To have eternal salvation/ eternal life , Jesus the Christ is the ONLY Way. A person cannot enter Heaven/ New Jeruselm without Jeus the Christ . You must accept Chrsit Jesus as your Lord and saviour. There is a heaven and a hell , and yes everyone will live forever. A person cannot make it to Glory on the prayers promises , and covenants of our fore fathers and mothers. You must have a relationship with Chrsit Jesus for yourself. Time is nigh yesterday is gone , and tomorrow is not promised . all you have is today , this moment in time. In eternaity you will be with Chrsit jesus and paradise, or Burn in the lake of fire and brimestone. I pose the question, if you died right now oh where, oh where will your soul find rest.Jesus the Christ is the ONLY Way. A denominational name, church, synagoge, temple ,hall, etc. can't save you { salvation] You must have Christ Jesus and your name recorded in the Lambs Book of Life. if you went around the great wall of china. you will find buddah and confusehes dead cold and in the grave.. If you went to taj mahal you will hindu ,janism,dead cold and still in the grave. if you went around central park in New york city. You will find sweet daddy grace and father divine dead,cold, and in the grave. if you went to saudia arabia around the Black rock you will find mohamend dead cold and in the grave. YET if you went to jerusalen around a hill called calvary. YOU will find an Empty Tomb, because Chrsit jesus rose from the grave with all power in his hands. Chrsit Jesus sits at the right hand of the father making intercess for whom so ever will. Jesus the Christ is The ONLY WAY

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She is trying? Trying to do what? Before I said anything to her she was attacking me. Let me repeat that. She was attacking me. How am I attacking her by talking about her attacking me? You can't play hero to someone who isn't a victim.
Jesus the Christ is the Only way to have true eternal salvation
She has a zeal, which is ironic considering who I am posting to, for the Lord of Hosts. She wants to know Jesus. That is what I am saying by "she's trying" You have to give room to grow, but be firm on the truth. You arrogantly showed her that you have more knowledge than her, and she is irrational. If you posted the scripture to show her where she was wrong, but your won heart told her.

All of my postings are to help with the learning, teaching, and doing of the Word of God. What is your purpose?
bru zeal,
proper divion of the matter /big up!!!
so ZealotX is an esoteric character Deep ,not many here eat the meat ,but in need of the milk.....
Romans 10:9 If thou wilt confess with thy mouth and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead thou shall be saved......Jesus the Chrsit is the only Way
Pastor Valentine.

There is no dispute before you that Yeshua haMashiach is the only way. You are preaching to a choir full of messianics. My point earlier was about following YHWH and WHY we do it. Is it about the fear of death? Or (and I'm shamelessly giving you an answer here) is it about loving our Father and Creator? You spent most of your time talking about the afterlife and one can see where you want to be and what you want to avoid by how you talk about your religion. I am a person who that cannot work on because my "religion" (as James defined it) isn't based on fear. Whether YHWH blesses me or curses me, whether he gives me life or condemns me based on past sins, I WILL STILL SERVE HIM because I love him. And for me that is the ONLY reason. When self-preservation is you main motivation you will RESEMBLE a follower of G-d, you will RESEMBLE a believer, but inside you will be a tomb. You will be like the pharisees, doing everything you think will win you that prize at the end of religion's rainbow. But I love my Father and I'm very sensitive and passionate for those who do and against those who are hypocrites in that they say they do but really don't.

If you do not want your faith to be shallow and hollow, if you don not want to be a whited tomb praying with grand words and eloquent speech just to be seen of men, if you don't want to be just a bee working for honey, then you need to open your heart to YHWH. No one should teach death as a reason to seek life. No one should teach others how to be spiritual golddiggers, digging after G-d's wealth just because you know he has it. Too much of Christianity has turned to materialism and greed. Where is the love? That is why I asked you, even challenged you, with those questions that you did not answer. If you don't have the relationship that I do and feel about the Father the way that I do, if you need a carrot to lead you to righteousness, then sir I pity you. I'm sure that you esteem yourself as not needing such pity but I pity you all the same.


Hi Zealot x and greetings. May I comment on your thought here that "Jesus is the only way to the Father" The bible teaches as you know that Jesus said "he who has seen me has seen the Father." According to Isaiah, He Jesus was the everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6) Thats why he "as" the Son is the way. This means that to understand God you have to see Jesus, who he is! that then is how we come to the unseen invisible God, through the visible Jesus.

The incarnation "God" becoming flesh answers all our questions. Its meant too. (1 Timothy 3:16)



Jesus is God!
(Isaiah 45:21 Psalm 91:16 Psalm 27:1).

@ Chaplain Pat Harris,

Your apology is accepted. I am not bothered by people taking jabs at me because of my pic. That is the purpose for using it in the first place. As I said before, it exposes spiritual immaturity. I do not think you are a bad person. You, like Hezekiah, simply have more to learn. However, you have the potential to go further than Hezekiah and many other ministers on this site because you have much less of an ego. You apologized. I have yet to receive such an apology from Hezekiah after his unwarranted and immature attacks. Which, really, I could care less. Myself and others have been trying to help him but instead of engaging in honest debate he resorts to character assassination. He's far more of a ninja than Zealot X is even though a ninja/samurai is what I designed the character to be. Speaking of the character, I believe that many people will be helped and will grow spiritually after reading his story. Anyway, you gave an apology and that is an act that I respect. It shows character and class. In the future, please keep in mind, that if someone doesn't know you they don't know whether or not you're just trying to be funny. So try to get to know the person first so that you will not serve as a stumbling block to someone who is far more sensitive than myself. This is friendly advice. I give it in peace.

You won't receive an apology from me. You teach wrong, and you cause a stumbling block. Some things you do teach are sound. But for the most part your doctrine is not sound because you believe the Father dealt with Israel in the wilderness, and it is clear that we dealt with Jesus in the Wilderness. If you have the wrong godhead dealing with us in the wilderness, your doctrine can not come out sound. Jesus said that he comes in a volume of a book, it is written of him. Why would all the prophets point to Jesus, and it was the Father we were dealing with in the Wilderness. I don't want you to get people thinking that is truth because it is not. You have a lot of knowledge with no understanding, and that is a bad combination. You can think of me what you will. You can say what you will about me. It is not personal, I don't come against the person Zealot, but I come against the doctrine you stand for. I am not claiming to have it all, but I know enough to see error. I do the commandments everyday. Do them. I don't lean to my own understanding. I lean to the Bible. Period. All of my understanding comes from the Bible. If Jesus is the Father's word, Jesus is the one doing the things of the Father, by the angels, which are servant beings. So he would be the one who was speaking to Israel when he brought the commandments to Moses.

You are completely close-minded. And in this game that means you are blind. You BELIEVE that we have never dealt with the Father. I have asked you to PROVE it and you have run away amidst personal attacks against me. If you say someone has a delusion as you did in this thread, that is by definition a PERSONAL attack. You did NOT attack what I said AT ALL. You simply attacked ME. When you are ready to have this debate I am here and also on Until then you are simply attacking what I say "Ad hominem". Do you know what "argumentum ad hominem" means? Of course not. It basically means that you attack the argument by attacking (saying things about) the person making the argument instead of actually dealing with the argument itself. This is not a very honest or scholarly approach.

I have also made this point numerous times which you have never addressed. Why? It challenges your belief but you don't know how to disprove it. And that's okay! I'm not hear to put on you more than you can bear. I told you to take your time and study before getting into a debate with me. Once again, here is the proof that what you are saying is false and erroneous. You claim that Yisra'el did not deal with the Father in the wilderness. This (in your theory) would make YHWH "Jesus". Not surprising. You think everyone is "Jesus", including Melchizedek and Elijah. It is impossible for them just like it is impossible for "Jesus" to be YHWH. And I proved it very simply by quoting from John 8. Since you claim I don't bring scriptures (which is grossly untrue) then you must have ignored what I posted to you before and the scores of texts that I used to accompany it. But the reality is that I DO NOT NEED MANY TEXTS TO DEAL WITH A SIMPLE ISSUE.

This is what the pharisees said in John 8:
John 8:41 - Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even G-d.

They were not making reference to some foreign god they didn't know. You believe John and Jesus introduced this other "father" to them but they did not accept the credibility of EITHER ONE. Their belief was already established. They believed their Father was also their G-d. Yeshua believed this too but since I am not dealing with that right now I will not go outside of John 8. The pharisees claim had NOTHING TO DO WITH JOHN 1 as JOHN 1 did not exist at this time. It had nothing to do with the teachings of haMashiach because they didn't believe or accept him. You are reading the NT as if everyone had it and everyone could follow your puzzle of misunderstood texts. And the fact that you need a multitude of texts to forum this puzzle speaks volumes about the credibility of your belief. And the reality is that it is easy to poke out pieces of your puzzle. I showed you I could do this already and you basically cried about how I was expecting you to have English comprehension. I was shocked and awed by that. But when ACTUAL bible students read they have to consider the context of the words they are reading. Every bit of the context of John 8 which is supported by the Scriptures, tells us that the Israelites believed YHWH WHO SAID HE WAS THEIR G-D, was also THE FATHER BECAUSE HE SAID HE WAS THEIR FATHER.

Jeremiah 31:9 - They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Yisra'el had a Father. It was YHWH. Do you agree?

For you to say that "Jesus" is YHWH then "Jesus" must also be THE FATHER of Yisra'el. Do you agree?

So when they said "we have one Father, even G-d" he correct response should have been "Yes, that's me."

What did he say?

54 Yeshua answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your G-d: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

Not only did Yeshua clearly state that the person who they were claiming was their father and their G-d is HIS FATHER (not him) but he also said that they were liars because they claimed to know him. But HOW ON EARTH WOULD THEY EVEN BE ABLE TO CLAIM TO KNOW HIM IF THEY'VE NEVER DEALT WITH HIM AND NEVER EVEN HEARD OF "THE FATHER" who is somehow different from YHWH who claimed to be the Father of Yisra'el? HOW?

For YESHUA to be "their Father" and to suggest there is another Father is a COMPLETE AND UTTER CONTRADICTION!

Matthew 5:16, Matthew 5:45, Matthew 5:48, Matthew 6:1, Matthew 6:9 - After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

and so on....

and let's not forget this one...

John 20:17 - Yeshua saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my G-d, and your G-d.

There could only be 2 fathers in your scenario and the problem is that Yeshua said there is only one. In fact, EVERYONE agrees with him, except for you.

Matthew 23:9 - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

How long willy lie and pretend that I have not dealt with your argument? You are clearly in error. What YOU teach is in error. It must come as shock to have been wrong about who it was that was there in the OT. And I feel sorry for you because of how much belief you put into this. But its not the truth and I cannot pretend with you that it is. If you want to hate me for it, then so be it. But do not be deluded into thinking this conversation did not happen..... AGAIN.

Hezekiah, in your reply to ZealotX, you made this statement:

You won't receive an apology from me. You teach wrong, and you cause a stumbling block. Some things you do teach are sound. But for the most part your doctrine is not sound because you believe the Father dealt with Israel in the wilderness, and it is clear that we dealt with Jesus in the Wilderness. If you have the wrong godhead dealing with us in the wilderness, your doctrine can not come out sound. Jesus said that he comes in a volume of a book, it is written of him. Why would all the prophets point to Jesus, and it was the Father we were dealing with in the Wilderness.

Do you understand the teaching of the Triune God, sometimes referred to as the Trinity? I would have to think that you do not, because if you did, you would have agreed with ZealotX that it was God the Father who chose Moses to lead his people (the nation of Israel) out of Egypt into the wilderness. It was God the Father who made His presence known in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. Attempting to explain the Trinity is no easy task, because He is not a person who can be easily explained in man's language. But allow me to share the lesson notes that I have on the Trinity. It's really going to take believing by faith in the Triune God.

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.

The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).

2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.

In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.

3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
Advice received and appreciated.

Now, pardon me while I engage in a little humor. :-)


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