Salvation is it eternal regardless of the circumstances or not come on lets get everyone’s opinion

But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.

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By your words before NO ONE understood it in the way you said it here. And rightfully so. When i here people say "Diobedience does not seperate me from God" without explaining what they mean then i will resp0ond with SCRIPTURE. Call it judging if you like. The truth is how you wrote that statement it sounded exactly like you were making provisions for the flesh. It is good to here that you walk in obedience to God without sin as we are all called to walk. I Praise God for his power that works in his children. You quoted something else in error sister. You said "doesn't the scripture say we should not judge" You would be in violation of that understanding by even responding the way you did. However, The scripture actually does in MANY places teach us to judge righteously(if you would like a lesson on true judgement and the correct meaning of Christ words "Judge not" inbox me and i will be more than willing to share with you), that is according to the revealed word of God. But even if it did not the word has already judged by itself. If you were to be in sin or in error and i quoted you a passage concerning that sin would you tell me "Don't judge" Why?

Ramon if you read what I wrote you would understand that I made a personally statement about me that was why the ME was there I can vouch for my faith and I personally relationship to Christ because I know what Christ has done for me and I have personally seen his miracles manifest in my life I also know what my life was like before I accept him which is sufficient for me to know and realise the great hope that I have in Christ so I can say personally that you are no one else neither sin or disobedience will separate me from the destiny that I have in Christ. You see many may say they believe in Christ but really it is lip service because they declare they believe but they want to live a life opposite to what He taught, i say I believe and to me to believe is follow His ways and to strive to do the things that He taught and to live the life that He led.  And thank God his Spirit is here to help me and to guide me and to convict me of the things that is wrong so I have no excuse in sinning because even at the very thought the Spirit begins to convict so a person who is a believer who then sin makes a choice to sin because they opted to ignore the conviction of the Holy spirit. I my brother am fearful of the consequent of ignoring the conviction which comes before the very act so I have no intention of going out there to willfully sin and I do take the opposite view to Sarah there are many people who knows something is wrong and if it is wrong it is a sin yet they will do it anyway hoping not to be caught but let me say this none of us should kid ourself because God knows our every thought.

Brother I suggest you begin to read this discussion from the very begin of where I start it right through so you can indeed see my stand on the subject. Also I will put the lack of understanding of what one is saying to the fact that not all of us are from the same country or the same culture so therefore the words use by one might protray something else to a another. Even between you Americans and us here in the UK there appear to be a difference in how we use the words we use.

Like I state before if someone writes something that you don't understand then ask politely don't jump to being judgemental because it is not your job to be judge.

And by the way Sarah using ones real name is a personal choice it has nothing to do with whether one is a believer or not and more to do with the fact in some countries there are people who seek to abuse anothers identity. So that was a cheap shot. I use my name because I choose to and because my riches is in heaven and no one can steal my salvation, I can give it away by foolish deeds but it cannot be snatched away while I remain in the will of God by staying on the path that God has laid for me. 

Well, on the name thing you probably are correct, but I would rather read advice from a person than perhaps one that calls themselves "humpty dumpty?"

Advice should or should not be taken by one's creditably and not just a few words used here and there. A credible person has worked to be established?

Back to the concept of all of this, I would have thought that we are all ministers of one form or another and either seeking how to make things work in what they have been called to do or seek fellowship with others or seek to help others and not just spout off a bunch of stuff? I could be wrong on that, granted but it is what I would like to think. Part of that concept of integrity?

I also want to add that this place should be about encouraging each other and exhorting each other to stand together against the enemy and for all believers to find their purpose and calling in the body of Christ and walk in it. We in the body of Christ are all leaders, but most do not even understand and there are many reasons why they do not understand. 

For too long evangelical Christianity has dominated the scene focusing on getting people saved when really the focus should have been on bring people to maturity so each can stand to destroy the works of the enemy, but if we hit them hard then they fall away as they are babies believing they have been taught at these so called revivals. They have been taught that all they have to do is believe and Jesus will come back and take us out of the mess we have created. I say we have created because we did nothing to stop them. Yes there has been a lot of responsibility.

The people here as ministers try to get new people in the body to do other than what they are doing but it is not an easy task and beating people over the head only works to scatter believers. 

Love conquers all not rebuke. With rebuke all people do is dig in their heals. 

It is far easier to judge than fix it. Far easier. Judging means you are not forgiving sin, but judging. Scripture is clear that whatever sins you retain, they will not be forgiven and that is on your head personally. 

Then again we have one or more goof in here trying to sell junk in the midst of this important issues?

I believe that was the finger pointing I spoke of:

I dont know if it is the double talk that is so common among "Christians" or if it is just a misunderstanding. But way too many times i hear cliche that totally contradicts the Word and then the Person says "No that is not what i mean". So after being asked to expound on what they mean they either totally contradict their last statement or confirm what they just said in a more complicated, confusing manner. We would all do Good to pick one side of the fence and hop off. We cant please everyone.

...Now if WE could just follow the Basic Mitzvot and Please the Creator ...with love from one to another globally...the world would be a better place.
enjoy your journey'

Ramon, it is not that their is double talk it is the fact that you have entered this conversation more than two years after I started it and instead of spending time reading it from the beginning to try and follow the thread of conversation or thought thinking you dive straight in to critise. Had you started at the beginning and work your way down you would have a better understanding of the take each person have on this subject. Believe me even though I initiated this discussion I still have to go back and reread time and time again to make sure I have not going off with my response. 

Maybe aif the conversation is getting confusing it maybe that this topic is running its coarse and maybe then I shpuld consider closing it sometime soon. I will try and go through and see if it would be worthwhile summarising the answer taking into account those that believe one can lose their salvation with counter arguement from those who say salvation is for life regardless.

This statement to Ramon is actually Idolatry,..It states there is a Need for more than the leading of the holy Spirit - {to use your terms...} for it is trying to say the Ruach HaKodesh cannot lead the seeker into the middle of a discourse and have merit to give>>That is sad.

There is NO TIME or DISTANCE in the realm of Creation only WE the people live in this confine of time and space.

Wisdom comes first and foremost from the Creator~That is the meaning of" Freely given-Freely received".

As well to say that one is not of the Same spirit as another is again another denial as WE are all one spirit from the ONE~Creator.

Wisdom Knowledge and Finally great understanding~can take the journey of a lifetime to learn.
Simply It is what has been Revealed...and what is Hidden". from people that needs correction'
But a person cannot receive that wisdom from the Creator in this corporeal world until they finally realize that it is they themselves that are in need...of Correction.

A guy you may recognize understood that principle :When he addresses his Moreh/ Teacher and states "I am undone...I am not whole, I am not complete,

Or as my christian neighbors say~"I need more of HaShem and Less of me" to be free.

Well Shekinahlife it appears you are quite anxious to find students to teach but have it occured to you that just maybe we don't want what you have to teach.  Then again as you have become quite abusive when one disagree with your point of view maybe you would be bestfor you to find willing student elsewhere


Personally I have No needs..EGOism has long ago been the agenda of daily Self-nullification as your Rabbi - Jesus /Yeshua /Joshua  taught ,.. as most Jewish children understand that principle before the Bar Mitzvot ( age 12)
Why is.being that hated term A Jew or Yud

so despicable to some folks?

No I only desire you to accept what you already understand..and ADD so additional wisdom or adjustment to be closer to the Truth than a misconstruction...However a contention to some is the word STUDY'

Amazing word

SO, sadly your contention against the Wisdom given freely Indicates a desire toward This is the Meaning of Anti-Christ or one who will not allow the Wisdom of the Torah to come forth to the Seekers...

~So Salvation cannot be found here

Why,...because the Leader has been found Wanting and in Contempt for the Word of YHVH which Jesus died for According to your theology...
So who is wrong...
~~What came first the Torah and Exodus Or Romes Misconstruction over 1700 years of Provable time
Did you mention that you advocate Crucifying your Savior all over again".
Your right~absolutely nobody wants to relate to a Jewish Jesus.

Even thou the man was from the Tribe of Judah and Paul/shaul was from the tribe of Benjamin.Sadly once again Nobody incarcerated in the religion of Rome theology-  Dare to Relate to a Jew' ...that is pretty clear..
And so Murderous EGOism will continue to rule the planet with the Lashon Harah of the Goyim'..
Very understandable..because the simplest thing to believe is in the hear after..that Somebody did it all for you..which clears you to sin..or cheat or lie or whatever is permissible in your own sectarian mindset.

Hmmmmmmmmm, I think that was what Indulgences were paid to the Mother Church so that one could violate the scriptures,... even murder and the Payment covered the gross sins....

Zoroastrianism is what most of the Hellenism teachings today are based upon.

You might like to check that out

Enjoy your journey>
~Baruch Shem Kivod Malchuto LeOlam Va'ed!!! Blessed Be His Glorious name Whose Kingdom is Forever and Ever!!!


This may be of interest to a seeker The most famous of all Jewish-Christian disputations: Nachmanides(the Ramban) - Shekinah~Life




"Behold you have sinned against G-d. And you your sin will find you." ~~ Numbers 32:23

Here is what is wrong and you have transgressed against His people and against Him to put this is simplest terms regardless whether you are right or not. 

To put this in plain terms here so everyone can understand what exactly I am saying is that you and I and others are guests here. We are allowed here I am assuming so that truth can become evident, which is not my truth or your truth, but His truth. 

So far from what I know about you is that you come to deceive and I find that offensive in the highest level. It is defensive to G-d and me as well and probably others although I have not discussed this with anyone else except to take it to G-d who is my judge. 

Where you are deceptive is that you use terms that I am not familiar with and then bombard everything with pages and pages and pages of information except you do NOT give testimony yourself, which is what everything should be about and not some wonderful sounding teaching that is designed to scatter the sheep. 

G-d is easily understood. I have known Him and He has known me and I stay for His love, will and have no other agenda. You come in and make half accusations which is not of G-d. You are vague and do not answer questions, but give volumes of information that often does not answer the questions, but creates more questions which is not G-d's way. His ways are kind and gently and does not work to overwhelm, but to take people by the hand and lead them into righteousness by love and a part of love is respect even when people like myself maybe in error. He does not treat people as if everyone is in error, because in truth everyone is in error compared to Him.

G-d and His ways are the example and if you claim to be a servant, you honestly are not doing very well. A servant does not blast people and you do that intentionally not reaching out to people in love and or concern. G-d is a servant to the servant and His people if they are His people are also servants to the servant and does not blast them, but approaches by love, by His Spirit to move people, not to a teaching but to Him having a better relationship with Him. 

What you have to put this in simplest terms and all you have or I have or anyone else has is what we can testify to and that comes from what you have experienced or witnessed and that is what we should be sharing with others, not a lot of teachings or knowledge unless it is asked for. The Spirit of G-d His heart does not blast at people even if they are in error in their beliefs and frankly there are a lot of bad beliefs in the body of Christ, but His servants are not sent to blast, but to love always exhorting to have a closer relationship with G-d and not just more and more and more teachings.

You have not spoken once of love, but more and more teachings. You have not said that you care about them or here to serve or help people in what they have been called to do, but to teach and teach and yet teach more, which is very time consuming as there are only so many hours to the day. It takes time to seek G-d for the truth about anything. Many of us have responsibilities to care for the needs of people. So what comes first their needs or a teaching? There are volumes of information one can read, but what we really have to share is our testimony.

What you have clearly said and deceptively so is that everyone is wrong and you are right except you personally as a part of your testimony do not answer questions but provide volumes of information to read in a day or two's time, not answering any question directly, but blasting people with too much information.

Why is providing a real name important? It is important so someone can get to know you and your works so that they may see the truth of who you are and the fruit that you have. All we, any of us have to make sure one is of Him is by our love one for the other and that love and or even concern does not seem to be present except for more and more of 60 years of your teaching using your words. You focus greatly on sin, which sin is death instead of speaking words of life. 

I don't know about you, but my Messiah gave His life so I could approach His Father directly, which is not something you have mentioned yet. My Father knows all things and shares with His children those things they need to know should we seek Him. The law of love and liberty is far greater than just books of the law as the law of love and liberty brings us to to life directly through Him. You have stated stated several times that salvation is through Torah instead of a relationship with Him of which is all I have at least to speak about. 

Out of this you can either step back and seek G-d for the truth or continue to blast. So far you have chosen to blast and it is my hope that you will do something different. Yeshua was plain, He did not bring out a large amount of scrolls, but spoke to people what G-d's Spirit gave Him to speak and if He is the example then what you have provided thus far is not what Yeshua did. So you tell me either He was or was not the example? 



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