Is "SPEAKING IN TONGUES" the first evidence of being filled with The Holy Ghost? - Black Preaching Network2024-03-29T15:57:05Zhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topics/is-speaking-in-tongues-the-first-evidence-of-being-filled-with?commentId=916966%3AComment%3A4272882&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe Bible does not teach a "s…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2014-12-10:916966:Comment:58455462014-12-10T03:06:52.412ZRev. Darryl Millerhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RevDarrylMiller
<p>The Bible does not teach a "second" work of grace: that of speaking in tongues as evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Many of the proof-text utilize by many Charismatics and Pentecostals are arbitrary misinterpreted and misapplied. The whole of the system is based upon a works movement; not a grace movement. The apostle Paul warns of would-be law teachers who would pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ so as to put God's people under the yoke of the law (Acts 1:8-9; Gal. 3:1, 2-4).…</p>
<p>The Bible does not teach a "second" work of grace: that of speaking in tongues as evidence of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. Many of the proof-text utilize by many Charismatics and Pentecostals are arbitrary misinterpreted and misapplied. The whole of the system is based upon a works movement; not a grace movement. The apostle Paul warns of would-be law teachers who would pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ so as to put God's people under the yoke of the law (Acts 1:8-9; Gal. 3:1, 2-4). The words "filled," and "baptism" are two distinguishing works of grace. There is "one" baptism of the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:12-13; Eph. 4:6), but many "infilling." The "baptism of the Spirit is a permanent experience, but the "infilling" of the Spirit is a continual act of being filled (Eph. 5:18).</p>
<p>The problematic issue with those who are in support of the "second" work of grace is their seemingly to duplicate the experience of the believers at Pentecost without taking into the account of its historical context. There is nothing phenomenal nor extraordinary about what happen at the day of Pentecost, but they spoke in a language that many were able to understand. Those who support the idea of speaking in tongues utilize Acts 2:4 with Acts 19:1 but fail to take into account proceeding verses after Acts 2:4. The prophecy that was spoken by Joel (2:24) is an unfulfilled prophecy by which the church in this present age will not experience but the Jewish crowd. Many of the Jews during this time will have the opportunity to call upon the name of the Lord to receive salvation. The Jews seek a sign, but the Gentiles knowledge. The experience of speaking in tongues does not indicate true faith, but the sure sign of real faith is personal faith in Jesus Christ (Jn. 3:36; Rom. 10:9-10).</p>
<p>In His Service,</p>
<p>Rev. Darryl Miller</p>
<p>Lead pastor, Contending for the Faith Church/Atlanta, GA.</p> No.tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2013-12-24:916966:Comment:57857292013-12-24T17:49:10.286ZTimothy Nelsonhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/timothynelson489
<p>No.</p>
<p>No.</p> Good Answer Pastor, I agree.…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-09-08:916966:Comment:44016052012-09-08T19:04:23.818ZRev. Todd H. McCauleyhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ToddHMcCauley
<p>Good Answer Pastor, I agree.</p>
<p>Rev. Todd</p>
<p>Good Answer Pastor, I agree.</p>
<p>Rev. Todd</p> Thank you for your response!…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-09-05:916966:Comment:43965982012-09-05T17:06:53.755ZPastor Rodrick Sweet,ThMhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RodrickSweet
<p>Thank you for your response!</p>
<p>Sorry that I just notice this, as I back to work form my vacation. Let me state it to you this way. The three passages in the Book of Acts serve as onetime events. There are no other places in the NT that one can use to try to make this point. So let us keep them in their right/proper context.</p>
<p>The Book of Acts is a book of Transition…It is a History Book and the event are not to be repeated. So the answer is still no!</p>
<p>Thank you for your response!</p>
<p>Sorry that I just notice this, as I back to work form my vacation. Let me state it to you this way. The three passages in the Book of Acts serve as onetime events. There are no other places in the NT that one can use to try to make this point. So let us keep them in their right/proper context.</p>
<p>The Book of Acts is a book of Transition…It is a History Book and the event are not to be repeated. So the answer is still no!</p> Very good response.tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-08-01:916966:Comment:43177782012-08-01T15:43:29.874ZJohn Denny Elderhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/AlmastroDenny
<p>Very good response.</p>
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<p>(Responding to Todd H. McCauley's comment: Pastor James, I'm some what disappointed...)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is the problem with True Biblical discussions...It's not about you or me, it's about The Word!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Enoch's free-will was to "Please" God by Obeying Him...Obeying God is better than Sacrifice to Him!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was not Enoch's free-will to be rewarded or translated by God, That was God's Grace...I'm sure you know this fact...but in order to frame up (defend)…</p>
<p>(Responding to Todd H. McCauley's comment: Pastor James, I'm some what disappointed...)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This is the problem with True Biblical discussions...It's not about you or me, it's about The Word!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Enoch's free-will was to "Please" God by Obeying Him...Obeying God is better than Sacrifice to Him!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was not Enoch's free-will to be rewarded or translated by God, That was God's Grace...I'm sure you know this fact...but in order to frame up (defend) your postion that Man has no free-will...and that God Forces some to go to Heaven and Forces other to go to Hell...something simple is made difficult. Saying Man had no free-will is beyond what the Bible states!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I find it odd that some one can defend a postion that some people are Born to go to Hell, and there is nothing they can do about it!!! That would make Preaching The Gospel in vain!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Until He comes....Yes, until He comes...but</p>
<p>He's here right now, and Where two or three are gathered together in His Name...There He is in The Midst..."Praying for more Revelation for The Body!!!" - Matthew 18:20</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We know the condition of Man...but that does not justify being Hell-bent. I'm a Heaven bent believer!!! I will continue to Preach what John The Baptist and Jesus The Christ, Son of The Living God Preached..."REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND...REPENT AND BE CONVERTED!!!"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You turn from you Sins, and He will Empower you to Walk in His Path!!!</p>
<p>(How can there be an disagreement with The Message of John The Baptist and Jesus The Christ???)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>God Bless you Brother, stay encouraged!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> Pastor James, i'm somewhat di…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-07-18:916966:Comment:42939172012-07-18T17:06:14.519ZRev. Todd H. McCauleyhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ToddHMcCauley
<p>Pastor James, i'm somewhat disappointed in your response. It seems that you're merely interested in defending your theology of man's free-will choice vs really looking at scripture from an exegetical viewpoint. Much of what was said was not dealt with. You stated that I was....<span> "Reaching" when you hint that Man's position is that of a neutral Bystander. He is not...he is...."</span></p>
<p><span>I never stated that man was "neutral". In fact my point was that man is NOT neutral…</span></p>
<p>Pastor James, i'm somewhat disappointed in your response. It seems that you're merely interested in defending your theology of man's free-will choice vs really looking at scripture from an exegetical viewpoint. Much of what was said was not dealt with. You stated that I was....<span> "Reaching" when you hint that Man's position is that of a neutral Bystander. He is not...he is...."</span></p>
<p><span>I never stated that man was "neutral". In fact my point was that man is NOT neutral (Read my post), therefore "CHOICE" is not an issue. The word Choose means to, "select from a number of possibilities". As I pointed out according to Matthew 7:13-14 mankind is not given this kind of choice. To be honest this unbiblical doctrine of Human choice as it relates to salvation is riddled with problems (1). It takes the focus off of God's grace and places it on the pride of man. For me, a sinful, dead sinner to say that "I chose God" is the height of arrogance and pride. (2). Human Choice undermines the doctrine of man's total depravity. If man can choose God or hell for that matter then man is NOT dead (Eph 2) he is merely "sick" or spiritually injured. (3). This doctrine makes light of the sovereignty of God. The doctrine of human choice related to salvation makes God passive. Can you imagine the Holy God waiting for man to make his choice, "oh, please people, pick me". (4). This teaching undermines the doctrine of salvific security. If I can choose to be saved, I can choose to be unsaved, right?</span></p>
<p><span>(5). Because the doctrine of human choice related to salvation is not biblical,l it forces bible teachers who teach this doctrine to betray the principles of sound biblical interpretation. In other words these teachers end up "eisegeting" scripture versus "exegeting" the text. A good example of this kind of eisegesis is the scriptural texts that you used to defend your position (e.g., Gen 5:24; Heb 11:5; Matt 5:29). These versus have nothing to do with our discussion. Do you believe that it was Enoch's "free-will" choice to be translated? Do you believe that if a person plucks out an eye, he/she will be qualified for heaven?</span></p>
<p><span>Until He comes</span></p>
<p><span>Bro. Todd</span></p>
<p><span> </span></p>
<p><span> </span></p> Salvation is something that M…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-07-18:916966:Comment:42939952012-07-18T13:55:54.804ZPastor James Grahamhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/PastorJamesGraham
<p>Salvation is something that Mankind will choose to Recieve or Reject.</p>
<p>(-Refer to The Ministries of John The Baptist and Then Jesus Christ according to The 4 Gospels.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Man does stand between two options, but you are "Reaching" when you hint that Man's position is that of a neutral Bystander. He is not...he is stained by Sin.</p>
<p>(-Refer to the Ministries of Joshua, Elijah and The Book of James, refering to a double minded man.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is Heaven or…</p>
<p>Salvation is something that Mankind will choose to Recieve or Reject.</p>
<p>(-Refer to The Ministries of John The Baptist and Then Jesus Christ according to The 4 Gospels.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Man does stand between two options, but you are "Reaching" when you hint that Man's position is that of a neutral Bystander. He is not...he is stained by Sin.</p>
<p>(-Refer to the Ministries of Joshua, Elijah and The Book of James, refering to a double minded man.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is Heaven or Hell.</p>
<p>(-Refer to examples in The Bible, that show The Deciever, Satan and all of Mankind that follow him.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Even though Mankind is born on the road to Hell as you correctly state, he was not created to go on the road to Hell. Mankind was created to be born on the road to Heaven! And so God will and has repaired that road to Himself, and Calls out (draws) all men who "Desire" to return back to the road we were created for.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Remeber Enoch, I got to write this one out!!!</p>
<p>Genesis 5:24- Enoch walked with God: and he was not: for God took him.</p>
<p>Hebrews 11:5- Enoch was translated that he should not see death: and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.</p>
<p>Yes it's true...before Abraham, The Law, The Prophets, The Cross and Pentecost...Mankind choose to "Please" God and God made a way to Save Man!!! Was Enoch forced to please God??? Enoch was also born on this road to Hell...yet Enoch desired Heaven, God made a way, and Enoch Choose that way!!! for simple, and biblical!!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hell bent Christians are dangerous! I would encourage Christians to be Heaven bent! I'm a Heaven bent Believer and proud of it!!!! I choose to be a Heaven bent Believer!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Lastly, You ask "Exactly where does the bible teach these things" I can show you hundreds examples, but let us focus on one.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Matthew 5:29- Jesus says "And if you right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No matter if "plucking out the eye" is symbolic or an real act...Jesus is telling his disciples that there is something they can do to advoid Hell!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>SOMETHING YOU CAN DO TO ADVOID HELL...THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF CHOICE...FREE-WILL...MAN CREATED FOR HEAVEN AND NOT HELL!!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Bringing up the subject of "The Elect" will only water-down the discussion of "FREE-WILL". After this subject is aired out according to Scripture, I'd be more than glad to discuss "The Elect" or "The doctrine of Election".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Salvation is something that Mankind can choose to Recieve or Reject.</p>
<p>No matter how you frame it up...Man is not a robot, with some programs created to go to Hell and some programs created to go to Heaven.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>God Bless you Brother Todd</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> Pastor James a couple of thou…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-07-17:916966:Comment:42918802012-07-17T16:22:22.385ZRev. Todd H. McCauleyhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ToddHMcCauley
<p>Pastor James a couple of thoughts in response. You asked....<span>Did you choose to believe God, or did He make you believe Him?</span>....."</p>
<p>First off we need to be clear, salvation is NOT a choice. Man does not stand between two great options as some neutral bystander. "Hmmm, do I choose God or do I choose the devil". "Do I choose Heaven, or Hell". We've bought into some mythology that teaches Heaven or Hell is a choice. The reality is this, Mankind is born on the road to Hell.…</p>
<p>Pastor James a couple of thoughts in response. You asked....<span>Did you choose to believe God, or did He make you believe Him?</span>....."</p>
<p>First off we need to be clear, salvation is NOT a choice. Man does not stand between two great options as some neutral bystander. "Hmmm, do I choose God or do I choose the devil". "Do I choose Heaven, or Hell". We've bought into some mythology that teaches Heaven or Hell is a choice. The reality is this, Mankind is born on the road to Hell. NO ONE ever makes a choice to go to Hell. Jesus makes this clear in the parable of the "Two gates" (Matt 7:13-14). All humanity because of imputed sin is headed for divine judgement (Rom 6:23). The gracious, undeserved gift of God is Salvation from this deserved fate, which He dispenses on whomever He pleases (Rom 9). I did NOT choose God, He chose me (John 15:16). In fact Ephesians 1 teaches that He chose us, When? In ETERNITY past (Before the foundation of the world). In real time He grants me the gift of Repentance which impacedt my will so that I continually believe. The Idea of Choosing Christ for salvation is NOT biblical. You can choose many things but salvation is NOT one of them. No James, we're NOT robots whereby He programs us, rather we are totally depraved humans who have been impacted in all phases of our personality by sin, so much so, that If God doesn't act on our behalf none of us could or would be saved. </p>
<p>Pastor James this "we can choose God" theology is dangerous because the logical fallout is this: If we can choose God and gain salvation, therefore we can unchoose God and lose Salvation. NEITHER of these views is Biblical. Nor is neither of these views Helpful.</p>
<p>Pastor James you also stated, "....The Bible is clear, You choose to Repent, God has made that Pathway possible!</p>
<p>The Bible is clear, You choose to Recieve Jesus, God has made that Pathway possible!</p>
<p>Exactly rhere does the Bible teach these things? We have bought into a theology that Is not biblical. Pragmatic! just NOT biblical.</p>
<p>As the people of God Our job is to not worry about who or who is not elect. Our job is to preach the Gospel to every creature and God promised to draw all those he has called to Himself.</p>
<p>Salvation is Not a partnership</p>
<p>Salvation is Not a democracy</p>
<p>Salvation is a sovereign dictatorship</p>
<p></p>
<p>Bro. Todd</p>