The Controversy of I John 5:7 (Johannine Comma) - Black Preaching Network2024-03-29T11:58:35Zhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topics/the-controversy-of-i-john-57?commentId=916966%3AComment%3A1154171&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThanks Zealot X.
This is mos…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-08:916966:Comment:11719912010-01-08T00:04:42.216ZChaplain Pat Harrishttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ChaplainPatHarris
Thanks Zealot X.<br />
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This is most helpful. I am confident I can get someone to translate this document for me.<br />
<br />
Shalom
Thanks Zealot X.<br />
<br />
This is most helpful. I am confident I can get someone to translate this document for me.<br />
<br />
Shalom Who are these "Christian scho…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-07:916966:Comment:11716342010-01-07T22:00:18.447ZZealot Xhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ZealotX
Who are these "Christian scholars" that you speak of here?<br />
<br />
"Daniel Wallace notes that although Cyprian uses 1 John to argue for the Trinity, he appeals to this as an allusion via the three witnesses—"written of"—rather than by quoting a proof-text-"written that". In noting this, Wallace is following the current standard critical editions of the New Testament (NA27 and UBS4) which consider Cyprian a witness against the Comma. They would not do this were they to think him to have quoted it." -…
Who are these "Christian scholars" that you speak of here?<br />
<br />
"Daniel Wallace notes that although Cyprian uses 1 John to argue for the Trinity, he appeals to this as an allusion via the three witnesses—"written of"—rather than by quoting a proof-text-"written that". In noting this, Wallace is following the current standard critical editions of the New Testament (NA27 and UBS4) which consider Cyprian a witness against the Comma. They would not do this were they to think him to have quoted it." - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_B._Wallace" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_B._Wallace</a><br />
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An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture is a dissertation by the English mathematician and scholar Sir Isaac Newton. First published in 1754, 27 years after his death, it reviewed all the textual evidence available from ancient sources on two disputed Bible passages: 1 John 5:7 and 1 Timothy 3:16.<br />
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Newton describes this letter as "an account of what the reading has been in all ages, and what steps it has been changed, as far as I can hitherto determine by records",[1] and "a criticism concerning a text of Scripture".[2] He blames "the Roman church" for many abuses in the world[1] and accuses it of "pious frauds".[2] He adds that "the more learned and quick-sighted men. as Luther, Erasmus, Bullinger, Grotius, and some others, would not dissemble their knowledge".[3]<br />
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- <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture</a> "But you (Zealot X) are wrong…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-07:916966:Comment:11716302010-01-07T21:59:25.484ZZealot Xhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ZealotX
"But you (Zealot X) are wrong when you think that the trinity falls apart because of this passage."<br />
<br />
Thank you for recognizing that it is a "textual problem" but with all due respect to your "knowledge of <u>my</u> thoughts" if you read my other threads and posts on this matter you will not be under the mistaken impression that the Trinity falls apart just because of the johannine comma.<br />
<br />
Shalom
"But you (Zealot X) are wrong when you think that the trinity falls apart because of this passage."<br />
<br />
Thank you for recognizing that it is a "textual problem" but with all due respect to your "knowledge of <u>my</u> thoughts" if you read my other threads and posts on this matter you will not be under the mistaken impression that the Trinity falls apart just because of the johannine comma.<br />
<br />
Shalom Do you or anyone reading/resp…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-07:916966:Comment:11716192010-01-07T21:54:05.766ZZealot Xhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ZealotX
Do you or anyone reading/responding to this thread have access to a copy of the original Greek manuscripts? If so, I would like to read it for myself.<br />
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<p style="text-align:left"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/CODEX_SINAITICUS_1_John_5_7_8_Comma_Johanneum.JPG/250px-CODEX_SINAITICUS_1_John_5_7_8_Comma_Johanneum.JPG"></img></p>
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Excerpt from Codex Sinaiticus including 1 John 5:7–9. It lacks the Comma Johanneum. The purple-coloured text says: "There are three witness bearers, the Spirit and the water and the blood".<br />
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Do you mean an English translation of it? Somone may have but I personally do not. Such things, if you have…
Do you or anyone reading/responding to this thread have access to a copy of the original Greek manuscripts? If so, I would like to read it for myself.<br />
<br />
<p style="text-align:left"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/CODEX_SINAITICUS_1_John_5_7_8_Comma_Johanneum.JPG/250px-CODEX_SINAITICUS_1_John_5_7_8_Comma_Johanneum.JPG"/></p>
<br />
Excerpt from Codex Sinaiticus including 1 John 5:7–9. It lacks the Comma Johanneum. The purple-coloured text says: "There are three witness bearers, the Spirit and the water and the blood".<br />
<br />
Do you mean an English translation of it? Somone may have but I personally do not. Such things, if you have noticed, are scarce. There are many writings outside the biblical cannon as well as canonical manuscripts. Many of these things do not make it out of the Vatican library.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Comma_Johanneum_missing_NT_1524_Divinae_scripturae_veteris_nouveque_omnia.png/280px-Comma_Johanneum_missing_NT_1524_Divinae_scripturae_veteris_nouveque_omnia.png" target="_blank">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Comma_Johanneum_missing_NT_1524_Divinae_scripturae_veteris_nouveque_omnia.png/280px-Comma_Johanneum_missing_NT_1524_Divinae_scripturae_veteris_nouveque_omnia.png</a><br />
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Greek New Testament published at 1524,<br />
missing the Comma Johanneum Understand, that the original…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-06:916966:Comment:11697722010-01-06T13:39:06.525ZPastor Rodrick Sweet,ThMhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RodrickSweet
Understand, that the original manuscripts are lost to us. But with the 1000's of copies of the GNT we have the best understanding of what was writen. As for the Comma Johanneum which means (a short clause). Many do not know that Mark 16 ends at verse 8 and that 9-20 was added later. These and many others are issuses that we all deal with when read the text.
Understand, that the original manuscripts are lost to us. But with the 1000's of copies of the GNT we have the best understanding of what was writen. As for the Comma Johanneum which means (a short clause). Many do not know that Mark 16 ends at verse 8 and that 9-20 was added later. These and many others are issuses that we all deal with when read the text. Pastor Sweet,
Thank you for…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-06:916966:Comment:11694662010-01-06T03:22:08.241ZChaplain Pat Harrishttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ChaplainPatHarris
Pastor Sweet,<br />
<br />
Thank you for your prompt response. I suspected that we would not have access to the original copy of the Greek manuscript which is why I asked to see a "copy."<br />
<br />
<i>"I am merely asking for access, if available, to a <u>copy</u> of the original Greek manuscript . . ."</i><br />
<br />
Now, I'll have to seek help in getting this information translated since I do not read or speak Greek. :-)<br />
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Again, thanks.<br />
Chaplain
Pastor Sweet,<br />
<br />
Thank you for your prompt response. I suspected that we would not have access to the original copy of the Greek manuscript which is why I asked to see a "copy."<br />
<br />
<i>"I am merely asking for access, if available, to a <u>copy</u> of the original Greek manuscript . . ."</i><br />
<br />
Now, I'll have to seek help in getting this information translated since I do not read or speak Greek. :-)<br />
<br />
Again, thanks.<br />
Chaplain tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-05:916966:Comment:11691282010-01-05T22:08:38.848ZPastor Rodrick Sweet,ThMhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RodrickSweet
<p style="text-align: left;"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/34089703?profile=original" alt=""/></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/34089703?profile=original" alt=""/></p> My dear Chaplain as you know…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-05:916966:Comment:11691192010-01-05T22:03:05.638ZPastor Rodrick Sweet,ThMhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RodrickSweet
My dear Chaplain as you know we do not have the original manuscripts, we have copies of them numbering in the 1000's or more for the (GNT). Below is a copy of such. This image comes from Center for the Study of New Testament Manucripts.
My dear Chaplain as you know we do not have the original manuscripts, we have copies of them numbering in the 1000's or more for the (GNT). Below is a copy of such. This image comes from Center for the Study of New Testament Manucripts. Elder Spiegel:
I am not at a…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-05:916966:Comment:11690292010-01-05T20:30:04.169ZChaplain Pat Harrishttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ChaplainPatHarris
Elder Spiegel:<br />
<br />
I am not at all questioning the pathway to salvation (John 14:6). I am merely asking for access, if available, to a copy of the original Greek manuscript and clarification of the Christian scholars mentioned in this post.
Elder Spiegel:<br />
<br />
I am not at all questioning the pathway to salvation (John 14:6). I am merely asking for access, if available, to a copy of the original Greek manuscript and clarification of the Christian scholars mentioned in this post. Chaplain Harris,
Zealot X is…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2010-01-05:916966:Comment:11689962010-01-05T19:25:13.451ZPastor Rodrick Sweet,ThMhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/RodrickSweet
Chaplain Harris,<br />
<br />
Zealot X is right the passage (1John 5:7) is a textual problem in that it is not in any of the manuscripts of the GNT. (Greek New Testament). But you (Zealot X) are wrong when you think that the trinity falls apart because of this passage. Not true. In Fact Dr. Daniel B. Wallace has written on this very subject. Most Bible College and Seminary students know this and understand this and other passages. Good post!
Chaplain Harris,<br />
<br />
Zealot X is right the passage (1John 5:7) is a textual problem in that it is not in any of the manuscripts of the GNT. (Greek New Testament). But you (Zealot X) are wrong when you think that the trinity falls apart because of this passage. Not true. In Fact Dr. Daniel B. Wallace has written on this very subject. Most Bible College and Seminary students know this and understand this and other passages. Good post!