miller,

Your apparent bigotry is scary. What is wrong with a "hip-hop prayer book" if it encourages people to pray who otherwise may not? I mean, should we go around speaking King James English, restrict ourselves to Puritan dress and act with the feigned gravity of the stereotypical deacon? The Word tells us to delight ourselves in the Lord (Psalm 37:4). Do you know what delight means? I'll help you -- to enjoy!

These pastors and preachers who have embraced this are teaching the lost and the new convert that serving God is a delightful experience, not a somber, joyless existence. I like the fact that my teenage son "gets krunk" for Christ instead of doing the same in a worldly pursuit. My son, praise God, is a beacon for his schoolmates -- they see that life in Christ is not some stale, boring life.

I would understand if you were to simply say, "not in my church," and leave it at that. But your railing and condemnation is unbecoming a true man of God. No one is advocating a retreat from holiness. No one is suggesting the abandonment of fundamental preaching and sound doctrine. No one is suggesting that entertainment should have primacy over teaching. What we're talking about is a method -- a means to an end.

I want you all to know I have nothing but love for you. However, I want to say that this religious spirit that persists in the church does not bode well for the Body of Christ. We should be concerned with taking territory for the Kingdom. In doing so, we must follow the model of the Apostle Paul, who wrote in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 that "...he became all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." You are correct, sir, in stating we are not of the world. However, if we are to reach the world for Christ, we would do well to learn the vernacular of the world that we may preach Christ to the world!

Your Brother in Christ,
Derrick Day
Once again see Thomas A Dorsey circa 1932. This is the same argument, about the same thing, it was wrong then, and it is just as wrong now. No one is saying that God has to change, you are right He does not change. However the Bible does say that "He that winneth souls is wise. If I know that a certain thing will win some to Christ, I would be foolish to not use the tools handed to me to win those who might be saved.
The same argument was also used about preaching on Television verses the local body. It was thought that TV preachers would take away from the local body and people would stop coming to church. That argument lost steam. mostly because it was an argument based on fear. Might I add my sister, that the first two scriptures you cited, have no bearing on the debate that we are having. So why did you post them? The second two scriptures might have something to do with the debate that we are having had I made statements that would have opened up the discussion to bring them in. I have spoken to how the words mean more than the beat. I have not wavered from that argument, so in what sense have i been or behaved in a double minded fashion? The word of God is precious, please do not misuse it by throwing it out without purpose in the midst of a debate attempting to look spiritual when it looks silly on its face. Oh and by the way also keep in mind that if we followed your line of reasoning, you could not be called prophetess because the old church would not sanction and in some cases still does not sanction women in ministry positions. A misunderstanding of I Tim.2:11-15, men have an issue when it comes to identifying things that are meant culturally verses those things that are eternal truths. (This is a discussion for another time but I digress)
Outstanding reply, Brother, outstanding!
Actually no it did not. It was not relevant to the conversation we were having

1. Lev 19 does not apply as no one here has spoken about defiling the tabernacle or the temple.

2. God is exalted in some of the songs as the lyrics deal with praise and worship, so that kinda is on point.

3. James does not apply as I have stated before I have not wavered in the points I was making.

4. Revelation does not apply see above as it is pertaining to the lack of cogent argument that you are attempting to make.

With all due respect having the title prophetess in front of your name is not indicative of your use of wisdom and knowledge regarding the things you deal with. As with most of what has been said it appears as though you are simply regurgitating something that you have been told. Which is fine except that with the knowledge that you have, you should at the least attempt to study for yourself to verify the facts as given, rather than simply regurgitating them. I can quote talking points, thing is when I do, there is conviction because I have studied. When I speak it is with authority because I do the legwork required to speak on them. Proverbs 18:13 "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is shame and folly unto him".
Brother Anthony,

I notice that you keep alluding to the great Thomas A. Dorsey, and you are correct he did suffer opposition. Earlier in his life he was influenced by the blues, when he became involved with the church, he incorporated his blues experience with the white church tradition in music. Some even called his music the "Gospel Blues" but this where the similarities that you address end. Rev. Dorsey left his mark on today's gospel music, in fact, he is now known as the "Father of Gospel Music" he contributed many great songs to the church, such as "Precious Lord" he coached one of the greatest gospel singers to have ever lived and that being Mahalia Jackson, Now I ask you, what contributions have the so-called Holy Hip-hop artist given us thus far? It is fruitless for you to attempt to compare Rev. Dorsey with something that is really not even a music genre.
Ok your point here again is very contrived for two reasons.

1. Dorsey was not influenced by the blues, in many ways he changed it. He was the Prince of his day, the man wrote some raunchy stuff for his day. He tutored many artists out of Pilgrim, not just Mahalia, but Albertina Walker, James Cleveland, Julia Whitfield, and a whole host of others. Regardless to say that because of the people he influenced and tutored out of Pilgrim Bapt Church, and say that because Hip Hop has influenced no one (which by the way is not true) is nonsensical. To say that it not a genre is equally foolish, it is akin to saying that salsa is not a form or music, when it clearly is. To compare what happened to Dr. Dorsey to what is going on now is apt in that like the preachers of old, you and our peers are on the wrong side of the issue because you refuse to do your homework.
I've done my homework, and I have only one book of reference, the Holy Bible. Hip-hop according to its creators is not music, they say, "It is a way of life" - street life. Brother Anthony, I challenge you to do your homework. If Rev. Dorsey were alive today, I believe he would also be opposed to this infiltration of ungodly music in the church.
Rev. Spencer, I knew Dr. Dorsey. I grew up at Pilgrim. my father was a pastor there. I know quite well how Dr. Dorsey would respond because during my lifetime Andre Crouch came along, and the same discussion we are having now, was had back then.... Dorsey supported Crouch, because of the lyrics. He was wise enough to know that if the lyrics glorify God the discussion is over...So please before you attempt to say what Dorsey would or would not do, please know who you say it to... I knew the man, grew up around him, sang in his choir, was able to learn from him.
First, It's Miller not Spencer, and secondly Andre Crouch is hardly a so-called Holy Hip-hopper. I think you and I are having a disconnect, it is not the lyrics that I am concerned with. You can put lipstick on a pig and it will still be a pig, just like you can put Christian lyrics to a hip-hop beat and rhythm, and it is still secular in nature it is no different than Snoop Dog's "Gin and Juice", there is nothing edifying and uplifting about it, it is for entertainment only.

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