The truth of the matter is no matter if it is in the public or just confined to the members of the church and among the faternity of the pastoral brotherhood===whatever----there is one issue that is always glossed over----the lives of the people or persons that these sinning leaders affect------there may be 1000 in the church---that feel that their leader are great teachers===leaders===providers===but there happens to be 4 or 5 or even 1 that this leader has a sinful relation wit==h what do you do===well=== most will weigh the good of the 1000---therefore neglecting =the one who fell prey==do you discredit the person who has been affected----say they were old enough to know better== so its really their fault===we all have heard the many stories of leaders in the church having children out of wedlock===and the woman is made to leave in shame===sin among leaders---sex--drugs---lying stealing=====the offending pastors are exposed---forgiven and if expelled--but replanted in other churches=even called to do work-shops== be motivational speakers=writers of booksetc.====. but what happens to those who speak out====live out the abuse====there now is the growth of maybe a generation of those who mistrust the church===equating bad leaders ---with false Word---which results in mistrust of the Word --WHICH RESULTS IN SOULS NOT REACHED==AND STUMBLING OF THE ONE AFFECTED. remember there are weaknesses====there are issues of this adamic flesh====but there also is out and out iniquites committed because of title=position====favor --------until the BLACK WALL OF SILENCE COME DOWN --and the leadership hold their contemparies accountabile ==there will be no change======john 12:42===people are afraid of speaking out because they are afraid of being put out===shut out of the benefits of being different organizations====pastors know who is doing what==="SCATTERING SHEEP IS THE LEAST OF THE OFFENSE===DESTROYING ===SOMEONES FAITH====THE LORD WILL HANDLE THESE===BUT OUR LORD EXPECTS US TO WORK HERE ---IN JOHN17:15-HE DID NOT PRAY THAT WE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WORLD===WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO SPEAK OUT---STOP THE SILENCE===THE GLOSSING OVER===IF :BE HOLY" NONLONGER FUNCTIONS IN THIS CENTURY LET IT BE KNOW====IF "BE HOLY IS NO LONGER A REQUIREMENT OF LEADERSHIP MAKE IT CLEAR
it is true that the bible says that we are to die daily==but closeet vs open===out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. broadcast or kept secret. We have to forget about what we show man vs what we can appropriately hide---if you are a leader living a double life that other life will leak into --affect----change===dictate---what you preach==tolerate===condemn===Leaders are called to a higher standard than lay people===we were not the ones wearing bells attached to our hems===if you are called ---then you know the cost-----we die daily yes---there is a difference between weaknesses and practicing sin----Paul had a weakness that distressesed him--he prayed for it to be removed==while we know not what it was===nor should we===the Lord did and declared "My grace is sufficient for thee:for my strength is made perfect in WEAKNESS==WEAKNESS. The Lord did not say my Grace is sufficient for your sin===yes we all have weaknesses=====but there is a difference between weaknesses and sin====if your sin --even though it is closeted is harmful to the body of Christ then your calling is anti-thetical to your calling----Pastoring is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it is to be used to edify==exhort==build up the body of Christ=======i say again weakness is weakness ---sin is against God===God makes no mistakes=====todays priests do not have to go through the physicial purification process that were required==when the priests entered the tabernacle---but there still must be a=spiritual preparation --a spiritual placing of bells around the hems of their garments== God said be Holy for i the Lord your God is Holy==the fear that the tabernacle priests felt when entering the inner court must be renewed. closeted vs open sin----while there are weaknessess we will still face in this adamic flesh---and we do die daily----and repentance is open to those who will partake----sin ===operated-- closeted ==or open====is sin---and it will affect your life===your decisions====your reaction to different situations---etc.====being called is a divine office---it is hard---it is costly----but most there are the victems===fallen leaders get up and write books and give trestimonies====and are welcomed back into the fold after they repent===but what about the victems that are strewn along the highways and byways of the leaders sinful journey==those that were overtaken when this person was in his/her sinful state====weaknesses are what they are=== but it is said each of us will have to give a personal account to GOD so don't condemn each other anymore. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not put an obstacle in another Christian's path=========there has to be accountabilty among the leadership===being charismatic and having a large following doesn't exclude you from being accountable===anyone in a position of authority that uses that position to misuse==abuse--take advantage of one who is weaker is going against what God has called them to do ===no matter what title is held=====weak areas are weak areas---i just hope there is not a confusion between weak areas and outright sin===leadership is a divine calling===accountibility is needed---requried===and should be upheld-----many pastors know ---have heard or even ministered to those that by rights should have been sat down===pulled to the side====rebuke===counseled=accountibility--===Thank God for God-------Yes he will show you up and out===Prayer helps-----but intervention is neccessary also====
That was a good thought, but let's clear up somethings first. Although, there maybe a difference between weakness and sin, there is a difference to what you are weak too. All weakness is not equal. There is weakness to sin and weakness through spiritual or physical attacks not related to sin such as sickness. Paul was not battling with a homosexual spirit; nor was he battling with any lust; he was not being tried for his struggle with sin. God would not allow that. He was dealing with a sickness (read the rest of the scripture you quoted in 2 Cor. 12:9 - "Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."). If you read James 1:13-15 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."If it had anything to do with sin, with Paul's sincerity, God would have delivered him. God would not allow Paul or anyone to continue to wallow in sin and say "My grace is sufficient for thee:for my strength is made perfect in WEAKNESS". That would not make sense. Weakness is not weakness. There are a lot of preachers that are going through a lot and has nothing to do with sin. For the others that there weakness is sin related need to step down and allow God to deliver them. I am not against my fellow brethren in Christ but I am against the acts being done by my fellow yoke-men. With that said, i am in agreement with the rest of what you shared. God bless
amen===i understood that pauls weakness was physical==not sin===but the writer was equating sin with weakness===i just wanted to clarify that God told Paul that his grace was sufficient===weakness is weakness---i did not want to name any sins because of cause there is no measuring sin======but if a leader is sinnining and a leader knows what sin unto God is===and what weakness is===there is a difference=lets not play with words=there has to be accountability===i want to know==if a pastor/leader is using his position to commit acts===of inequity---thats known sin===who is he accountable to-- here in the natural===what about the enablers ==those close to these leaders===that support them in their mess=====Paul was not talking about sin===we both know that======my point was if it is just weaknesses why throw them in a closet====men of God are men===also====if they would stop hiding some of their weaknesses--then maybe the gullible people that elevate them to near God-like status will be able to stop it now----------
I have three scriptures for you to study...
Proverbs 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Psalm 32:5 I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
To die daily has nothing to do with sinning everyday. Thats ridicules. Read the scriptures that you may have eternal life. We may live in this flesh but we dont have to walk in the flesh. The bible says (not me) in Galations 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. If this was an impossible feat, why did he ask us to do it. You quoted a scripture that was miss interpreted as though it justifies any action past or present. When it say all have sinned, it only deals with the past. We are new creatures according to 2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things are passed away; behold, new things have come."
If you are testifying for yourself, thats fine but dont think that we all have the same testimony, especially according to the Word of God. God bless my friend. Walk in the spirit.
How do you know they are in the adulterous relationship? Church gossip? Or have they come out and admitt it? If they have come out an admitt it to the people then there is a high likely hood that the have enough integrity to step down themselves. But usually if they are getting away with they will continue to preach while they are living there secret life style. But what is so true about God is the He will not be mocked, the preacher that is not standing true to the call God will put him on blast in front of the entire world so its no need for us trying to play God and say what we should do, because we aint the Almighty He will not allow His mercy to be trampled over.
Leaders should NOT be able to continue to preach in sin but because they no longer have leadership over them who will set the house in order things like this happen.
We have too many hirelings as leaders and not MEN of God who will stand up for right, righteousness and holiness.
JHB was found to be in an adulterous relationship AND had a child out of wedlock that he was NOT providing for and his church stays packed- even to this day.
So, that tells us these men do what they do because their foolish sheep won't see them any other way but right- no matter how wrong they are.
My sister if he admitted and repented still isn't excusable for what he has done. For he is a leader a Shepherd that was called by God for the purpose of building and edifingt the kingdom Of God. He's responsible for the House that God has placed him over and the bible clearly lets us know that how can the people hear unless they are taught. Remember this also we're as Christians are the only bible some people reads.
True, but although we are all human, does it make it impossible to live a holy and separated life? I think not. Jesus was our perfect example. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh yet did not sin. He was tempted as we are but still didn't sin. It is important for everyone to know and follow Christ especially the leaders. To whom much is given , much is required. If a leader sins, my position is this; I don't glory in the fact that they do sin but I am worried about their soul. Sometimes people in leadership positions worry more about their positions than their own souls. And just think if they do that their not really worried about anybody else. They need to sit down and get it right. and if the opportunity comes again so be it, but dont put yourself back. Look at Jamal Bryant as an example. Dynamic speaker but a horrible lifestyle. He may have repented but look at the damages. WOW. At what cost will you allow selfish acts of sin be covered because you fail to want to leave your position. Repentance is not feeling sorry you got caught. Its a total change of mind and action.
Should they be able to preach is a good question but a better questions should the body of Christ allow me to continue to preside? The answer is NO. I'm tired of people using the scriptures for their personal use. For we all ahve sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. True we all have but if you were in the presence of God like you should had been you wouldn't had time to be in adultry. Once you allow the leaders to get away with this the congregation believes that this is suitable christian behavior. Leader: to guide on a way, 2. live(quiet life) 3. to direct the operation,activity, or performace of, 4. to be the head of( the first) Thats the definitation of a Leader which is the Pastor/Preacher. I believe if the people allow a Preacher to continue to minister to them its because their doing the same thing, does it make it right no!!! And thats why they need to be SAT DOWN IMEDIATELY