This is a widely debated topic now , not just for the World but for Chuch and Christians.

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Wayne, when we first started this conversation you were alright. But as every argument and point you made was unwrapped like a candy wrapper, you went on attack mode. 

I could care less if you called me gay, straight, crooked or late for dinner. The truth is, a man's words exposes his heart and fears.  In your world, being exposed as homosexual is a nightmare.  Being called gay when you are not, is demeaning in your world.  In mine?

I could care less. If others are really concerned with my sexuality they can easily google or search for me to find out why I am so passionate about the issue of Religious Based Heterosexism and the Black Church.  I have a book, "The Church Has AIDS: Essays on Sexuality, Sexual Orientation, Taboos and the Black Church" that looks closely at this issue.

 

Over the years I have encountered many men like you, so angry and bitter but why?

 

 

Lets comment, but lets stay in love, lets disagree with becoming disagreeable..Its good to have every one be so honest. rather we agree or not ,we need to talk & have dialog. As  we dont agree with all thanks for being so honest in your answers,We stand of the Word but we love all of you with The True Agape Love Of Jesus..Lets keep talking its healthy , we keep so much bottled up. in us.

Well, Gerald they always told me a it pig will squeal.

 

He may be dealing with his sexuality.

 

I know there are PLENTY homosexual preachers hiding on this site alone- I've encountered a few of them.

 

When I encounter men like Wayne I just pray that their minds and hearts are healed because the only way to be healed is to know the reason for the pain.

 

 

You are so correct MarQ.  I see it all the time.  I really feel for those like Wayne.  I am being truthful about that. I pray that they take the healing journey and if they need me, I am there.
@ Gerald I just read your story I applaud your efforts sir. I think if people were to stop and take a breath and check the religious sanctimony at the door and engage in an adult conversation, (notice I said an adult conversation, unfortunately the conversations that Wayne has had are anything but I suspect) Nonetheless I believe that if people were to really understand what the motivating factors are. If people were to really see the plight of not just the homosexuals but every group of sinners that the church, especially the black church turns its back on. If people who have Rev, or Bishop, or Apostle, or Pastor would really get off the kick that they should be served to, and understand that its the other way around, we might actually be able to make a difference. I live in a city where there could be three churches on the same block, and the pastors do not speak, and the area is surrounded by liquor stores, poverty, drugs, gangs. All this so called power and all the so little impact because as opposed to working together they are in competition. Its sad truly sad.
The comments are still coming in. People should not hide, we should be truthful. Our views on this subject are the same as the Bible. This is a problem in the Church & the World to hear many say Pastors are caught up living a double  life some of them, Male & Female.We have Great Men & Women of God that stirve  to be  true , we sure  work on this . ,As we  Pray seek to be Accountable to be a good light , we strive as well  in our secret lives to live Holy  so we can be an example to help people.
I hear what your saying but sin is sin regardless of which one it is.  All sin and sinners should be convicted when exposed to the truth.  Yes i agree sin is the one sin the church is hard core against. We ought to try working on the sin of gossip and killing with our tongue.  And taking scripture twisting it to fit personal motives and agendas.  However the church can not create an atmosphere to where this lifestyle is accepted without a desire to change.  We all got issues we working on, but we can not stop working on it and present an atmosphere that accepts any sin.  There are some preachers that have clubs in which anything goes.  like a secret society.  All of this is a mess.  But we must stand for righteousness regardless of who gets offended or regardless of the fact that we not perfect. 

Bishop I think there is some confusion between being loving towards someone in the sin, and condoning it. I believe that there are many who are fearful that if they show mercy, that if they love and serve the sinner, that somehow they will lose whatever salvation they think they have. Is this not something that was disputed by the life of Christ. Those to whom He endeared Himself the most to, the prostitutes, the adulterers, the sinners, and the ones the religious leaders of that century thought the least of. Why is it that the church that is called by His name seemingly has forgotten that our ministry is not to each other as much as it is for those sinners that we tend to shun

Yes this is a widely debated topic.  But among christians what can the debate be about?  I know this is an old post but I just so happen to stumble across it today.  From a biblical perspective, I have learned that what I think and how I feel does not matter.  Though this subject is debatable in congress, it should never be when it comes to the Lord's people.  What does the word say?  How we minister to the gay community is the greatest concern.  I'm a firm believer that God loves us all. Some of us are liars, cheaters, fornicators, adultureres, theives, and yes gay.  There is sin is less socially acceptable.  We must remember God loves the sinner and hates the sin.  None of us are no different for all have sinned.  We as christians like to classify good sin from bad sin.  With that said, I always appraoch all questions not from my perspective but How does God feel about it?  Dr. Brown these questions i'm not posing to you.  I'm sure you know.  As believers our stance should always be the word vice feelings which got this country on the path that it is on now.  I have family members and friends that struggle with this "lifestyle" of sin.  However the word is still the word.  My professor says anytime we are trying to answer a question about God we must start at the beginning which is Genesis.  From the beginning God gave us the design for marriage.  2 Tim 3:3 Without natural affection verse 4.  lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.  I believe we are familiar with all scripture concerning this subject.  My question is not much how do we feel about?  But how do open gay christians clergy translate the scripture? But I think the most profound answer comes from Jesus when he was talking to Nicodemus, when he said "You must be born again!" 
Do not think this topic is to be debated. The Bible is clear . Yes we have all types of sin and they are wrong. The reason this post was started by us we have so many people struggling with this Spirit. some were raped , molested, Just got caught in the Fads, many want to be delivered but what we have heard from them you have so many Pastors, Male & Female, Singers, Fivefold Ministry Gifts & professing Christians   alleged involved in this life style , few spoke  up .that we have sent a message of confusion to those that want help & the World. So we thought we could come together & reason as the Word states & we welcomed all opinions & thought  maybe healing & restoration would take place and People would be saved, Our answers should not be based on our  our guilt,, our lifestyles or fads but the True Word Of God.We can live saved my late Husband passed in 2000, I am living a life  of  being totally celebrant to this day waiting for the perfect will of God  in marriage. There are many Worldwide with  testimonies . It was not because we were so Holy but we became accountable to God , Gods Word, The Right Godly People , not just Church people, watched our Associations, our Surroundings,& Enviroment , what we allowed in our ear & eye gate, fasting Prayer, Discipline in our lives and right choices.. We have never bashed a person on this Blog or became combative . We have respected all views & disagreed with becoming disagreeable. We stand on the Word concerning these views and feel many have let the standards down as Christians & Pastors for our fleshy desires. God loves everyone but not the sin. What can we tell the World about accepting Jesus when we are caught up in all they are caught up in , how can we help them. Was looking for some one to Blog & respond they were caught up in this and this was wrong & not follow in there footsteps. True Agape Love Of Jesus to all. Lets continue to share our views with Great Respect & Dignity for each other & there views rather right or wrong.

I think and this of course is my opinion is that when you have a person like Wayne who is more religious than realistic. And when you have a person like Min Palmer who is passionate about his service, sometimes the middle ground gets blurred. The Bible does teach us that if we see our enemy or those who are opposed to us thirsty, we are commanded to give them water, if they are hungry, we are commanded to give them food, homeless, we are commanded to give them shelter… This is something that unfortunately  does not fly because we have allowed our religious views to cloud, and color what we are supposed to be about. It is not the job of the church to point out the sin in others. People who are sinners already know that they are sinners, they do not need us to point it out for them. Paul tells us that we should consider ourselves the chief of sinners,( I Tim 1:15, contrary to popular belief, Paul did not call himself the chief of sinners he was saying that we all need to accept that we in the church have to concede that we are the chief of sinners) not others but the men and women we see in the mirror. But we don’t, we would rather attempt to give ourselves a feeling of superiority by pointing out the sins of others. Its rather sad, that we feel we have no worth if we are not making other people feel bad about themselves. Notice I said religious views, not biblical views, but religious, perhaps we would do well to really examine some of our views in the light of scripture concerning what we should be about.

In short to be brief, yes Lev does say that homosexuality is an abomination. However what was the example of JESUS when He dealt with sinners, did He point out the sins of the sinners around Him of course not. He did berate the religious establishment for thier failure to see the unsurpassable worth of sinners around them. Did His holiness drive them away, or draw them to Him? Yes it is called an abomination, but our behavior towards them has been abysmal. If Jesus can love and not condone, then pretell why is it that we are afraid to get our hands dirty? Are we so cowardly that we fear that whatever sin will overtake us? Who is it that we claim to trust to keep us?

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