Salvation is it eternal regardless of the circumstances or not come on lets get everyone’s opinion

But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.

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How can Yeshua be slain before the foundation of the world? If Yeshua was the sufficient sacrifice for the sins of the world as John said "Behold the lamb of God that comes to take away the sins of the world John 1:29. The writer of Hebrews contrast the ministry of angel, the priesthood, the temple, Melchizedak, the high priest, and Moses, against the high priest of a better covenant and that redemption thru His blood and that Christ sacrifice was once and for all. The two quotes from Jeremiah 31in Heb 10:15-18 demonstrate that Christ's sacrifice results in both the inner transformation or sanctification of the believer Hebrews 10:16 and in the forgiveness of sins or justification vs 17. Jesus is the founder and the perfecter of our faith.

Anthony faith comes from hearing the word of God, how then can you maintain faith if you have turned away from the word of God. 

Also John 3:16 said that Godso love the world that He gave his only begotten son that WHOSEVER BELIEVE.  it did not say who God made believe but WHOSOEVER so someone who has turn their back on gone astray surely do not believe. You can quote John 1:29 but I can quote you John 15, simply put one is only sustain if one remain in Christ if one decide to walk away then they will shivelled up and die because my die the branch cannot survive unless it is attach to the tree.  And sin is a separate from God so how can one survive when one has chosen to separate from the branch.

Everyone seems to be able to quote "faith comes by hearing and hearing from the  word of God," yet when that was written there was no Bible? So if that is true it is then a sin for not even understanding that verse in its meaning "faith cometh by hearing." It certainly is missing the mark to think that the Bible can be substituted  for Jesus or Yeshua? That would make it idolatry if a person thinks that faith cometh by hearing the Bible? 

Then of course the next comment is that "whosoever believe," but what does that "believe" really mean? It could mean that for example that "we can do all things through Christ," or it could mean that we simply believe we are saved or somewhere in between? If we really believe then would we not be doing a whole lot more than we are? The power of God to raise the dead or heal the sick or to forgive sin as examples? Whosoever believes 100% or 1% or is it somewhere in between? If we use John 3:16 and if we understand 1 John 3:16 we are supposed to lay our lives down so that others may live as Jesus laid down His life for us, but in honesty how many people lay down their lives as Jesus did? Do we lay down our lives to end starvation or homelessness or to heal the sick or care for those in prison? If we can do all things through Christ then we should be able to do all of those things? 

That makes it a very conditional love it would seem. We are all about as goofy as a box of rocks? We like to think we know what we are doing, but in all honesty all one can do is put their best foot forward? I mean we all make sounds like "we cannot fix ourselves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit" and what you are suggesting here is that we are saved by doing something? Frankly I am not really even certain we have a real understanding of what sin really is? We take our best guesses, but do we know? For example we the commandments are important, but how many people really honor the Sabbath? I mean how many people really even know how to honor the Sabbath? 

Jesus said that He would never leave us or forsake us. In addition the only reason we have life according to scripture is because of the Holy Spirit.

If sin separates us from God, then how could anyone even come to God. Normally people come forward to receive or accept, but that does not happen on our own, as true repentance comes from God? 

Of course then again we have concepts of what we think salvation is but what happens if God sees salvation as being led by the Spirit of God or by being a peacemaker for they are the children of God? I mean we are all so happy to suggest that one is saved by "simply believing" but scripture does not say that?

My dear Sarah are you disputing that faith comes from hearing the word of God does that then mean you do not believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God.  Are you also attempting to rewrite John 3:16 which is so plain that even the blind can see and understand that God my dear gave His only son that anyone my dear who choose to believe in the son can have eternally life not everybody but those who choose to believe and to believe my dear means believe in who and what he represent. My dear salvation comes from simply believing, satification, purification and justification are altogether another matter so dont get them mix up my dear.

Sorry bro i did not read your reply b4 answering forgive me.

because we still have an obedience to Gods commandments!!

No scripture ever implies such a belief. He dies for sins that are past. That does not leave an excuse for us to say that even if we sin in the future it is "already forgiven" If that were the case we would not need to repent and confess IF we did sin.

Thanks for the compliement George but really the best person to learn from is God ,He is the one with the answers and tthe one who help those with an ear to hear and eyes to see and a mindset to understand the wisdom of His word

@James. Now you're going back to the LAW. we are not under the law my brother! WE never were. Jesus died & bore ALL of our sins!! THe work on clavery is a FINISHED WORK!. So while you are quoting Ezekiel remember keep the text within the content of which it was written. Jesus said no man can pluck them out of my hand. also Jude wrote. now unto Him who is able to keep us from falling & to present us faultless..... if one is truly born again your Salvation is SECURE. If you have the Holy Ghost, how could you think differently?? Study my brother, study the word of God & Understand. ~peace - arr

Actually that does not take a person back to the law, but it does in a way, because if we love God then we will keep His commandments out of love. So while we are not stuck to the law, the law is a yard stick to see where a person is at in our relationship with God, because If we do not keep the commandments at least it clearly says we do not love God and that is New Testament and not just Old Testament.

 

For example, do we have the heart of God to keep the law or are we just lawbreakers? Somewhere in there we are to keep the Sabbath and while no one should tell another what to do on the Sabbath the Sabbath is important to keep as it is God's way of doing things.

 

I realize there is this great teaching that says ok we saved, don't have to keep the law or commandments and can do anything we want, but that really is a very dangerous doctrine to be preaching, bringing up a whole generations of lawbreakers and not peace keepers. I mean if one is a lawbreaker they do not keep the peace, but work to bring war. It clearly also states that blessed are the peacemakers as they are the children of God, so what do we do? We declare war on terrorism, which allows the US to declare war on everyone including people in the church.

 

Look at it honestly we all say that one needs to be obedient and then we send mixed signals to people they don't have to do anything to be saved? Oh yes, free gift and with that you don't have to do anything to be saved. Great no wonder why no one is doing anything?

 

Let's take this a step further. Everyone preaches God has a plan for us and for some reason we go back and fourth as to what the plan is? Granted it starts with the cross, but then there is seeking God for His will in everything. Where we work, who we marry or even our purpose and calling in the body of Christ. Ok thats obedience. If that is obedience, then what is happening is disobedience and is little wonder why things are such a mess on earth, but it does sell a lot of books and build a lot of church buildings, but does not help a lot of people in need which is what is happening..........

 

Mark these words........... the leaders in the church will be held responsible for what we teach and preach. Our report card is the condition of this planet. While leadership is cool and wonderful the downside is we are responsible for what is happening out there and if your God is telling you differently, then somewhere people have been deceived. Israel when they did not follow God's instructions wandered in the wilderness forever. We are here to make sure no one wanders in the desert. We as leaders either did or job or didn't.

 

Being a minister is not a peace of paper we can hang on the wall to make it look like we know what we are talking about or even some title we might walk around with. It is a scary place to be doing either because God holds us the leaders of the church responsible for it all. If we think otherwise we deceive ourselves and as a result we deceive all those that are dumb enough to follow us. Ok that's a little harsh, but it is the truth.

 

Today we can wake up and smell the coffee and turn things around, which is our responsibility to God. His promise to us is that if we as leaders of the church teach those that follow us, He brings us to a place of provision and safety, which is not what the great tribulation is about. It happens because the leaders of the church are not teaching the truth.

 

God has given us all a huge responsibility and many instead of seeking God for the truth in what is said here, will fall back and call me an idiot for being so wrong...... but these words are not my words. They are His.

If peradventure ( dont take it is as your own will and choice ) God grant repentance.!

So any and every action is weighed and presumption is as big as any sin,ask Uzzah.

Pride and presumption,cousins.Both an abomination.

PAUL DECLARED THE WHOLE COUNSEL.! CRUEL ANGELS OF LIGHT WONT.!

Dont presume Your salvation, only  *GODS* faithfulness to do *HIS* part in it.

BE CAREFUL TO MAINTAIN EVEN GOOD WORKS TITUS SAYS TWICE.

To OSAS is to do a Universal Redemption ISM, onus on *GOD* or *HE* is partial..

No free will. The mystery of iniquity - - -.

Sure noone can pluck You from *HIS* hand but Yourselfwill not denied as *HE* asked.

Not taking up Your cross daily and following.

Heb 10:  35 - - -to - - -39.

And the truth shall make you FREE.

To receive grace to operate in faith,which works by LOVE.

AND WALK IN THE *LIGHT* AS ONLY THEN DOES THE `BLOOD` CLEANSE.

BE WARNED.!

KEEP TO YOUR OWN CALLING OR BE A TRANSGRESSOR AGAINST *GOD* AND THE BODY.

WHATSOEVER IS NOT OF FAITH IS SIN.

If a man turns his back on salvation and died without repenting he went to hell,remember Matt, 13.some fell on good grown, some on stony, Hebrews 6:4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. As far as the question about Judas, Romans 9:21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor ? The word honor in greek is time- tee-may, which means a value,esteem of the highest degree, or the dignity itself. The word dishonor is atimia, which means infamy,indignity, disgrace,reproach and vile. Some of us were made to have value and dignity, to be used by the master,and some were made like Judas to fulfill  that purpose which was to betray him..

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