Should a pastor that spends most of his time preaching and teaching get paid for what God has him to do? I know what the scriptures says about this, but would you pastor for free?

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That's all I am saying. You have hit the nail on the head. It is all about Jesus who is the Christ!!!!!
Mrs Ford writes: with much dissatisfaction as to how the church is working...so was I...
It is arrogant foolishness of the blind following the blind...Go to Bible school for a year or two...dance real good and the elect of your Demonation or whatever,... will exalt you to lead the little sheeple
Interesting reply...Your heart is in the work of G-d... Now you just have to understand that G-d is everywhere .That G-d is in everything ...that G-d is everything including me and including You.

Much truth within...however let us take it higher..as in Moshie went to the Mountain type...What type of man goes up the mountain to Meet face to face with G-d?


NOT any I have seen on this site for the last three years...No one wants to study..is it really true what the comic states about the arrogance and lack of reading desire in the Afrikan peoples???~..if so it is time to get over Mental Laziness..and do as you allude too: IT IS TIME FOR THE MEN TO GROW UP!!!

Time for the Harlotry from the pulpits of Amerika to stop!


Idolatry has to Stop.

And Mr. Rabbi J-sus which is not any Hebrews mans name EVER!~ That is a name from Hellenized Rome)
Is Not the Moshiach according to the historical archives of Rome.

They refute the Virgin Birth as a first century doctrine that the gods (plural as in many gods-Romes misconstruction)- could come and impregnate women.
The Linage of Mariam does not work ..It only is used to connect this man to a Jewish women.

The Moshiach has to come out of the Sperm Donor..t( read your Bible with clarity) that would have been Yoseph...after he and Mariam went out to the field and knocked boots or did a wild Cajun monkey dance together...as was done and condoned by the leaders of Israel at the time of the second Temple...(Study your biblical history)
~~~~~It was later, not condoned)

But Rome blew off Yoseph because Sex to the catholic church is dirty( Look at their history on the subject)~
Simply Yeshua is a CAUSER of your Redemption ~IF you walk as he walked..(Yochannon refered to this in 1st John 2:v6)

Mrs Ford If you follow the links and reply's back on this forum that I have put on here Ther is no fluffy bunny stuff It is all designed to awaken the people to read or listen to what is actually taught weather it is about tithing..or Study it has been either from the heart as you wrote...or it has been a deeper look at the original scrolls...The Children do-not want to learn..that is all there is to it..T

hey want the Money --power of Ego---or status..However to go and study as a Wise man...That I have not seen on BPN...Ever.

What I have noted is contention..and arrogance and just plain Mental-Laziness..in this race of People...


Before Slavery You were the Masters pride of the Sephardi..Yemenite...Ethiopian peoples...Now this is just plain Harlotry and arrogance..with a thick layer of Pride without humility...IMHO>

TD Jakes and all the other Masters you follow have not a clue as to the real walk of a Pious man..it is all about Adonai..has nothing to do with Romes version of antisemitism( Proved in WW2 historically ~They still refuse to open up their records to what was going on during the war and why Rome stayed out of it)
Time to study your rich History...Time to come out of her Much like Avraham.
I have spent the better part of forty years serving the Master...It is all about the Marriage at Mt Moriah.at Sinai desert..when HaShem came down to earth and Married the Hebrew people~AND~ The stranger with them...It was then that the Ketubah( marital-contract EG Torah or the Ten Mitzvopt) was signed...and contrary to Romes and the prostestant daughters version..ther is no divorceand therefore there is no need for the Replacement theology of Rome..and all the Misconstruction and historically inserted fabrcation over 1700 years at the hands of Rome:

Simply Rome is the NWO chosen religion..it is simply obvious all the Elite illuminate types bow at her alters therefore it has nothing to do with us a s men growing up in a household of Torah observance....

observing the seven feasts unto the L-rd as is in the scriptures.( I put all the scriptural references to this a few posts back~~for those interested..


Enjoy your YOM KIPPUR~~~
Shalom Aleichem

Until all is a Shabbat~~~Yom Shekulo Shabbat~!

END OF DISCUSSION CHANGE THE SUBJECT
Heeeeey I am shouting for that word you said, lol... To God be the glory in all we do. Be blessed
I wouldn't call it pastoring for free neither would i say pastor's should charge a fee to pastor a church. Scriptures states that they that labour at the altar are partakers of the altar. You don't also muzzle the ox that treads out the corn. We are responsible to bless those who have blessed us in spiritual things with are carnal blessings. In Nehemiah, the people were to support the priesthood and when this was not done, the priest delved into what they were not supposed to. What i'm saying here is that a pastor is not supposed to ask for fees just as a church must also understand their financial obligation towards a pastor coming to serve. This is not optional, it is a covenant obligation.
Not having read all of the comments I have to say how could anyone expect a pastor to work for free?

The church has a governing body (or should have), and that body plans and manages the salary, living allowance, insurance, travel for church business of the pastor.

If a pastor works for free how would you expect him to live?

Let's not kid ourselves. These are not Biblical days and times. This is the real world out here, and no one should be expected to work for free. Pastors have much to do besides preaching on Sunday morning. Heck, just putting up with members of the congregation with their calls/mess/unholy intentions are enough to deserve a salary LOL! I know because I am a PK.

With that being said, I do not respect the pastor that lives a lavish, flashy, over the top life-style while members of the church is basically poor. I remember one woman saying that she went to a certain pastor of a church and told him her family was being evicted and she needed a loan, and he told her to just continue to pray and GOD would see her through. This woman had given to the church for years, but could not depend on the church to even pay one months back rent so they could keep a roof over their head. This pastor drives the finest cars and lives high on the hill, wears $3000 suits, and flashes diamond & gold rings, watches and chains! He and his wife lives very well.

A pastor should keep his class about himself. He should be a man of quality and excellent character. Class is not about having money/wealth. You either have it or you don't.
Janet writes:"Not having read all of the comments I have to say how could anyone expect a pastor to work for free?
Perhaps you might want to check back through some of My comments on this issue...

The Original understanding of a Tzaddik (the 'I' always sounds like an 'E" in Hebrew) of a pious benevolent man who spent a lifetime in Torah study then went out to do good for HaShem and his community was not of the mind set of those in the diaspora,...Or the church of Rome for that matter.
The common Hebrew child starts at 3yrs of age in the teachings and traditions`and by his Bar Mitzvot would stump any of the Wannabes leading the flocks astray today in the church of 23,000 divisions, truly IMHO a failure of the prayer of ~John 17: ~"I Daven (pray) that you become Echad (one) with ABBA as I am Echad with ABBA.( Father)

nearly 3400 years of the Hebrew Torah Talmud and various surround writings and there is only eight sects..and really they are the same on The Shema that is mandatory...but the only differences is Ashkenazim or Sephardi or some of the other cultures out of Israel who practice various customs differently.
Nothing Changes in Judaism as it is a Lifestyle based upon a Marriage at Mt. Horeb in the Sinai desert 49-50 days after the exodus( And there is NO divorce) Therefore it is not a church thing.

It is however a Lifestyle,... Observing the festivals unto Ha'Shem ( the Name) or YHVH as it is written in the TaNaKh the original and only book of Moshie of Blessed memory and when we see that in the Torah ( five books of Moshie)
....we say Adonai---which simply means 'My L-rd"


Enjoy your Journey, Shalom Aleichem: ShekinahLife


The members of the congregation are supposed to bless the man of God. I would not be apart of a ministry where I and others were not a blessing to the leadership. Its biblical and those who sow into leadership are blessed.
Does The Bible Support Tithing in This Present Kingdom Age of Grace?

In short, the Holy Scriptures do not support this long held Christian tradition and custom some two thousand years after the death, burial, resurrection of the Messiah, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles in the upper room June 6, 33 AD, Jerusalem (Acts 2:1-3). So anyone tithing or teaching such a doctrine has absolutely no understanding of the mission of the Messiah and the establishment of the New Covenant.

Instead of benefiting the giver, tithing was and is the main source of funds for building religious empires, increasing salaries, erecting churches, advancing evangelical missions, etc. One should also note that the so-called Science of the Mind or new psychology religions teach that tithing must be performed to receive physical blessings from our Heavenly Father. The Apostle John in Revelations (a panoramic vision and revelation given to him in 96 A.D., on the Isle of Patmos) prophesied of this great abomination by modern day religions. In the 18th chapter he says that Mystery Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots, the Abominations of the Earth, would make merchandise of men's souls (Rev. 18:9-13). Former television evangelists Jimmy and Tammy Baker with their "Praise the Lord" (PTL) show, and others, are excellent examples of this Harlot's religious frauds perpetrated on the masses.

Does Tithing Differ from Donating?

The reader should understand the difference between tithing and donating. Under the Law of Moses tithing was mandatory. Churches use the Law of Moses to justify their request for tithes. On the other hand, a donation is a free will gift. An individual feels no condemnation in donating whatever he wants to give from his heart. It must be understood by the readers and truth seekers that soul salvation is not predicated on giving one dime to anybody.

Tithing is mandatory in most churches of Christendom and taught in a way that causes condemnation if the parishioner doesn't or cannot give. In fact, for members of the so-called church to be in good standing, they must tithe or be removed from the church rolls. Ministers play various members against each other by boasting on those that are able to give large tithes. The ministers and the congregation look upon these members in high esteem for their tithe. Those unable to give large donations may be shunned by the pastor and other good standing members. Religious leaders use this form of mind control, psychology, and peer pressure on church-goers to manipulate both the giver and the size of the tithe. The manipulation that religious leaders use to get large tithes places an extra dose of condemnation on the congregation.

Can Tithing Save Your Soul?

It is also implied by many ministers that tithing will save one's soul. However the Apostle Peter states something quite contrary in I Peter 1:18-19: "For as much as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of the Messiah (Christ), as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: " Peter knew the blood of the Messiah was the only acceptable price for sin. But since congregation members are totally ignorant of what the scriptures state on the matter, religious leaders convince them that the reason they aren't receiving blessings from Elohim (God) is because they haven't been tithing.

Now this is part of the circus atmosphere of Christendom to get people to give tithes and deceive men's souls of their eternal inheritance. Thus we see that Christendom is causing the people to sin against Our Heavenly Father and His Son by tithing which is a violation of the New Covenant and denies that the Messiah fulfilled the Old Covenant of Moses. The Apostle John warned all to come out of Mystery Babylon and not partake of her SINS for he said:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and Elohim hath remembered her iniquities (Rev. 18:4-5)."

Did The Messiah Come To Fulfill the Law (Tithing)?

To eradicate this ignorance and erroneous doctrine, one must go to the law and prophets or Old Testament (Isa. 8:20). This will enable all that have eyes to see, to understand how, where, and when tithing was instituted under the law of Moses and the mission of the Messiah. Now the Messiah came to fulfill the Old Covenant and institute or establish the New Covenant by his death, burial, and resurrection (Mt. 5:17-18, Lk. 24:37, 44-46).

Do True Worshippers Worship Yahweh in Spirit and Truth?

The Messiah said to a Gentile woman at Jacob's water well that the time would come when true worshippers would not worship the Father in the temple or at mount Moriah (Jn. 4:20-23). He said: "Elohim (God) is Spirit; and they that worship Him, must worship him in Spirit and Truth" (Jn. 4:24). One worships Elohim (God) in Spirit by a knowledge and understanding of the scriptures. This will establish our faith in the Messiah in us (Eph. 2:8-9; Col. 1:26-27) through grace, and not by performing some traditional rituals or ceremonies of the church or works of the old Law of Moses such as tithing.

How is 'Fulfill' Defined in the Bible and the Dictionary?

The Messiah said that he had come to fulfill the Law and Prophets in the so-called New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, etc.). We will show later in this article what the New Testament is according to the scriptures. He stated in Matthew 5:17-18 the following; "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (See also Matt. 3:13-15; Lk. 24: 27, 44- 45). He did not say He came to institute as Christendom erroneously teaches.

Now Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines the word fulfill as follows: "2 a: to put into effect; b: to bring to an end; c: to measure up: satisfy; 3 a: to convert into reality; b: to develop the full potentialities". The word institute means "a: to originate and get established: organize; b: to set going: inaugurate." One can clearly see that the definitions of the words fulfill and institute are directly opposite each other, and the Messiah could not be doing both simultaneously. Thus the Messiah brought the Old Covenant to an end or translated it into the spiritual reality including tithes.

When Was the Law Instituted?

Yahweh instituted the law (Ex. 19th and 20th chaps.; 24:3-8; Heb. 9:19-22) at Mt. Sinai after the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt 1490 years before the birth of the Messiah. It was Moses that went up into Mt. Sinai and brought down the tables of stone upon which Elohim wrote the Law with His finger (Ex. 32:15-16). The reader and student of the scriptures must know and understand that the Old Covenant or Law of Moses was given to Jews only and not any Gentiles (Rom. 3:1-2; 19). Also that the Messiah was born of a woman (Gal. 4:4), lived, and died under this Old Covenant.

Is The Law Symbolical and Allegorical?

The Messiah told the religious teachers of Israel that they did not understand the law. In John 5:39 He said to them: "Ye search the scriptures (i.e., Law and Prophets or Old Testament): for in them ye think ye have eternal life (by performing the works of the Law of Moses); and they are they that testify of me." Now the Messiah was telling them that everything in the Law and Prophets (Old Testament) was pointing to or was a reflection of Him and His purpose and that He was Eternal Life.

The Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees who took the scriptures literally did not perceive the symbolism and allegory in the law. For example, the temple and tabernacle under the law typified the Messiah's body (Jn. 2:18-21). The Passover lamb slain and eaten pointed to the Messiah, the true Passover lamb (John 1:29; 1 Cor. 5:7-9) and the real spiritual meal (John 6:53-56, Job 34:3). In fact all sacrifices testified of Him (Heb. 10:1-18). The mandatory tithe from Israel to the Levite Priest was a reflect of a soul giving the Holy Spirit his total attention, worship, and faith, as the disciples forsook all and followed the Messiah (Matt. 19:27-30).

In short, the Old Testament was the Messiah's autobiography or life story, which the prophets wrote before He was born (1 Pet. 1:10-12). He appeared to them in visions and revelations and told them what to write before coming through the loins of the virgin Mary. Thus the ultimate purpose of the Old Testament, according to Yahweh, was the prophecy of the coming of his Son Yahshua. It was not a code of conduct or ethics by which to live. To the Israelites, the Apostle Paul said the Law was a schoolmaster to bring them to the Messiah, so that they could be justified by faith (Gal. 3:24-25). Now that we understand both the mission of the Messiah and the purpose of the holy scriptures or the Law and the Prophets (Old Testament), we can begin our investigation of tithing and see if it is valid under the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-34; Heb. 8th - 10th chaps.)

Is Tithing Mentioned in the Bible BEFORE Israel Received the Law?

Tithing is a Hebrew word that means "tenth." The first mention in the scriptures of tithing is after Abraham returned from slaughtering five kings that had kidnapped Lot and his household. He paid homage and tithes to Melchizedek, King and High Priest of Jerusalem (Gen. 14:18-20; Heb. 7:1-9), who blessed Abraham. This has a very deep spiritual significance. Abraham gave his tithe to Melchizedek from his heart. He wasn't following any custom, tradition, percentages, or law.

In another instance, Jacob vowed to give Elohim (God) tithes after seeing Him in a Vision (Gen. 28: 20-22). Elohim (God) told him that his seed would be blessed and multiply as the dust of the earth. Out of reverence and awe, Jacob voluntarily gave a tenth of this blessing to Yahweh (the Lord). Tithing was not required until the giving of the law of Moses to the Children of Israel at Mt. Sinai, 1490 years before the birth of the Messiah.

Was Tithing to the Levites Instituted under the Law?

The children of Israel gave tithes to the priests, as Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, King and High Priest of Jerusalem. The priesthood consisted of the high priest and two low priests who were the sons of Aaron. They were the only ones allowed to officiate and offer sacrifices in the tabernacle for Israel's sins. Now the other Levite priests aided in the assembling and disassembling of the tabernacle and carried the vessels, curtains, etc. (other parts of the tabernacle). Moses in Numbers 18:1-5 wrote as follows:

"And Yahweh (the LORD) said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood. 2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, ... but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness. 3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die...and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you. 5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar: that there be no wrath anymore upon the children of Israel. 6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for Yahweh (the LORD), to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation."

Was The Priest's Only Job To Officiate in the Tabernacle for Israel?

Under the law of Moses tithing was mandatory. There were two reasons Aaron, his sons, and the Levites priests received tithes from the children of Israel: (1) They had no land allotted as an inheritance for Yahweh was their inheritance; (2) They had no time to work the land or perfect any other occupation for gainful employment. Their job was to offer up sacrifices and officiate in the tabernacle for the whole body of Israel continually. Yahweh said the following in Num. 18:20-22: "And Yahweh (the LORD) spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel. 21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service that they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. 22 Neither must the children of Israel henceforth come nigh the tabernacle of the congregation, lest they bear sin, and die."

Did Yahweh Demand Tithes of the Priests?

Under the law of Moses the priests collected tithes from Israel. However, they were also required to offer up a tenth of the tithes they collected to Yahweh (the Lord, Num. 18:26, 31):

"Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for Yahweh (the LORD), even a tenth part of the tithe ... And ye shall eat it in every place, ye and your house-holds: for it is your reward for your service in the tabernacle of the congregation."
Very good treatise but you need to cite your source...http://www.plim.org/tithing.html

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Greetings everyone,

Long time no post.  A man or woman of God who is in the will of God for the plan and will of God, will be in overflow and increase anyway.  No opinion can stop or bad doctrine can stop God from Blessing His people. Pastor or not.

In Christ

Pastor R. Phillips

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