The Deity Of Jesus Debate.... Who Is This Jesus?

[James Pierce]

Lets discuss....

[Della Morton]

AMEN AMEN PREACH IT BROTHER MARSHALL!!!!

[Della Morton]

YHWH = Yahweh = Jehovah = LORD

There are more, but I think you’ve got it.

Also keep the following in mind:

1. Spirit refers to a human’s spirit, but Spirit refers to God’s Spirit. It’s in the Bible that way.

2. There is only one Spirit; God has only one Spirit (Eph. 4:4-6)

Ephesians 4:4-6 (NIV) 4 There is one body and one Spirit-- just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The Bible calls the Holy Spirit the “Spirit of the LORD” (Isaiah 40:13), the Spirit of God (Gen. 1:2), and the Spirit of the Father (Matthew 10:20. Since there is only one Spirit, all these phrases must refer to the same being. The Holy Spirit is none other than Jehovah God and none other than the Father.

Isaiah 40:13 (NIV) Who has understood the mind of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor?

Genesis 1:2 (NIV) Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Genesis 1:2 (KJV) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Matthew 10:20 (NIV) for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Matthew 10:20 (KJV) For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Isaiah 40:13 (NIV) Who has understood the mind of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor?

Isaiah 40:13 (KJV) Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

So, here it goes, in a nutshell:

Spirit of the LORD = Spirit of God = Spirit of the Father = Spirit = Holy Spirit

Remember: there is only one Spirit

[Della Morton]

1. Holy Ghost = Holy Spirit = Spirit of God

2. All Scriptures in this section will be from the NIV Bible

You are about to see 9 Biblical comparisons of the Holy Ghost with the Father:

1. God the Father raised Jesus from the dead (Acts 2:24; Eph. 1:17-20), yet the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (Rom. 8:11)

Acts 2:24 (KJV) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2:24 (NIV) But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.



Ephesians 1:17-20 (KJV) 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Ephesians 1:17-20 (NIV) 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,



Romans 8:11 (KJV) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:11 (NIV) And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

2. God the Father quickens (gives life to) the dead (Rom. 4:17; 1 Tim. 6:13), yet the Spirit will do so (Rom. 8:11)

Romans 4:17 (KJV) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Romans 4:17 (NIV) As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.



1 Timothy 6:13 (KJV) I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

1 Timothy 6:13 (NIV) In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you



Romans 8:11 (KJV) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:11 (NIV) And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

3. The Spirit adopts us, which means He is our Father (Rom. 8:15-16).

Romans 8:15-16 (NIV) 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

4. The Holy Spirit fills the life of a Christian (John 14:17; Acts 4:31, yet the Spirit of the Father fills hearts (Eph. 3:14-16). It is the Father who lives in us (John 14:23)

John 14:17 (NIV) the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Acts 4:31 (NIV) After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

Ephesians 3:14-16 (NIV) 14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,

John 14:23 (NIV) Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

5. The Holy Ghost is our Comforter (John 14:26, Greek Parakletos), yet God the Father is the God of all comfort (paraklesis) who comforts parakaleo) us in all our tribulation (2 Cor. 1:3-4).

John 14:26 (NIV) But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

2 Corinthians 1:3-4 (NIV) 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.

6. The Spirit sanctifies us (1 Pet. 1:2), yet the Father sanctifies us (Jude 1).

1 Peter 1:2 (NIV) who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
1 Peter 1:2 (KJV) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Jude 1:1 (NIV) Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ:
Jude 1:1 (KJV) Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

7. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Tim. 3:16), yet the Old Testament prophets were moved by the Holy Ghost (2 Pet. 1:21)

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21 (KJV) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

8. Our bodies are temples of God (1 Cor. 3:16-17), yet they are temples of the Holy Ghost (1 Cor. 6:19).

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV) 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV) What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

9. The Spirit of the Father will give us words to say in time of persecution (Matt. 10:20), but the Holy Ghost will do the same (Mk. 13:11).

Matthew 10:20 (KJV) For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:11 (KJV) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

From all these verses of Scripture we must conclude that the Father and Holy Ghost are simply two different descriptions of the one God. The two terms describe the same being but they emphasize or highlight different aspects, roles, or functions that He possesses.

Reference:

The Oneness of God

By David K. Bernard
Trinity Doctrine, A False Teaching of Man

Do you believe IN Jesus?

If so, that’s good to hear because that brings up another questions:

Do you Believe Jesus?

Jesus taught that his Father was Superior to him.

John 14:28 (KJV) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus taught that he and his Father are ONE IN PURPOSE.

John 17:22 (KJV) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus taught us exactly who he was, in the simplest of terms.

Here is a warning first:

2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (KJV) 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Heresy is an opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs.

Does the Trinity Doctrine that originated from the Council of Nicaea - teach the same Jesus that Jesus himself taught?

The Council of Nicaea was reluctant to adopt language NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE, but ultimately DID SO after one man showed how all strictly Biblical language could also be interpreted to support his belief that there was a time when the Son (JESUS) did not exist. (Source: Wikipedia)

Why would the Council of Nicaea feel so threatened by an apposing argument about Jesus that they would go so far as to adopt language NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE?

It didn’t end there, in 589 A. D. the ‘filioque clause’ later deemed heretical by Photius of Constantinople, was added to the Nicene Creed to aid in the explanation of the saying that the Holy Spirit also comes from the Son (Jesus).

Why would man go so far as to add their own doctrine to the one Jesus taught?

James 3:14-16 explains this,

James 3:14-16 (KJV) 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Remember the word CONFUSION in James 3:16?

A search for an explanation of the Trinity through the official Assemblies of God web site produced the following:

“The Trinity” is a first-rate mystery. Augustine said hat anyone who denies the Trinity is in danger of losing his salvation, and anyone who tries to understand it is in danger of losing his mind. It is not fully explained in Scripture.

Jesus referred to Esaias prophesy, Matthew 15:9

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The ‘Trinity Doctrine’ prevents YOU from knowing who Jesus’ Father Jehovah is . . . .

John 8:54-55 (KJV) 54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

The Bible tells us to take in knowledge of both Jehovah God, and Jesus as individuals. Only by doing so, can we understand the true meaning of them being ONE in purpose, and in turn understand how to gain everlasting life.

John 17:3 (KJV) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:3 (NIV) Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 17:3 (ASV) And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

John 17:3 (YLT) and this is the life age-during, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and him whom Thou didst send--Jesus Christ;

John 17:3 (BBE) And this is eternal life: to have knowledge of you, the only true God, and of him whom you have sent, even Jesus Christ.

John 17:3 (Darby) And this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

John 17:3 (GW) This is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

John 17:3 (MaceNT) and this is life eternal, to acknowledge thee to be the only true God, and Jesus to be the Messiah whom thou hast sent.

John 17:3 (MontgomeryNT) "And this is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.

John 17:3 (WesleyNT) And this is life eternal, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

John 17:3 (WEY) And in this consists the Life of the Ages—in knowing Thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.

John 17:3 (Jewish translation) This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, AND of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

John 1:1,"En arche nv ho logos kai ho logos pros ton theon kai theos nv ho logos." In the sense of thinking Hebraically, John was not stating that Yashah is Yehwah "turning" into flesh. Rather, Yashah is the embodiement of the presence of Yehwah. He is the exact expression of Yehwah. The meaning of Logos from a Hebraic perspective means that Yashah is the divine expression of the being/nature of Yehwah. The author of Hebrews agrees with this position as is stated in Hebrews 1:1-3.

Yehwah sent His very expression to earth, and it was his expression that became flesh. This phenomon can also be understood in the context of the angel of the Lord. Let me take you back to Moses and the burning bush. Now, what did the text say of who was speaking out in the burning bush? Exodus 3:2,"Now an angel of Yehwah appeard to him in a fire of flame out of the bush, and he saw that the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not burning up." The text here says that an angel of Yehwah appeard to Moses in the bush.

The next text says in verse 4,"Now when Yehwah saw that he was drawing near to see, Yehwah called him from the bush, saying: Moses, Moses. and he said: What is it."

From the same text here, we have

1) The angel of Yehwah appearing to Moses in a flame of fire out of the bush
2) Yehwah spoke from out of the bush


Now, whats up with this? Is it the angel, or is it Yehwah? The fact is this, it was indeed the angel of Yehwah in the bush, yet this angel was actually the embodied presence of Yehwah, which is why it says Yehwah spoke from out of the bush. This is the same thing with Yashah and Yehwah. Yehwah is the embodied presence of Yehwah. Col 2:9 says the fullness of Yehwah dwells in bodily form. Hebraically, the "fullness" stands for "The presence."

Now, Isaiah 7:14, which is believed to be a direct prophecy of Yashah. But, let's go back to this chapter, and see who exactly was this chapter speaking to.

Isaiah 7:10-16,"And Yehwah spoke further to Ahaz, saying: Ask for yourself a sign of Yehwah your God, in depth or in height. And Ahaz said, “I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord. And he said, “Hear now, O house of David; is it a little thing for you to contend with men? And how do you contend against the Lord? Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and shall bring forth a son, and you shall call His name Emmanuel. Butter and honey shall He eat, before He knows either to prefer evil or choose the good. For before the child shall know good or evil, He shall refuse evil, to choose the good; and the land shall be forsaken which you are afraid of because of the two kings."

Now, let us see, according to the prophecy that Isaiah spoke to Ahaz, what Emmanuel will do, and what happens in his time:

1) Eat butter and honey
2) Before he knows good or evil, he shall refuse the evil, and choose the good
3) Land shall be forsaken because of 2 Kings
4) Assyria shall invade
5) For before the child shall know how to call his father or his mother, one shall take the power of Damascus and the spoils of Samaria before the king of the Assyrians

When did Yashah do ANY of these things? When did ANY of these events happen in Yashah's time? Where in the bible did it say Assyria even existed at Yashah's time? I will address Isaiah 9:6-8 later on.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Yeshua is the Son of God, the Second person in the Godhead of the Trinity or Triune Godhead.
the incarnation NOT reincarnation of YHWH

Yeshua was and is eternal in his person and nature as the Son of God who was with God in the beginning of creation (St. John 1:1).

Yeshua is standing now as mediator between God and man (I Timothy 2:5)

In Yeshua's living, and dying, the Apostles had to reconcile a risen Yeshua with their belief in ONE God, he had to have been YHWH's incarnation, (God with them)

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

They believe that GOD was doing one of two thing Ivy:

-speak to the Angels
-speaking to Himself as royalty would (plurality of majesty).

[James Pierce]

Ivy,

Genesis 1:26, Hebraically speaking, has nothing to do with the Christian concept of "father, son, holy spirit." Much like the word "Elohim" is pluralistic singluar word meaning "mighty one", the phrase "let us" follows this same understanding. When Yehwah said that phrase, He was clearly speaking to Himself. He was not speaking to Yashah Messiah, for Yashah did not exist in bodily form, but was simply in the mind of Yehwah. It was not the holy spirit, because we are not in the image of Him. Yehwah was speaking to Himself.

Does man have a body, soul, and spirit? Well, we must distinguish each one. Man has a body + Spirit = Soul. Man IS a soul.... he does NOT possess one.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

OK, lets strap up and get read to rumble!!!

Oneness Doctrine: I KNEW that the Oneness fellas couldn't stay away and they had to represent! LOL!! I'm glad you're here! Let me address your comments Bishop Marshall/EW. There is no "3 Gods Theology" within the Trinity. We believe in One GOD who manifests Himself in 3 separate persons. Let me try this idea for you: the Trinity is not like water (solid, liquid, & gas), the egg (shell white, & yoke), or time (past, present, & future) like many want to say it is. If we are to look at GOD and find a good description, then why not take a look at those HE made in His image: human beings. The Triune GOD can be looked at a man (body, soul, spirit). This would also talk of HIS oneness. However, consider this: we are made up basically of cells that multiplied, starting from one original cell. All the cells were the same, just arranged in a different pattern. When a child is born, it starts as a single cell. GOD can be looked at as "the Single Cell" from which all derives from.

You're asking "where does the trinity tie in?" When the single cell formed from egg and sperm split, it becames an identical twin. If it splits 3 times, then triplets, and so on. GOD was the Origin of all life. JESUS (Yahweh My Salvation) is considered to be GOD just as well, with all the FATHER's attributes, strengths, the works. The Holy Spirit (Sanctified Breathe/Wind) of GOD also hold these same attributes. We all understand that this is according to scripture! JESUS being the expressed image of GOD is as if Yahweh reached into His very own mind and pulled out Christ. You are correct for saying that JESUS is the Son according to the flesh, for the scriptures clearly say that HE is "the only BEGOTTEN Son". What does this mean? This means that we are sons created in His image; but not Christ, for Christ literally came from the essence of GOD. To better understand this, picture a clone:

-born with the same strengths
-born with the same weaknesses
-born directly from one host, with no other outside influence in the gene pool like natural pregnancy gives

Consider this within the scriptures.

John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." (Was JESUS with JESUS?)
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." (the FATHER speaking to the Son; is JESUS talking to Himself?)

The thing that brings a difference is their separate will! Clear descriptions of separate will are shown in Mark 14:36, Mark 15:34, John 12:28, and it is even shown in the OT scriptures such as 2nd Samuel 7:12-16 (a revelation of JESUS, the Son of David). The love of GOD is shown by the submission of Christ to His FATHER.

Also, there was mention of one throne in Heaven, and this is true. The misunderstanding here is that people think that JESUS is sitting on the throne forever. This is a false doctrine, for JESUS is going to give authority back to the FATHER in the end. Have we over looked the scriptures already If so, lets study and see the truth:

Daniel 7:9-10, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened......I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

1st Corinthians 15:23-28 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For He hath put all things under his feet. But when He saith all things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put all things under Him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Oneness also complain that the word Trinity does not exist in the Bible; thats a foolish statement, considering the fact that the term Oneness isn't there either.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Can you address my questions about Isaiah 7-8?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I want to address the other half of your convo concerning Isaiah 9. Now, I want you to see something that you may not be familar with, but then again you probably is. I will exegete briefly, the Septuagint's version of Isaiah 9 with connections to chapters 7-8, and the Masoretic Hebrew version of Isaiah 9.

The Septuagint is the OLDEST version of the Hebrew Tanakh. It was translated from a Hebrew that is 1000+ years older then the Masoretic Hebrew text. The Hebrew that the Septuagint was translated from did not contain any vowels that you currently see in the Masoretic Hebrew text that you read in your bible. The Hebrew that the Septuagint was translated from is more closer to the sayings of the NT than that of the Masoretic Text. In fact, over 80% of Tanakh quotes in the NT are from the Septuagint version. It looks like Greek is better to study after all, but only from a Hebraic perspective.. giving way to Hebrew culture.

The Masoretes were from the middle ages. They sought to add vowels to the Hebrew text without altering the text, but scholars know that that is certainly not true. The Hebrew of the Masoretes is certainly different than the Hebrew of the Septuagint.... 1000+ different! We will see just how different it is in the following text.

As I've proved to you earlier that Isaiah 7 is not a prophecy about Yashah, but about a child connected to Ahaz. Chapters 8 goes on with more information concerning this child, and chapter 9 shows us that this child is born.



Isaiah 9:6-7 in the Masoretic Hebrew Text:

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.Of the increase of his government and of peace
there will be no end,
on the throne of David and over his kingdom,
to establish it and to uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time forth and forevermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.


The Masoretic Hebrew text says this concerning this child that has been born to Ahaz:

1) Wonderful Counselor
2) Mighty God
3) Everlasting Father
4) Prince Of Peace

We know that this child is a mere mortal, and calling him everlasting Father in the sense that he is Yehwah himself would not make sense in the contexts of Isaiah chapters 7-9, which are all connected, because its referring to the sign that Yehwah gave to Ahaz.. A CHILD.



Isaiah 9:6-7 in the Septuagint Text:

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this

The OLDEST Tanakh version says a whole DIFFERENT story than what you see in your current Hebrew bible, that is over 1000 years younger. Let us see what the Septuagint says about this child who has been born to Ahaz:

1) Messenger Of Great Counsel
2) I Will Bring Peace Upon The Prince
3) Health To Him

Now, see the differences? The older version than the Masoretic Text says things COMPLETELY opposite than everlasting father, and mighty God. Which text will you believe. The oldest version of the Hebrew bible, or the 1000+ younger version... The Masoretic Text? Trevor, my friend, Isaiah 9:6-7 does not prove a trinity, neither is it a prophecy about Yashah, and it does not prove the deity of Yashah, because its not about Yashah as I've proved, and you have yet to answer the questions. I shall be waiting for your answers.

Shalom

[James Pierce]

To add more to it, the author of Matthew most likely added Isaiah's prophecy to the text so that it could refer to Yashah as being born of a virgin, but if you return back to the prophecy... the Hebrew word for vigin is Almah, and the Greek word is Parthenos. They both carry the meanings of "young woman", and it also means "marriagable maiden." It can mean virgin as well, but the context of Isaiah 7-9 shows us that the sign given to Ahaz was NOT a child from a virgin woman, but rather a child from a young woman, and most likely a marriagable maiden.

In the text of Matthew, we do not need the prophecy to show that Mary was a virgin, for SHE SAID IT HERSELF,"I have not known a man." Also, when was Yashah EVER called Emmanuel?????? If the author of Matthew actually understood the context of Isaiah 7-9. then he would not have added it. If Matthew himself wrote this Gospel, then I highly doubt that Isaiah 7 was in there. That was most likely added throughout the centuries/

[Della Morton]

JESUS IS.....

Advocate (1 John 2:1)
Almighty (Rev. 1:8; Mat. 28:18)
Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8; 22:13)
Amen (Rev. 3:14)
Apostle of our Profession (Heb. 3:1)
Atoning Sacrifice for our Sins (1 John 2:2)
Author of Life (Acts 3:15)
Author and Finisher of our Faith (Heb. 12:2)
Author of Salvation (Heb. 2:10)
Beginning and End (Rev. 22:13)
Blessed and only Ruler (1 Tim. 6:15)
Bread of God (John 6:33)
Bread of Life (John 6:35; 6:48)
Bridegroom (Mat. 9:15)
Chief Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20)
Chief Shepherd (1 Pet. 5:4)
Christ (1 John 2:22)
Comforter (John 14:18)
Creator (John 1:3, Col. 1:15-16)
Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
Door (John 10:7,9)
Emmanuel (Mat. 1:23)
Eternal Life (1 John 1:2; 5:20)
Eternal Salvation (Heb. 5:9)
Everlasting Covenant (Heb. 13:20)
Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6)
Faithful and True (Rev. 19:11)
Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5)
Faithful and True Witness (Rev. 3:14)
Finisher of Our Faith (Heb. 12:2)
First and Last (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13)
Firstborn From the Dead (Rev. 1:5)
Firstborn over all creation (Col. 1:15)
Father (Isaiah 9:6, John 8:24, 27, 10:30)
Gardener (John 20:15)
God (John 1:1; 20:28; Acts 20:28, Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5; 2 Pet. 1:1;1 John 5:20; etc.)
Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
Great God our Savior (Titus 2:13)
Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20)
Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; 5:23)
Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
Holy and True (Rev. 3:7)
Holy One (Acts 3:14)
Hope (1 Tim. 1:1)
Hope of Glory (Col. 1:27)
Horn of Salvation (Luke 1:69)
Husband (2 Cor. 11:2)
I Am (John 8:58)
Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4)
Immanuel (Mat. 1:23)
Immortal (1 Tim. 1:17)
Invisible (1 Tim. 1:17)
Judge of the living and the dead (Acts 10:42)
King Eternal (1 Tim. 1:17)
King of Israel (John 1:49)
King of the Jews (Mat. 27:11)
King of kings (1 Tim 6:15; Rev. 19:16)
King of the Ages (Rev. 15:3)
Lamb (Rev. 13:8)
Lamb of God (John 1:29)
Lamb Without Blemish (1 Pet. 1:19)
Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45)
Life (John 14:6; Col. 3:4)
Light of the World (John 8:12)
Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
Living One (Rev. 1:18)
Living Stone (1 Pet. 2:4)
Lord (2 Pet. 2:20)
Lord of All (Acts 10:36)
Lord of Glory (1 Cor. 2:8)
Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16)
Lord of the Sabbath (Mat. 12:8, Mark 2:28, Luke 6:5)
Lord from Heaven (1 Cor. 15:47)
Mediator (Heb. 9:15)
Messiah, Messias (Dan. 9:25, 26, John 1:41, 4:25)
Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6)
Morning Star (Rev. 22:16)
Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16)
Only Begotten Son of God (John 1:18; 1 John 4:9)
Only Wise God (1Tim. 1:17)
Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7)
Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Precious Cornerstone (1 Pet. 2:6)
Protection (2 Thess. 3:3)
Prophet (Acts 3:22)
Rabbi (Mat. 26:25)
Redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)
Resurrection and Life (John 11:25)
Righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30)
Righteous Branch (Jer. 23:5)
Righteous One (Acts 7:52; 1 John 2:1)
Rock (1 Cor. 10:4)
Root of David (Rev. 5:5; 22:16)
Ruler (Rev. 3:14)
Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (Rev. 1:5)
Savior (Eph. 5:23; Titus 1:4; 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:20)
Son of David (Luke 18:39)
Son of God (John 1:49; Heb. 4:14)
Son of Man (Mat. 8:20)
Son of the Most High God (Luke 1:32)
The One Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
The Stone the builders rejected (Acts 4:11)
True Bread (John 6:32)
True Light (John 1:9)
True Vine (John 15:1)
Truth (John 1:14; 14:6)
Way (John 14:6)
Wisdom of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
Word (John 1:1)
Word of God (Rev. 19:13)