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I guess when God begins to pour out his wrath on the world in Revelation 14:17-20 he's going to do it with love, his wrath is going to kill billions of people and he's going to do it with love. people love their children and if their children did anything wrong they will only punished them or spank them. But God kills and then punishes with an everlasting hell fire. And he does this with LOVE?

Come on now, I know it's a hard and bitter pill to swallow but God does hate, if he hated in the old testament, he is the same today and tomorrow. If he looks at us through the shed blood of His Son like you have stated, then why is hell enlarging itself? Why are people going to hell? If he looks at all of us through the blood then no one should be going to hell.
Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity
I belive that God loves everybody even those who are in hell and those that are going to hell. It's the evil spirit that he doesn't like the spirit that causes them to sin, who is the devil the adversary.

Pastor Williams
They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. 22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn F101 unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. 23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. 24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. 25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-10 ...A time to love, and a time to hate. God shows his love when it is time for love, it is obvious that the above passage is not showing the Love of God
Brother Watson, no one is saying that God is a God of Hatred. That is taking what we are saying out of context. Now, I mean no disrespect to you, but listen to what we are saying.

This God all love doctrine is not according to the scriptures, it is Universalism, When the scripture says God is love, this is true, but God also punishes the sinner and hates all who do iniquity.

Let's reason with one another, the Apostle Paul described God's love in Hebrews 12: 6... For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

So then if a person is without chastisement is not his son, and they are not the object of his love, Why? because God loved them and sent his Son to die for them and they repented not, and they rejected his love and continued to live in sin and now have become the object of his wrath. They are not his children, they are of their father the Devil. A person without chastisement is without the love of God, They are bastards

It is what it is, Amen?
Brother Watchman all I can say to this post is Praise God for Him loving us first! Great explanation my Brother in Christ!
Here are just a few of the things that God 'hates':

Jeremiah 44:5-6 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods. 6 Wherefore my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day. Howbeit I sent unto you all My servants the prophets, sending them betimes and often, saying: Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate.

Amos 5:21 I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

Amos 6:8 The Lord GOD hath sworn by Himself, saith the LORD, the God of hosts: I abhor the pride of Jacob, and hate his palaces; and I will deliver up the city with all that is therein.

Zechariah 8:17 and let none of you devise evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath; for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.’

Malachi 2:16 For I hate putting away, saith the LORD, the God of Israel, and him that covereth his garment with violence, saith the LORD of hosts; therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

Even so, we are often taught that God is opposed to evil. However, that is not an entirely accurate statement. God opposes evil because evil opposes Him. The difference is slight, but the consequences are significant. Understanding is found in comprehending the scripture where declares that it was Himself that created evil. See Isaiah 45:4-8. And, has commanded demons to do His bidding even in the affairs of men. See Judges 9:23-24 & 1 Samuel 16:14-15 for examples. Of course, we should forget Paul and his 'thorn' or God setting the terms and conditions that even Satan had to follow in his engagements with Job.

Other problems arise when we combine the judgment of the unrepentant with the judgment of the Saints. For we must always remember that in addition to being a God of love, full of compassion and forgiving, God is also holy, just, and righteous. Yet, we still find ourselves judging God actions and His motives according to our own standards of right and wrong – not according to His standards. We impute to God the same hidden motives and agendas that we ourselves hold in secret. Our hearts are a deceitful thing.
Brother Bowman, this statement of yours is so true:

Other problems arise when we combine the judgment of the unrepentant with the judgment of the Saints. For we must always remember that in addition to being a God of love, full of compassion and forgiving, God is also holy, just, and righteous. Yet, we still find ourselves judging God actions and His motives according to our own standards of right and wrong – not according to His standards. We impute to God the same hidden motives and agendas that we ourselves hold in secret. Our hearts are a deceitful thing.

We judge all things with our way of thinking using our standards as though it is higher than God's. It's as stated in scripture that "how can the pottery know the Potter". We only know what He allows us to know through the Holy Spirit and being His children He wants us to know it all but we have to show our sincerity to truly want that. Our wisdom is foolishness to Him.
The word hate in the passage in dealing with Esua is From a primary misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension, to love less -- hate(-ful). This is the Greek

Look at the English definition of hate: to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; to detest, intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

The common word here is to detest, this is how God felt about Esau, but whats more important to this discussion is that we understand that there is a way of revealing how God truly feels in this passage Romans 9:11-22....As it is written Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated. His feelings are expressed by his actions, verse 22 goes on to tell us that this Esau is a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction. God's wrath is his expression to how he feels, this is why he pours it out.

I have had people do some things in my life that would make me want to do some damage, but I held my peace. The Lord said "vengeance is mine," He pours upon people his anger and his wrath, he fulfills the deep feeling that he has for wickedness by expressing his wrath upon them.

I mean no disrespect to anyone on this network when I say this.
I know that this is a hard subject but we got swallow the bitter as well as the sweet, if we are to grow. A baby do not like a bitter taste in his mouth, he expects everything the be sweet and sometimes you have to force him to eat, why? because it's good for him. God wants us to grow up, but we can't grow if we don't eat all that the Lord put before us to eat.
John 3:16 very clearly states “God so loved the world...” and many other verses about God's unconditional love.

Now there are verses like Psalms 5:5 which are rendered in the King James Bible “The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.” and even the NIV states: 5. “The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.” which seem to say that God hates some people so I think we need a bit of perspective as to who is hated and how this is so.

Now, God hates sin. I think all agree that God hated sin so much He sent His Son who knew no sin to become sin for us and in that as Jesus died on the Cross so did our sin.

Yet, there are those who dwell in injustice. They live their lives such that to bring hardship and injustice to others the do not know love. In a sense as harsh as this sounds, they have become less than human in their own devaluing of other humans. God hates iniquity, and that one would bring harm to others for their own pleasure shows that they are far from God and so God has turned them over to a depraved mind as Romans 1 teaches.

Now, can these be saved “Yes” undoubtedly. Yet, if one's heart is so hardened that they cannot respond to God, then they will receive that due justice and penalty for their death.

Saying this, one must understand also that some place “God hates sinners” in a wrong context. They place this on those they deem are not keeping the Law, or even the standard of righteousness that they have declared as making one “worthy” of God?s grace. This is a travesty against God and His Grace as God has chosen even the worst of sinners to change and become sons of God.

In the OT if one was against God, as the Promise to Abraham states, “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.”, so those who oppose God or those He loves are dealt with because of that promise. The flip side is that the Gentiles were also to be blessed by Abraham as God promise to bless all Nations through Abraham.

Now, the issue is that if one is so proud or arrogant that they oppose God, then God will oppose them, though idea is resisting the proud and giving grace to the humble.

Yet, the promise that the Gentile was blessed was fulfilled by Jesus. So in that fulfillment, God sees all men only through Jesus and that all men “in Christ Jesus” are seen as if they are Jesus themselves for Jesus has become our righteousness and we the very righteousness of God, in Christ.

Things are changed. For even the Apostle Paul, while still Saul, violently opposed the Christians and proudly even stood by during the murder of Stephen and He asked for permission to go to other cities to destroy this “cult” called Christianity.

God does hate sin, yet the issue is not whether mankind is held to Old Testament standards but whether man is held to New Testament standards. Does God resist the proud? Yes. Yet the issue is that as they resist Him, God turns them over to their own way. God has always given grace to the humble yet the mark of true humility is the acceptance of Jesus and the rejection of our own way.

So, God now loves the sinner but hates the sin, He hated sin so much he sent His Son who knew no sin, to become sin and as Jesus died on the Cross, Sin was judged and also died on the Cross.

Jesus now holds the Keys to death and Hades

Romans 8:1 -14 speaks clearly of how sin and death are dealt with in the Believer and that the unbeliever still lives under the Law of sin and death and so will still experience death even though sin is dealt with.

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”

Now even though sin was dealt with if one still lives as if it was not, then they will die though their sins forgiven for as 2 Corinthians states in chapter 5: 10-21

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

The man that walks outside of reconciliation, and by the old nature of sin and death, will have to be judged according to the deeds done while in the body yet so will those in Christ. Again the difference will be only in what they have done with Jesus. Accept Him and receive eternal life or having rejected Him will be tossed in the Lake of fire to be destroyed.

The Words of John should be a warning John 3:35-36

“The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.”

For God once judge men, but now men are judged by the words of Jesus

John 12:47-50
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

Now those who do evil do not know love, and the way to know Love is to be Loved and God is Love. Love does not cause harm to others and will seek to do what is best for others. It is this love as 2 Cor 5:14-16 tells us “For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”

We no longer view one man evil and another righteous, rather that all men are sinners in need of reconciliation to God through Jesus. We now are compelled as true believers to Love others and motivate us to tell others they are reconciled at the Cross and are not able to receive eternal Life in Jesus.

Does God still hate sinners, not since Jesus died for them yet some will still place themselves under the OT covenant with death, and receive that covenants rewards without Jesus. God's wrath will be poured out on all that is not “in Christ” and this world will be purged of all that is not of Christ Jesus all that is not of Grace and Truth will perish and all that is of Grace and Truth will have eternal Life in Christ Jesus. Those who choose to not be in Christ will perish as they reject the One Way of Life or their own and in that be judged with all things not in Christ Jesus.

It is a hard word, but still it is not God Who now judges, but what one does with the Word of God and whether they accepted the Life of Christ or not.

A dead man needs Life even a forgiven dead man still needs life and the Life is in the Son.

The one who teaches that God still "hates the sinner" is teaching a mixture of Law and Grace and distorting the message of the New Testament...
This is great, but doesn't God's wrath tell us how he feels about those that he pours it on?
No!!!!! Why would GOD hate we who arre made in HIS image? In an earlier posting you quoted Malachi 1:2-3 as a proof that GOD hates His creation.

Malachi 1:2-3 declares, “’I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, 'How have you loved us?' ‘Was not Esau Jacob's brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.’” Malachi 1:2-3 is quoted and alluded to in Romans 9:10-13, “Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’” Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau? If God is love (1 John 4:8), how could He hate anyone?

When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the Prophet Malachi and the Apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed Israel) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called Edom), and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau’s and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants. God choose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God choose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.” Romans chapter 9 makes it abundantly clear that loving Jacob and hating Esau was entirely related to which of them God chose. Hundreds of years after Jacob and Esau had died, the Israelites and Edomites became bitter enemies. The Edomites often aided Israel’s enemies in attacks on Israel. Esau’s descendants brought God’s curse upon themselves. Genesis 27:29 tells us, “May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.”

Thank GOD for the New Covenant!!!!!


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