Soteriology - Black Preaching Network2024-03-28T17:17:16Zhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topics/soteriology?feed=yes&xn_auth=noThank you for the feedback, B…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-09-11:916966:Comment:44085072012-09-11T08:18:58.039ZJoseph Gillhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JosephGill
<p>Thank you for the feedback, Brother Todd. Your explanation of the shade of meaning associated with "preliminary" now makes me wary of using that word. My intent is not say that the propitiatory death of Christ was an event that preceeded a "fuller or more important" act of the Holy Spirit. I wasn't trying to rank the ministry of the Holy Ghost above the work of Christ. From now on I think I will use the term "initiative stage," as that more accurately reflects the importance I place on that…</p>
<p>Thank you for the feedback, Brother Todd. Your explanation of the shade of meaning associated with "preliminary" now makes me wary of using that word. My intent is not say that the propitiatory death of Christ was an event that preceeded a "fuller or more important" act of the Holy Spirit. I wasn't trying to rank the ministry of the Holy Ghost above the work of Christ. From now on I think I will use the term "initiative stage," as that more accurately reflects the importance I place on that first stage of salvation.</p>
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<p>As you can see from my response above, though, I am not in a hurry to abandon the view of salvation as being a process. I used the word "step" in the post, which I see can impart the unfortunate imagery of the believer "taking steps" toward salvation. However, as I described them, the "steps" in the process of salvation were performed by Jesus and by the Holy Ghost. I championed no "human-produced steps," but I did describe a process of separate actions by the Second and Third Persons of the Godhead.</p> Brother Joseph, I too appreci…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-09-05:916966:Comment:43969602012-09-05T18:02:42.405ZRev. Todd H. McCauleyhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ToddHMcCauley
<p>Brother Joseph, I too appreciate your treatise on the "order of salvation". This kind of theological thinking is sparse in the African American Context. It appears that we are far more concerned with "Titles" than "Theology", "Privileges" than "Precepts". It's refreshing when someone desires to go "deep" versus merely skiing across the surface. With that being said, I read your post with closeness and my feedback follows:</p>
<p>1. I agree that "Natural/Fallen" man is alienated from God…</p>
<p>Brother Joseph, I too appreciate your treatise on the "order of salvation". This kind of theological thinking is sparse in the African American Context. It appears that we are far more concerned with "Titles" than "Theology", "Privileges" than "Precepts". It's refreshing when someone desires to go "deep" versus merely skiing across the surface. With that being said, I read your post with closeness and my feedback follows:</p>
<p>1. I agree that "Natural/Fallen" man is alienated from God due to inherent sin (Gen 3:8; Eph 2:1).</p>
<p>2. I agree that because of inherent sin, mankind's inclination is evil continually (Gen 6:5)</p>
<p>3. I agree that, "...<span>A corrupted and depraved nature is present in all human life from the point of conception...." (Ps 51)</span></p>
<p><span>4. I'm not sure exactly what you meant here when you said, ".....<span><em><strong> This inclination is the stain on human nature introduced by Adam’s transgression ("as by one man sin entered into the world," Rom. 5:12a); the result of "Original Sin," so called.</strong></em>.."Are you saying that Adam's transgression <em>resulted <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">IN </span></strong></em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">"</span>Original sin" ? <em><strong>Or</strong></em> are you stating that Adam's transgression was the result<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> <em><strong>OF</strong></em></span>"Original Sin"? Both are very different thoughts. I like the expression "inherited sin" rather than "original sin", it's clearer. Just like we <em><strong>inherit</strong></em> physical characteristics from our biological parents so we <em><strong>inherited</strong></em> a sinful nature from Adam our first parent (Rom 5:12).</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>5. I agree when you state, "..<em><strong>.</strong></em></span></span><em><strong>the major concern for all humanity is how we are saved from a deserved condemnation.</strong></em>..." One of my absolute favorite Preachers, Dr. John MacArthur states that the supreme moral question is, <em><strong>"How can a sinner be forgiven fully, reconciled to Holy God so as to escape Eternal Hell and enter Eternal Heaven"?</strong></em></p>
<p><span><span>6. You stated that the solution to mankind's horribly corrupt condition is preliminarily accomplished through Christ's substitutionary work on the cross, and <em><strong>secondarily</strong></em> through the ministries of the Holy Spirit. To be honest, I have a problem with the use of the word "<em><strong>preliminary</strong></em>" related to the work of Christ. The word "<em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>preliminary</strong></span></em>" means, "an action or event preceding or done in preparation for something fuller or more important". Based on what I'm reading in your post, It appears that the more important emphasis for one's salvation is on the <em><strong>Holy Spirit,</strong></em> please tell me this is NOT the case.</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>7. I don't agree with the use of the word, "<strong>Steps</strong>" in relation to salvation. Salvation <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>is not</strong></span> a series of "<strong>steps</strong>". Salvation is a sovereign work of Grace (Eph 2:8-10). Salvation <em><strong>is not</strong></em> something we do, it's something He's done for fallen sinners <em><strong>incapable</strong></em> of achieving their own salvation. Sinners <em><strong>appropriate</strong></em> salvation not <em><strong>accomplish</strong></em> it. Man brings NOTHING to the salvation table other than that which has been given him namely, faith (Eph 2:8-9). Another reason I object to the use of the words "steps" is that it makes salvation a <em><strong>process</strong></em> versus a <em><strong>sovereign act of God.</strong></em> According to Romans 8:28-30, When God saves a sinner it starts with Election and ends with Gorification, <em><strong>one complete, finished act</strong></em>, <em><strong>not several succesive, human produced steps</strong></em>. As I stated earlier, the only thing sinners bring to the table is faith and that not of ourselves(Eph 2:8-9).</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>8. I don't agree with your understanding of the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit". The BHS is not given for empowerment or Sanctification. According to 1 Cor 12, the BHS is the ministry of the HS for placement. It's the BHS that places the believer in the Body of Christ. So much "Bad" teaching centers around the HS.</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>9. I do agree that Evangelism is to be on the believer's priority list, for no one can appropriate salvation without the hearing of the Gospel (Rom 10).</span></span></p>
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<p><span><span>In His Grip,</span></span></p>
<p><span><span>Rev. Todd </span></span></p> Good study my friend and fgre…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2012-09-05:916966:Comment:43959882012-09-05T09:11:43.379ZPaul Thomashttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/paulbthomas
<p>Good study my friend and fgreeetins from myself Brother Paul from Wales Great Britain. I have a question what do you think about Jesus saying a man <strong>must</strong> be "born of <strong>water</strong> and <strong>Spirit</strong>" John 3:5 considering the fact also that all those saved were baptised and received the Holy Ghost in Jesus name Acts 2:38 Acts 10:44-46. To me salvation without this is not salvation at all. <br/><br/>Paul</p>
<p>Good study my friend and fgreeetins from myself Brother Paul from Wales Great Britain. I have a question what do you think about Jesus saying a man <strong>must</strong> be "born of <strong>water</strong> and <strong>Spirit</strong>" John 3:5 considering the fact also that all those saved were baptised and received the Holy Ghost in Jesus name Acts 2:38 Acts 10:44-46. To me salvation without this is not salvation at all. <br/><br/>Paul</p>