But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.
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You have an interesting perspective.
There once was a time when I believed the same thing because it was what my father preached and taught. Sadly, thousands upon thousands believe that they can too loose their salvation and consequently they live miserable lives weighted with the fear of falling. A life changing message is in these two scriptures. Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Salvation is a gift to all who will believe it and receive it. Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
There is nothing that we can do to earn salvation; lest Jesus died in vain. In John 3 says that there was a Pharisee who came to Jesus inquiring how to become saved. Jesus told him and explained to him that he must be Born Again. Are we now suggesting that if a person mess up, fall short, backslide, make a mistake etc, that they should be Re-Born Again? That’s not biblical.
Very eloquently you've use the parable of the Prodigal Son. [Luke 15: 20-24]. Allow me to give you a new perspective. The greatest message in the story about the prodigal son has to do with the father's love; just like in the two parables prior to this one. When the son realized he had done wrong; he felt unworthy to be called his father's son. While the son was still a ways from home the father did several things to let the son know that he was still his son and worthy of the father's love. The father presented him back to the house the same as the day he left simply because he loved his son. [The father represents God and the son represents the church] In the old testament David describes A Shepherd and Sheep and in both cases [Father-Son or Shepherd-Sheep ] it refers to relationship.
20 And he arose, and came to his father.
yet a great way off his father saw him, [He wasn’t back in the house yet]
and had compassion, [Saw the son as his son who was hungry, thirsty, etc]
and ran, [The father got in a hurry]
and fell on his neck, [Leaned down with no conditions or stipulations]
and kissed him. [Showed his affection for]
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: ‘The Fatted Calf’. This means that the provisions for the celebration were already confirmed.
Just like the prodigal son, The Church struggles with the word disobedience. If we are honest, we can admit that we fall short in all that we do. People need to hear the truth that Jesus spent his earthly life teaching against the tricks and traps of the Pharisees. God expects the best from us because it will affect our witness in the earth and our reward in heaven. Jesus has already paid the price for the penalty of sin. Through Christ we are no more servants but sons if we believe it and receive it. Galatians 4:7 - Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Thanks and God Bless
Preacher God cannot fail but man can, it is proven man can fail. In your own words you demonstrate the theif on the cross called onto Jesus before He died, if nothing convince you let that convince you. You unwitting wrote the jist of the question without really realising it and if you reall understood what you wrote maybe you would understand. Preacher the theif got an opportunity to call on Jesus before he died and lucky for him he died without turning back, preacher he died in Christ so too did the prodigal son He returned to the Father.
However if you understood the original discussion was about those that never came back and preacher dont say once one is in Christ they cannot turn away otherwise you are proclaiming God to be a liar. The Bible is our instruction guide, our example and all things in it are given for a purpose, the story of the prodigal son for instance shows that we can turn away from the Father but thankfully God is a mericful and loving Father who will welcome you with open hands when you come toyour sense and return.
However preacher if you dont come to your sense and return you are doomed because there is no longer repentence inthe grave. Jesus already been there and preach the message. Repentence must happen while you still can, while you have live it is too late when you are dead. The only man making holiness to be unsavory is those that keep telling people they can live in sin and still go to heaven preacher stop it there blood will be on your hands.
Sin is unsavory, Holiness is not . God's eyes is too pure to behold sin which is why BE THOU HOLY AS I AM HOLY not as I have sinned, preacher get a grip.
GOD's promises are for ever it is unchanging because He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow but we are not, we can walk away but he will still be there if you choose to return.
Preacher you seem to still be missing the mark of course God is a meriful and forgiving god if He was not none of us would be forgiven our sins. Do you not understand that we are talking about people who dontwant forgiveness people who have left anddo not want to return to Christ. Those that say Yes I knew Christ but I prefer the devils side because it is more fun and no I dont want to return for forgiveness I want to die in the devils camp. Those are the people I am talking about. Preacher anyone who ask for forgiveness even on their dead bed is save but you are arguing that those who make a choice to lead a sinful life apart from Christ still have salvation even though they say good ridance. I dont want it. Preacher Jesus said you cant serve two Masters because you will love one and hate the other are you saying people can live two lives and still remain save
Hello Miss Angela,
How are you?
I'm not implying, indicating or advocating anyone to live in sin. My remarks are geared to the original topic of discussion, which is: Salvation is it eternal regardless of the circumstances or not. Based on my studies, Salvation is based on one's belief in Jesus Christ. To all of those who are trying to make it in based on their good works; you have my condolences.
Painfully we quote scriptures but do not know the full impact of it. Salvation is not an issue of luck. God who desires all men to be saved, ensures that everyone has opportunity to reject or accept his offer. If a believer never can back to God's plan, scripture never say that the person has gone to hell, that means he lost his salvation. Yea, a believer may have his body destroyed, or even be handed over to Satan for the destruction of his body. But look at how loving our God is, his soul would still be saved.
You see, Holiness is our status at the moment of salvation. God sees us as Holy people in Christ.Holiness is also a daily practice, the later does not cancel the former. The former is a permanent status, the basis under which the later functions. The later is our practice, and it is the desire of God that we walk accordingly, because he knew that we shall be blessed if we obey. Or He may discipline us as sons, ( with certain stages of suffering or even death) but not as bastards. Picture in your mind that you are in the swimming pool that you can't get out from. It is what happened at the point of our salvation, God the Holy Spirit baptize us into the body of Christ, We may choose to enjoy being in the pool or not, but we are still inside.
You know what, i think it is difficult to discuss or argue with some people. Especially, when there is a big gap on doctrinal orientation between them. We are not all given the grace gift of being a pastor teacher. There must be learner and teacher relationship if we must progress in our spiritual journey. I think some have better understanding than others. And we need to acknowledge that if we must impact our lives. I pray that God open our eyes to humility. Thanks for your efforts, anyway.
1 COR. 5:5;
Now, the day of the Lord is that day of evaluating believers work on earth. 2 Cor. 5:10, calls it at the judgment seat of Christ. This judgment in Greek is called bema seat. A royal family affair, where believers would be evaluated.
This judgment is also different from the judgment at the white throne, which is for unbelievers, according to, Rev. 20:11-15
I am glad you wrote the following verse because you have answered the question without really understanding. That is why it pays to pay attention before commenting .1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Yes the say says it all IF YOU CONFESS YOUR SINS Min Marshall we are talking aboput those that do not confess their sins,. The ones that died without confessing their sins because they just did not want to they turn away not to return again. I believe we all know that God is a forgiving God that is why I use the prodigal son illustration showing that when He when back the Father forgave him.The discussion is looking at suppose he died before he came to his senses
I fully agree with you,,,I feel that the Preachers kid has an Excellent Point HOWEVER the detail of the story was Taught that thne greatest love was the Father indeed,,May I add that two passages of the Bible that was taught it became a mystery because twice a Father was mentioned without a Mpther or wife in the story,,One was the nstory of JESSE when God instructed Samuel to go to jesse';s house and anoint me a KING,,,and the Prodigal son,,BOTh No wife or mopther was mentioned so God is dealing with Man himself,,,BUT to get anyone side tracked,,,the Prodigal son had many topics to preach and teach from one he walked away with his heriatge,,he said Father give me my Portion when he should have been saying father teach me and this is why the world is in the stated that it is in everybody want there portion and dont want to be taught that values and penalties for sin,,now if you would really view the Prodigal,,and all that he went through bnefore HE CAME TO HIMSELF,,hard times will make you pray,,and you dont know God till God is all you got,,he was chasing fast skirts and slow horses,,and spent everything living the life as a SINNER,,and yes the Father did recieve him back that my friend was the meat of thge story,,,and as far as losing salvation,,,he had to be holding on to something in order to let it go
Amen Brother Eric