Dear Minister Gerald Palmer:
After reading your statement about SSM, I was appalled and horrified by someone who purports to be a minister of the Lord Jesus Christ, and then claim that marriage is not a church thing. Who do you think created marriage and the family? If marriage is not a "church thing", then who's thing is it? It is certainly not the government's thing! God is the author of marriage and He alone has the right to define it, and He already have! Jesus affirmed Heterosexual marriage in Matthew 19:4-6:
And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a]them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Jesus makes it clear that God created "Male and Female", and designed them to "be fruitful and multiply", and that the male and female alone can experience the "one-flesh" union. I am totally amazed by people who claim to speak for God, and yet they have no problem with violating the Word of God for their own purposes.
I don't know if you are a pastor, but if you are, my heart goes out to your congregation! If I was looking for a church, there is no way I'd join your church because you seemed either biblically illiterate or you simply do not care about the clear teaching of the Word of God! This is so sad and tragic that you would think that after all God has said about homosexuality/sodomy, that you would think that God would sanction, ordain, and approve one sexual pervert sodomizing another sexual pervert in the name "love".
Praying for You!
Wayne again, legalized marriage is not a church thing, it is a government thing. Does the church or your local state decide who is legally married or not? It is the state not the church. The church decides whom they marry and the state/government decides who is legally married. God will decide if God recognizes a marriage not the church.
You claim that I am biblically illiterate and yet you ignore the context of scripture. You take a lil bit of Mathew 19 and run with it.
Actually my friend in order to understand what is happening here you need verses 1-11 to get the full detail of what is taking place. Jesus was actually restating what had been taught in response to the Pharisee who were trying to trip Jesus up on divorce.
Now if you want to, I can rip apart your whole argument in a matter of minutes because you have some mighty flaws in your response to me. Would you rather I do that or would you rather agree to disagree. You may want to do that. I pray for you as well.
First, you cannot and have not "ripped apart my whole argument in a matter of minutes." If you even attempted, eternity wouldn't be long enough as you would fail. Contextually, Jesus is clear on His affirmation of the "male - Female" relationship and "one-flesh" union. He then goes on to say, "What God has put together, let not man put asunder!" I can assure you that God has and only will put together a "MALE & FEMALE", not two sodomites that are perverted!
Furthermore, whenever you read about the principles of marriage in the Bible as well as the family, the Holy Spirit clearly leads the writer's to accentuate and highlight the MALE -FEMALE union as husband and wife, and Mother and Father and children. Nowhere in the Scripture do we see the perverted union of a so-called "same - sex marriage". That is because it doesn't exist and is an aberration and find its source in the demonic realm.
The church speaks for God as the "foundation and pillar of the truth", and as such, we simply share the Word as God has given it to His church, the Body of Christ. So once again, God is the creator of marriage and the family, not the Government! Furthermore, the Government is subject and accountable to God and His laws; they are not a separate entity that operates apart from that reality. Perhaps you need to abreast yourself of Romans 13:1-7 and see this truth for yourself.
The bottom line is homosexuality according to the Bible is "an abomination, unnatural, against nature, shameful, degrading, an error, wicked, and has a penalty: the personal judgment of Almighty God!" (Romans 1:24-28; 1 Cor. 6:9-10) For the record, I've read your previous responses and the responses of the people that responded to you, and several of us are wondering if you might be a member of the Sodomite fraternity! Have a great day.
Wayne your argument is that marriage is a church thing and all the other homosexual stuff.
Hey I could be wrong with what I am about to say but I lean on The Holy Spirit for correction if I am wrong.
First you launch into the typical cowardly cyber attack that is common due to our online society. The face to face is eliminated which gives many of us the belief that we can talk to anybody and everybody in any manner.
To be honest I was bored yesterday when I responded to you and thought it would be funny to get you going with my rip your argument apart line. When we are working out the flesh we are determined not be wrong, to win the argument as your response shows.
I will address what you were saying. I will start with your comments and respond.
"First, you cannot and have not "ripped apart my whole argument in a matter of minutes." If you even attempted, eternity wouldn't be long enough as you would fail."
Hmm, let's see.
"Contextually, Jesus is clear on His affirmation of the "male - Female" relationship and "one-flesh" union. He then goes on to say, "What God has put together, let not man put asunder!" I can assure you that God has and only will put together a "MALE & FEMALE", not two sodomites that are perverted!"
Nope, again this has nothing to do with Jesus affirming anything, that is not the context of that scripture. It was actually about divorce,
context is according to Webster:
You still are ignoring the context of the scripture you are attempting to use.
"Furthermore, whenever you read about the principles of marriage in the Bible as well as the family, the Holy Spirit clearly leads the writer's to accentuate and highlight the MALE -FEMALE union as husband and wife, and Mother and Father and children. Nowhere in the Scripture do we see the perverted union of a so-called "same - sex marriage". That is because it doesn't exist and is an aberration and find its source in the demonic realm."
The argument from silence is not effective. yes, you are not going to find a promotion of gay marriage in the Bible because, for the most part, the ancients would not understand the concept (and since many Jews believed that the only purpose of sex was to have a child, one can see why a homosexual relationship would not be considered; so unless you wish to claim that the only reason to have sex is to have children. don't run to a biblical marriage line.
What are some other pilars of marriage do you see in The Bible that you follow?
"The church speaks for God as the "foundation and pillar of the truth", and as such, we simply share the Word as God has given it to His church, the Body of Christ. So once again, God is the creator of marriage and the family, not the Government! Furthermore, the Government is subject and accountable to God and His laws; they are not a separate entity that operates apart from that reality. Perhaps you need to abreast yourself of Romans 13:1-7 and see this truth for yourself."
Again sir, if you are married, what are the steps you have to legally take and why? My argument is not saying that marriage does not come from God, my argument is that here right now lgbt folk are seeking legal marriage from our government and what does Jesus say about government? When we allow our religious beliefs control our politics we are in trouble. Have you not learned anything from slavery and the civil rights movement or even the women suffrage movement? These were citizens who fought wrongs that others used their religious beliefs to make right.
"The bottom line is homosexuality according to the Bible is "an abomination, unnatural, against nature, shameful, degrading, an error, wicked, and has a penalty: the personal judgment of Almighty God!" (Romans 1:24-28; 1 Cor. 6:9-10)"
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
So, since you use Lev. 18:22 against the homosexual (this is the only place we see what we think as homosexuality called an abomination) I bet you know that there are other abominations that folk like you are quiet on. And also do you follow the entire law?
Leviticus 11:10" "But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you."
Deuteronomy 22:5: "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God."
Deuteronomy 24:4" "then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD."
Now as you fix your hands to type the typical response to what I laid out, I want you to cosinder the word context again.
Romans 1:24-28. Of course you are using it against those in the sodemite fraternity (what a nice term from a Christian) however don't forget:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
Now historical context will teach us that the Roman culture practiced pagan religions that used idols carved in the shapes of both animals and humans. As part of these religions they relied on sexual rituals involving temple prostitution both same sex and heterosexual. This is about same sex sexual practices in regards to pagan religion, not homosexuality as we know it.
Now I could be wrong but I will always error on the side of God's love and His truth. Now as far as your use of 1 Cor.6:9-10 hmm I will wait for your response on the others.
Your last statement:
"several of us are wondering if you might be a member of the Sodomite fraternity! Have a great day".
Hmm, instead of wondering if Gerald is gay because he stands up to biblical ignorance
you should probably in your words abreast yourself to this:
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Your argument has been ripped,lol
First, I think you have confirmed my and others concerned about your membership. Second, your responses are so very typical "gayish" and are very easily debunked. So let me help you out again.
Of course, Jesus points in the Matthew passage is dealing with divorce. What you missed however is that in making a point about divorce, He affirms the "Male -Female" relationship in the context of a. Creation and b. Marriage.
In other words, God created male and female and ordained that they, not two perverted men sodomizing each other in the Butt in the name of "love", would experience spiritual intimacy and a "one-flesh" union that can ONLY occur within the male - female structure! That is the point. We already know that in Malachi, God says, "I hate divorce".
Therefore, even in talking about divorce, Jesus affirms what "God hath put together", which is a man and a woman! As to your charge that the people in the Bible wouldn't know anything about homosexuality, it is as stupid as an argument can get. Paul and Moses clearly understood what homosexuality was/is! That perversion has been going on ever since Adam felled in the Garden.
Because they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, they wrote in context with what God had already revealed. Homosexuality is an ugly, nasty, perverted, unnatural, shameful, and degrading behavior that God hates as evidenced by the word "abomination", which comes from a Hebrew word that means "The Detestable Thing!"
Marriage in the Scripture always depicts a male-female connection because God the Holy Spirit is the author of the Word of God! Why else would it depict only that union? It is because God knows of no other union that He ordained except the MALE - FEMALE relationship. Stop trying to justify your sinful cravings and that of your fraternity members by misrepresenting God's position on this nasty lifestyle.
Yes, God will indeed "judge the secrets of the hearts of people through our Lord Jesus Christ" as His Word clearly states, and it is for that reason that all members of the "Booty Boy" club should shutter and quake...even if they wear the title "Minister", etc.
Your response is very "Gayish". I mean you speak just like members from the Sodomite community. I hate absolutely no one, gay or straight! I do hate that people that are biblically illiterate and then to see them purport to be something that they clearly are not: a minister. No genuine "Man of God" would butcher the Scriptures and approve of that which God hates and calls it "The Detestable Thing!" That is why the unbelieving world doesn't believe us; they've seem too much.
And for the record, there is a major problem among Black clergy: we have too many Booty Boys in the pulpit! It is a darn shame and some of them have large ministries and are known by the masses. Eddie Long is but one example of a sexual pervert in the pulpit. There are many, many more!
Again you fail to address any thing of substance. You state that you don't hate anyone but then describe who you hate. You confess how you don't hate gay or straight but call my response gayish and continue to call gay men booty boys.
It is quite clear that you have a disdain for gay men, far more of a disdain than what we see from the Bible. You say more about homosexuality than any of the major or minor prophets, your dislike and hate for gay men is not supported by the Word of God. That is all you and yet you try to paint your behavior as one who is speaking for God.
You want to know why unbelieving folks run from the church? People like you. You say you don't hate gays but your negative tone towards gay men and only gay men is quite evident. You speak nothing of lesbians only gay men and how disgusting and vile etc. That is all you.
You say it is not hate but it is truly not love.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Again you can call me all the names in the book but that does not hide the fact that you do not know God because you do not know love.
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love
Again if you believe homosexuality is a sin and you believe that gay marriage is a sin that is fine but shouldn't we be able to treat those that we think are in sin better than the world does.
Once again your argument is "gayish!" I hate no gay person. What I hate and what every Christian hate is to see people butcher the Word of God to make it fit their lifestyle. That is wrong! The bottom line is homosexuality is a nasty perversion that God has promised to judge and is already judging. Yes, we're suppose to love everybody let alone homosexuals, so I fail to see anything that you've written that is a new revelation. For the most part, Gays are full of it with their cries of "give me my rights".
For the record, here is what Elena Kagan said at her confirmation hearing for the SCOTUS: "There is no right to same sex marriage in the Constitution" (May 2010) So the rest of us are literally sick and tired of hearing that worn out cry. God ordained one union only: MALE & FEMALE!
Wayne you stated this: "What I hate and what every Christian hate is to see people butcher the Word of God to make it fit their lifestyle".
Then stop doing it!! And yes gay folks do deserve their rights. You sound like the Southern Christian in 1950's talking about Coloreds.
And lastly you have not addressed anything or fix the scriptures that you butchered.