I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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Once again, Rev Anthony,

You have proven how much of a "scholar" you are not...Your assersion is that Peter was betrayed by his "Dialect" are insane? Matthew 26:73 "his speech" gave him away.."he then; began to (curse and to swear) if it was his dialect cursing swearing would not have changed that at all! I have a mid western dialect if I go down south my voice alert people that I am not from down south - my calling someone and MF is not going to change that obiously immutable reality

I am going to break this down for you piece by piece. Apparently history was not yoru strong suit nor was linguistics. According to Holman’s Bible Dictionary a Galilean is: a person who lived in Galilee. Their speech distinguished them from the Jews in Jerusalem and Judah, particularly their difficulty in distinguishing the sound of the gutterals which are important in the Hebrew and Aramaic. Peter's Galilean speech set him apart from the courtyard crowd during Jesus' trial (Mark 14:66-72) By your logic a first century man who had just gone through the emotional trauma of seeing his mentor, his Lord taken from him by force. He is already scared to death, he is basically a coward, is in the lion’s den so to speak. He Is among those who want to kill his Lord. He knows what might happen, and you are saying that he then in the midst of this begins to preach as Christ would and this gave him away?? You need to read more often because at this time Peter is not the man he would become some 75 days later. History my brother, both biblical and secular are important to a well rounded view and well rounded ability to preach the gospel.


Here Peter made a decision to use words that Jesus would never use in order to affirm his standing apart from Jesus! here we have the same thing; you are using a little knowledge, confusing the issue because you want to be able to enjoy the songs you listen to before you got saved; and be saved at the same time if you follow Peter you will find him in the upper room and he was no longer cursing and swearing he was preaching the word of God!

Once again see above…There is no confusing of the issue, I have asked a question, I have not wavered from the topic at hand regardless of how you have wished to color it, regardless of how on your vast research methods that you have not practiced. Do I listen to the same songs I did before I got saved… I sure do, I enjoy some of them in the company of my wife I most certainly do!!! (Please tell me that when you are alone with your wife you are not listening to live recordings of old Dr. Watts songs) I can do that because I am free, I am not bound by silly rules that says touch not, taste not, handle not. Do I practice the same things of course not. Sanctification is a process, and in that process yes things are removed, and yes some things are allowed to remain, I still go to sporting events, movies, plays, I even go on vacation occasionally. I did not smoke before I got saved, did not drink, did not cuss, did not do a lot of the do nots. When I grew up, I realized that when a person is saved there are two things that have to be taken into account, three if married. 1. How they deal with God 2. How they deal with their family 3. How they deal with the world at large. How I deal with the first one, effects the other two. How I relate to God effects the remaining two. But as stated before what you had as Peter preaching in the courtyard of Herod, is utter nonsense, idealizing a person is one thing, I believe they would prefer you tell the truth about them. Peter was scared, he was frightened, he did not have the boldness that only the Holy Ghost gives, and for that reason, he did what he did, it was 75 days later that he got what he needed to preach the way he did, not before.

I am not sure what part of slavery you refrence but th fact is I don't remember reading anwhere where anyone was driving down the street with my money on my mind and mind on my money (oh yea) while drinking Jin and Juice! I don't know how you clean that song up and make it "Holy" Lol AGAIN this is not a discussion on what goes on in our respective churches; this is a topic in general on "should Hip Hop be allowed in the Church at large? and the answer is no no not ever absolutly not no way and you can't find one Bible verse that says you should!
Once again pointing out historical facts, geez man what school did you go to, and did you read on your own??? I tell you what if you google slavery work songs, they rhyme, If you look at songs that talked about the north star guess what, they rhymed too. (one of my majors was history you really want to have this conversation with me???)


With regards to Jeramiah; (Jeremiah, spell check, I always do before posting, it takes away the stigma of looking careless) he said he was not going to preach Gods word anymore "he tried to stop but his "Word" was like Fire shut up in his bones! no body is asserting that you are required to praise God quietly??? were are you getting this material?

you won't find a louder church than COGIC!


I do not know where that came from, a feeble attempt to change the subject perhaps I don’t know because I never said anything about being quiet…. But once again if this conversation is making you uncomfortable… I cannot even get a question answered properly the question I have asked is simple. What is the darkness in holy hip hop, but the perameters are you cannot use circular reasoning, you cannot invoke the secular vs the sacred. I mean let’s face it most of the music being sung in churches especially COGIC churches is gospel R&B anyway..
I notice that you are silent, that you have not answered any of the questions that I have posed. And that thus far you have not presented the challenge that you believe that you have posed. I will ask again:

1. What is the darkness within Holy Hip Hop? Deal specifically with Holy Hip Hop, using secular Hip Hop is akin to circular reasoning. (also keep in mind if you say that because it sounds like the world, over half the songs that are sung in COGIC, Baptist, churches sounds like R&B, mostly because when writing, musicians go with what they know and respect, and most musicians like various formats of music, take Richard Smallwood, he is very into classical and it shows in his playing. Donnie McClurken is into R&B and it shows in his writing.
And why should you answer my question, because this is a debate, you should want to get your point across, and show that you really know what you are talking about. That you have done the research. So far what you have shown me is that you were very attentive to Lewis, nothing more. And he is not as reliable a source as you would think.
Ok, we can agree to disagree. You dont have to believe.
Well how about this, as from the ministry Jesus has us doing we shall continue to minister in this fashion and allow the sidelines to observe. The music is just the door opening. "thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee." You all can argue your points but it not going to stop the fact that this music is not going anywhere. You can keep it from your building but you cannot keep it from the radio stations, internet radio and even the auditoriums and campuses. See we are radical in our own way just as you all from the church of old were radical in your younger day. Titles and influences keep you from having an open mind. And one thing I know that my Bishop teaches me, "what man don't understand, he seeks to destroy."

The conversation can continue yet at the same time, this music will continue. Jesus is glorified in this & with that the kingdom of God wins.
who are you calling old?
OK people here it is for those who just left this part out of ministry all together. See there are those who don't want to get their hand's dirty in the highway and hedges. We go to the hoods and the colleges and to the clubs where the "saintified folk" don't go. We "go hard for Jesus" if you would. I remember the Apostle Paul saying in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 on the policy in service, please revisit that. So how will you win a people who are not in the temples. Will going out and giving exergesis will them, no. We, as the body of Christ, are made all things to all men to gain the weak. This music is for a set time and that time is now. JESUS IS AWESOME FOR HOW HE ALLOWS THIS FREEDOM!!! Because where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty!
Amen to Min. Mitchell and Min. Anthony, it looks as if you have studied your Bibles and have given in to the Word despite tradition. Min. Day, I truly believe that you are man of God that has won many to the kingdom, God bless you! Min. Miller, I have nothing but respect for you and I believe that if you are about soul- winning, that is all that matters. Sis. Angela it seems as though you have prejudice against those who disagree with, be careful because that is dangerous and cause your witness to be ineffective. I would challenge to go back over those scriptures that you quoted and tell me where any of those texts say that God is against any style of music, when the lyrics have been derived from His words. Please explain. Use some hermenutics please, if you can't discuss with scholarship, it would be best that you not respond.
Pastor Ray I believe when you wish to respond you should ensure you respond to the right person. I have certainly not quoted any Scripture in my arguments, so before you give advice it is necessary for you to know to whom you are giving them. And also Pastor are you implying that only the learn can discus matters relating to God and his divinity. That is sad. In case that is your assertion Pastor I am involve in the study of Theology so does that now make me qualify to discuss the topic with scholars

It would seem with that one statement alone you have are more in common with the attitude of the Pharisses than the people who oppose Hip Hip.

I
In all, we MUST protect the integrity of the Holy Ghost. We can agree to disagree and be intelligent human beings in the same process.
Pastor Jones,

I am praying for you! You seem to continue to avoid the issue and your attempt to deflect attention away from the real issue by befriending people that might share your view and "attacking others who don't" at the same time attempting to elevate yourself as a "schollar" is realy embarasing since most of the apostles and were not scharlors themseves...never the less; sir you keep bringing up the "Lyrics" WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT LYRICS SIR" WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MUSIC THAT IS USED TO CARRY THE LYRICS" IT IS UNGODLY, UNHOLY, IMORAL, SIK, SATAN ARRANGED AND DEMONICALLY INSPIRED - You can't clean that up brother; its unclean! touch not, taste not, go not near it and pass not by it "The unclean thing" and you sir are not walking all over it; you and your hermulitics are tryng to get the rest of us to feed it to our flocks! are you Crazy? You read your bible and tell me where that is acceptable!

If you won't to talk to some (Real) Brothers who can deal on the streets come on down to Detroit!


Pastor Hodge
"lyrics" by definition are part of the song. You cannot have a song without lyrics. The type of music being debated here includes lyrics....

If the Word is the lyric it does not lose power or are you being silly and saying that it does? Have you done any research on your own or are you simply regurgitating something that you "heard" without actually studying it for yourself? I also see that you have an issue with insecurity because no one here has said that you should or have to "feed it to your flock" no one here has said anything close to that. It is all about choice. if you do not by all means do not, but please be man enough to not condemn those that do. Its not your place....
What did you mean by this:

If you won't to talk to some (Real) Brothers who can deal on the streets come on down to Detroit!

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