This is a widely debated topic now , not just for the World but for Chuch and Christians.

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OK this is strikingly amazing, there are multiple opinions and many have posted and many answered, debates and answers. Dr Brown, I could not help but notice that you couched your question. When I say couched I mean that you asked it in a way that would require one to answer in either a yay or nay form.  Most times when one asks a question like this, one should do so with the caveat of granting all the necessary information for the respondents to answer in an intellectually honest fashion. Otherwise what you wind up getting are answers that more in line with your point of view that would not be an honest view if what you are looking for are honest answers, and since you asked the question on a “Christian” website I would like to think that you are looking for honest answers.

Wayne if you do not mind me saying your stance is a very religious one.  Unfortunately it is not a realistic one. You would argue just for arguments sake I have seen you at least in this thread attempt to bully, berate, and bait people into arguments that are irrelevant to the subject. To say that Marq’s statement about the church learning what marriage really is before speaking of it to others is apropos in that even the Bible tells us that if we speak before listening we are fools.. (Prov. 18:13). While it is true that we all get our beliefs and they should guide us one has to also realize that the US is a pluralistic nation with many cultures that have shaped who we are. For example on the building that houses the SCOTUS one will see Moses, but also Confucius, and the moral systems of other cultures are also represented.  Knowing this one has to look big picture, something I have not seen in this thread, and once again Dr while you solicited opinions you seem to want to berate those that do not agree with yours.  Has anyone here given thought to why the homosexual community might want legal protection under the law? Has anyone here given thought to the rationale as foisted by the gentleman you mentioned Wayne, Robert A. J. Gagnon, as to why they should not have protection under the law? See here is where there appears to be a mix of religion and politics, something that history has shown us is as unsavory as sirloin steak served medium, with mushroom, garlic mash, with a side of crab legs with drawn butter, on a pooper scooper. Mixing the state with religion is true folly people get murdered as a result; there is not one good thing that comes of it. There is a reason why Roger Williams first came up with the idea of religious disestablishment, (the absence of a state church) It is the entanglement of church and state compromises the functions of both. It is sad that those who follow Christ run to the thing, the only thing He ran from…But that is a discussion for another time.  I like the way that Gerald formed it, frankly marriage in this country is a legal binding contract, yes it has spiritual meaning and signifigance but overall it is administered not by the church, but by the state.  Yes as the church we do have something to say about it because of what it represents, however one cannot ignore that it is administered by the state, that there are laws that regulate it as well as mandate how it is to be handled in our judicial system. Further the argument has to be made as to the citizenship of the homosexual community in the US, are they citizens? If they are then there is the fourteenth amendment to the constitution to be contend with, and if it is rendered null then what is to stop them from coming after black folks, after all the whole point of the amendment is to offer protection of freed slaves after the civil war. If it is removed then all that was fought for in the civil rights movement can (and if the religious right has anything to say about it, will be) undone.. If they are not they have no standing under the law and can be dealt with any way the state sees fit. Here are the ironic questions that beg to be asked, from a spiritual point of view…

What is the worth assigned to them by God?

Did Christ die for them as well?

Are we as the church obliged to serve all we come in contact with, or just a few?

What was the example of Christ?

How did Jesus treat those who were marginalized by the society of the first century (women, sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors)?

And finally why is it that we are so willing to deal with this sin as though it is the paramount of sins, and yet we are willing to wink at divorce, or theft, or adultery, or even abuse?

Just a few random thoughts going through my head when I read what was written here.

Oh and Wayne, before you cast one of the questions as being irrelevant, think Prov 18:13 One cannot intellectually speak to an issue until all factors and questions have been asked and answered. That is the point of what Solomon was saying. And I like to think that there is a difference between between being religious and being honest...

Yes Jesus Christ died for sin & he died & loves everyone. but he does not love the sin. Sodom & Gomerah was destroyed because of the acts between men. We have to stand on the True Word not the fads or the times.
Ok and the other questions I posed Dr, what of those? You gave a partial answer.  The questions I posed to not tie in to fads but they hopefull will cause thought as opposed to religious posturing.

Jonathan:

 

Nice try my friend, but you still miss the point! What I  have addressed is the topic/question that is put before us on this thread. I have given the biblical/Christian response to the question as to whether same sex marriage is legitimate and the answer is a resounding "NO!" There is nothing legitimate about two men sodomizing each other. God Himself has given us His will, intention, and purpose for the institution of marriage and the family, and He has not stuttered!

 

The problem with many in the church today is that we're willing to embrace a politically correct platform and deny the very clear teaching of the Scriptures on the subject. Contrary to some, I cannot play both sides; as a Christian, my biblical worldview informs my politics, and it is for that reason that I could NEVER EVER embrace, approve, or sanction sexual perversion/immorality on any level for any reason.

 

I have actually heard professing Christians try to separate the two by saying, "people should have their civil rights" and then in the next breath claim to hold a Christian perspective about these issues. The Civil Rights struggle is in no way connected to homosexuals demanding to shove their perverted lifestyle down society's throat. Therefore, Blacks will ALWAYS reject that argument as we should!

 

Finally, I am very aware of other sins in the world, and all of them have been addressed at the cross of Calvary. However, what we're dealing with is a class of people trying to redefine marriage and the family as we know it and as God has ordained it, and it is for that reason why the Christian community and others are up in arms about it.

 

Lastly, and sadly, we have many Black ministers/lay people in the church that are gay themselves, and they want to shove their own agenda down the throats of everyone to fit their own deviant lifestyle. For the record, the biblical description of homosexuality demonstrates clearly as to how God feels about this particular sin. So I leave you with how God Himself describes homosexuality: "Unnatural, against nature, shameful, degrading, vile/inordinate affection, an error, and it has a penalty: the Judgment of Almighty God!" (Romans 1:24-28)

Nice try my friend, but you still miss the point! What I  have addressed is the topic/question that is put before us on this thread. I have given the biblical/Christian response to the question as to whether same sex marriage is legitimate and the answer is a resounding "NO!" There is nothing legitimate about two men sodomizing each other. God Himself has given us His will, intention, and purpose for the institution of marriage and the family, and He has not stuttered

You gave your feelings this is true, I share in those feelings, however I think it is a lot of us who have also missed the point. I never said that there was nothing legitimate as to the practice of homosexuality, the questions I posed were simply this, has anyone here considered the big picture? Why is it that there is such a push, now knowing you based on your writings you are going to give the religious answer, and you even give it in the diatribe you gave in responding to me, and the sad truth is that you did not even bother to respond to the questions I posed..sadly typical. Knee jerk reaction with no thought as to the actual rationale behind actions.

The problem with many in the church today is that we're willing to embrace a politically correct platform and deny the very clear teaching of the Scriptures on the subject. Contrary to some, I cannot play both sides; as a Christian, my biblical worldview informs my politics, and it is for that reason that I could NEVER EVER embrace, approve, or sanction sexual perversion/immorality on any level for any reason.

Notice as I sad before to mix the sacred with politics has been shown time and again in history to be foolishness. You are likely one who believes in taking America back for Jesus. Tell me my friend when was America ever God’s was it when the first colonists murdered the native Americans? Or perhaps it was when our ancestors were brought across in chains? No? Was it perhaps when the native Americans of the west were cheated of their land? Or perhaps it was when the Japanese were interred for no other reason other than being Japanese? Sadly my friend this country is not nor has it ever been, nor can any country claim to be a Christian nation.

I have actually heard professing Christians try to separate the two by saying, "people should have their civil rights" and then in the next breath claim to hold a Christian perspective about these issues. The Civil Rights struggle is in no way connected to homosexuals demanding to shove their perverted lifestyle down society's throat. Therefore, Blacks will ALWAYS reject that argument as we should!

I never said that the civil rights movement was connected, are you serious my friend attempting to put words in my mouth? The question about citizenship is how this will ultimately be decided in court. While there is religious ferver and indeed there is, the truth of the matter is that it will be decided in the courts. Not the pulpit, and yes we can protest, yes we can vote to attempt to change it but the sad truth is that unless and until the governing document of this country is changed, it can and ultimately will be decided in court. Am I condoning it, no, I am simply stating the facts as they are, as uncomfortable as they may appear they are nonetheless  the facts.

Finally, I am very aware of other sins in the world, and all of them have been addressed at the cross of Calvary. However, what we're dealing with is a class of people trying to redefine marriage and the family as we know it and as God has ordained it, and it is for that reason why the Christian community and others are up in arms about it.

Once again you fail to see big picture. Are you aware as to the reason why, not the reason you were told but the one you actually got up and did some legwork to determine ON YOU OWN! Not what you  were told or the talking points you were given but what you actually researched and discovered on your own. I think that if you do, while it may not change your mind, but you will actually see that there are things that do need to change from a legal perspective.

 

Lastly, and sadly, we have many Black ministers/lay people in the church that are gay themselves, and they want to shove their own agenda down the throats of everyone to fit their own deviant lifestyle. For the record, the biblical description of homosexuality demonstrates clearly as to how God feels about this particular sin. So I leave you with how God Himself describes homosexuality: "Unnatural, against nature, shameful, degrading, vile/inordinate affection, an error, and it has a penalty: the Judgment of Almighty God!" (Romans 1:24-28)

As does every sin… and your point is what? There are ministers/lay people who steal, cheat on their taxes, cheat on their respective spouses, lie, obfuscate, and the like, steal, get drunk and all manner of sin, and ALL OF IT GETS THEM TO THE SAME PLACE so once again will you please answer the questions I posed as opposed to giving a religious discourse?

Lol the funny thing is he can't answer them.

His personal hatred and disgust overtakes the "love of Christ" he is supposed to have for is brothers and sisters.

Hmm, I guess he is showing us who he really is.

Jesus did say we'd know them by their fruit.

 

I hope that is not the reason. The whole point of me posting on this board is to provoke thought. Some here do not think before posting, still others regurgitate what they have heard across the pulpit without benefit of having actually thought about what was said. I would hope  that my bothers and sisters are not that sort. That they do think deeply and love just as hard. But the sad thing is that some answers as sweetly sanctimonious as they are, are pitifully wrong, and based on bad hermenutics

Johnathon,

 

One thing I've learned about church folk (being that I was born and raised in the black penetcostal church) is that they oly know the Word of God when it comes to the sin(s) they don't agree with.

You can give them all types of scriptures to prove how wrong they are in their deeds and words to others however if it is not something they don't agree with then they will throw the Bible at you, dismiss you and even call you names and belittle you- all in the name of the Lord.

In regards to those types of saints I just ignore them and move on because those are the MAIN ONES who are hiding their ACTIVE sins in ecret while preaching damnation to others.

 

Amazing point MarQ it would seem that way wouldn't it. Its sad to tell the truth, they are so concerned with the grain of sand in the eyes of others that they will not consider the redwood forest in thier own eyes

 

One preacher on here was damning homosexuals HOWEVER one of his favorite gospel artists is a WELL-KNOWN homosexual in the black gospel community.

When I advised him of this "all of a sudden" he wasn't concerned with this man's sexuality because he was doing "the work of the Lord."

So basically, if the homosexual is a well-known gospel artist/preacher/bishop he can get a "pass" on being judged but a young man in the audience who is homosexual can be condemned?

It is nothing more than hypocrisy and Jesus spoke against hypocrisy in length- however they have somehow "forgot" that part of the Bible.

Hypocrisy sends you to hell too last time I checked?!

Well Here is the thing MarQ it is sad that the church has allowed herself to be used to further an agenda that does not have thier best interest at heart. A few decades ago the church was engaged for purely political reasons against abortions. It is a horrific practice but yet one that should be recognized for what it is, a choice and practice that every woman is going to have to give an account for. Something that ultimately the state has no business dealing with. Now here it is some thirty years later and yet the issue has not come to a head, has not been dealt a fatal blow, none of those things have happened. Also in 2004 everyone was screaming about the gay agenda, everyone was screaming about a constitutional amendment to ban it. Here is the thing, as soon as the election was over with all the leaders of the religious right fell silent. The people who promised a constitutional amendment all of a  sudden lost thier backbone. Why is that?  Why is it that the church has pet sins, sins that they are willing to wink at sins that they are willing to allow in thier midst and speak nothing of them, but there are others to which no compassion is shown, No love, and what is sad is that one fails to recognize that showing love towards a sinner in no way condones thier actions, it is sad that as opposed to living the life of Christ so many from the pulpit live the life of the Pharaees...

I agree with every Word stated.

The church is now nothing more than an elitist business and country club.

When you are in you in.

When you out they'll let you know you out.

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