having been called on by those exposed , those doing the exposing, finally those who were hurt,destroyed,almost destroyed/affected by this issue, to war through prayer , sound ,compassionate wisdom,understanding,and relentless adherence to scripture through the HOLY GHOST on the matter of deliverance,healing,and restoration, should they be restored to office? what about the mess in the wake ( p.s. i wasn't called on until after the fact. sometimes months,some instances years .)CHRIST is so soon to come and that these things still have to be dealt with is @ times "mind boggling"

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thought i'd jump back are so right, people are not blind,they are watching,we are to be "epistles read of men," @ times it seems (to me) we are so into being"tolerant/understanding" we forget we serve a holy GOD!!!! HE has demanded we be holy even as HE is holy.(this probably won't get my friends invite box filled)lol ,but holiness (not to be confused with what some, have made into a denomination ) is right!.and to whom much is given ,much is required.thank GOD for all those in leadership ,starting with me ,the time of the "hook" is
well that is a touchy subject i beleive that afther a pearson has repented and god has forgiven then i beleive that that person should be minister to train taught mentored and my god delivered
Let me share a different scenario,(Now I personally feel that would be too much temptation to place ones self back over men, ) but many men and women, that experienced same sex situations go back and minister to men and women in prison how God delivered them.

I'll never forget the minister who stated he was a man that saw that he would have to live a celibate life and was fine with that, to be pleasing to God, but God delivered and now he is married with children, and going back to the prisons where he emerged a gay man, to spread a gospel that changed him into a saved man.

I think on Minister McClurkin with his testimony, it really does not matter what we think, but what God SPEAKS, and I can get accused of "throwing stones" I keep my armor on! but God's word is God's word, Old things have passed away all things become NEW
Amen Minister Leigh Busby,
I find myself constantly ducking from stones here on this network but it's all good because Jesus & the Apostles had to duck and said that we would too. The bottom line is right is right and wrong is wrong. As your wife pointed out, Moses & David were dealt with the way God intends for us to deal with things.

There will be those that will always misunderstand and cast stones but the truth must be told any how. No one is saying that a brother or sister should not be restored neither are we saying that they cannot continue in ministry.

I believe this topic was referencing those in leadership over other peoples souls such as pastors and bishops and such. These are they that should not be restored to leadership after such actions especially those that harm children. When speaking of a brother or sister that has fallen in homosexual actions but they were not in leadership, no one has said, crucify them, but restore them. (not the same for those in leadership)
From my understanding of the bible, it teaches that we must forgive and all has fallen short of the glory of God. I f our Father can forgive and restore then who are we not too. Everyone has a diliverance of some sort. Church people if you know what I mean seem to condem more than true worshipers, because we ( the true worshipers) know that satan only comes to steal, kill, and destroy anything that is good in us or about us. He comes to take our joy and if we do not excersise our power he will continue to do that. Yes he or she should be restored if he or she has truly been delivered from it. Test the spirit and use your decernment that God has given you.
Sister Pamela,
I have a question for you. If a pastor or youth pastor has been engaged in child molestation and served his jail time and has claimed deliverance, should he be restored to that position? Should he or she be allowed to reclaim a position in which he will be once again dealing with children.

I think this is the point that everyone is trying to make that sometimes people are hurt by the actions of leaders and shouldn't the concern be more for the children, women or members that were hurt by this? No one is saying not to restore them as a brother or sister, but do you feel they should be put back in this same position after these lewd sexual acts?
Amen Sister Pamela, You are showing faith in God's Word, and not man's fears. The bible distinctly states "if we do not forgive, God will not forgive us"

Now as you state we must try the Spirits by THE WORD OF GOD,not our feelings, and we must be wise as serpents especially when it comes to our children, one who has fallen may be restored to a position where they are not alone or in contact with children, "mans' law will do that"

Just think if the church announcing clerk was caught lying and she repented, should she no longer be able to do the announcements?

May sound far fetched, but the bible states that liars as well as sexual deviates do not inherit the kingdom of God
Brother I hear you,
I too have dealt with casualties of the church and almost became one myself. God is good. Some of the sisters and brothers damaged by one of my former pastor's sexual deviance are so damaged that it will definitely take a move of the holy spirit to free them.

It confuses me at how easily church people dismiss the hurts caused by these so called leaders and say that all must be forgotten. We can certainly forgive but sometimes removal is key in starting the healing process for the victims. It kind of reminds me of the cases where you know someone has committed a heinous crime such as murder and everyone is crying for the rights of the criminal. Many times the victims in these crimes get forgotten in the quest for justice to the killer. Of course a fair trial is always warranted but that is not the point I'm trying to make.

I remember a case in Detroit, where one of my husbands best friends was selected for the jury duty. It was a murder trial in which this guy killed multiple people. To make a long story short, certain evidence couldn't be used but enough was presented for a conviction. There were a couple of young black women on the jury and they were the only two that didn't want a conviction, despite the evidence presented. Their excuse was, I'm tired of seeing all of our black men go to jail. Because of this, they had a hung jury and the man was not prosecuted.

The judge later came in to the jury room and told them that their decision let a murderer walk. The evidence that they couldn't use would have proven his guilt beyond any doubt but they had enough for a murder conviction but these 2 young women didn't use good judgment.

My point here is that too many Church Folk want you to look the other way when these leaders fall so horrifically and forget about those that are hurting as a result. These happenings are not all from yesteryear but they are happening right now in today's time.

My question to those that think our words are too harsh is, what about the victims? What about the casualties? Do we just forget them so that some Preacha (preacher) can keep his position? For the record, this discussion is not about someone lying but about an open act of lewdness of a sexual nature. Not saying that lies can't and don't hurt, but that we are speaking of sexual deviance.
Also brother,
It is not popular in this day and time to speak of throwing someone out of the church for this type of behavior. That page has been torn out of many bibles and we better not dare speak of it again unless you wish to endure the wrath of Church Folk. You will be accused of not forgiving people if you enforce this, although the bible says it. LOL

Double lives are permitted in this day and time and those who oppose it better keep quiet or be terminated by church elite. No one has said not to forgive as I have stated several times but even God drew the line on his leaders. Moses is that example. Once again people on this post, WHAT ABOUT THE CASUALTIES? WHAT ABOUT THOSE HURT. DO WE JUST FORGET THEM AND RESTORE THE PASTOR.
I get what you are asking now. You seem to be asking what if a whole community was effected (not just church folk)? What if sinners are discouraged from the actions of a church leader? I can tell you one way to deal with these types of situations, of which the most obvious way is outside of Church walls. Many will not consider going to church after such exposes occur so what do you do then? Once you have their attention and they have given you their ear, wisdom must kick in. While we shouldn't blast the church to an unbeliever we also can't appear to condone it's actions either?

The problem comes in when sinners hear so called Christians making excuses and covering up the mess in the church. What church folk don't understand is, you can through a tarp over a heap of horse manure, but it will still stink. Sinners need and want the truth in these cases. If they ask you how you feel about the mess in the church, you can't go wrong if you simply tell them how God's feels about it. After you have established that, you can then proceed to tell them that our salvation is of God and not man and that we must all work out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling. If they understand that God is the one to fear then they can certainly begin to hear the wisdom of the truth.

If they are still lending an ear to what you have to say that means that you have won their confidence. From there, a solid foundation can be built on which you can now minister grace to this person and bring them into salvation. The question then comes, where do you send them to church after you have caught the fish? Many don't seem to understand that many casualties are a result of these churches. Home Churches are again on the rise. Some don't think they ever existed but they are the foundation (where it all began) They are again growing and as God sees fit we will be able to move into bigger buildings to accommodate the growth. Amen.

The important issue here are the lost souls and not the church folks and their egos.

OMG... man oh man oh man... you hit on something again!!!

You said:

Many don't seem to understand that many casualties are a result of these churches. Home Churches are again on the rise. Some don't think they ever existed but they are the foundation (where it all began) They are again growing and as God sees fit we will be able to move into bigger buildings to accommodate the growth.

My husband and I have both noticed the rise in home churches that look more and more like what is pictured in the book of Acts than what we see as traditional church in America. When we speak about the negative things happening in the "churches" we are only saying what non-Believers and those who have experienced not just one time church hurt but recurring church hurt. Because we speak of these things, many believe that we are anti-church! That is not the case. We are anti-cover up! LOL

It's like the big uproar when it was revealed that the Catholic church had been covering up the sexual (and homosexual) sins of the preists for YEARS! I remember church folk (Protestants) were outraged at this. And yet, the same happens in the Protestant churches across the globe but most prominient here in America. The hypocrisy of it all is alarming!

But again, hubby and I aren't saying to publicly blast a person the moment you find out something. We are just saying do it God's way... Matthew 18. If we do it like that then we, as Believers, will be blameless. But when you aid and abed by covering up a sin instead of dealing with it, then you are just as bad as the person who committed the sin. And the world knows it!

There's a really good movie quote that I use:

"That white stuff on top of chicken poo... is chicken poo too"

Just because the mess is in the church and all white with Christianity, doesn't make it less a mess!

Home churches are on the rise becuase many want to get back to the core community of Christianity. There is a desire for the Book of Acts type of Church.

Have you ever read the Left Behind series of books? That type of environment births home churches. What type of environment... firey tribulation!! When the Gospel is under siege, people band together to protect it and shelter themselves. How is the Gospel under seige today??? By the hypocrisy in the Body of Christ! WE are the ones attacking God's word by our very lives!

And the Believers who are not trying to make excuses for those who are in leadership that are in habitual secret sin, nor who want to provide scripture coated crutches like the abuse of I John 1:9, well those Believers are tired of the mess and nonsense and want to escape the enviornment that perpetuates those lifestyles. So, yes, home churches are most definitely on the rise. But home churcher's beware, your brethren will most definitely condemn you for "forsaking the assembly" in a REAL church.


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