"THE GOD WHO WASN'T THERE"/ The Theory That Jesus Christ Never Existed.

I would like to say first, Christianity is like many other religions, Christianity is a religion of faith. How can you challenge ones spiritual faith, and for those that don't go of faith and need more scientific proof that God exist 2Emc =∆ c2 proves not even science can discount God exist.

But the question at hand is not whether God exist, the question at hand is whether or not The Messiah, The Holy Spirit Jesus Christ ever exist.

The reason I bring up this matter, I like looking at documentary film online, and as I was looking, I came across a documentary called "THE GOD WHO WASN'T THERE" it's a documentary that explores the theory that Jesus Christ never existed. It's now on DVD. http://www.thegodmovie.com/press.php
and also check https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73_IjNPmIEI

Now, I don't know what to make of this DVD because I haven't seen it. I do know this topic have been debated among many religionists and archaeologists & historians and theologians for centuries. I do know, many people feel that Homer's Iliiad is the best evidence, some say The Book of Mormon is the best evidence and there are many that challenge the Book of Mormon as MISTAKES, ERROR, AND FRAUD other proof is a Roman historians named Josephus who mentioned Jesus existence, but many feel Josephus references proved to have been a late Christian interpolation. Many feel jewish men that wrote the bible knew about the prophises of the jewish law and they all wanted out from under roman rule. Revolution in the late 18th century who first suggested that Jesus was a mythical character. 1 Bruno Bauer, a mid-19th century German theologian agreed. In part of his 4 volume set "Critique of the Gospels and History of Their Origin," he claimed that Jesus did not exist. A subsequent next major skeptic was the English theologian John M. Robertson who wrote two books in the very early 20th century. G.A. Wells, a former professor of German at the University of London was one of the most prominent. He wrote a series of five books on this topic, arguing that Paul and other 1st century Christian leaders believed that Jesus had lived in their distant past, perhaps in the 2nd or 3rd century BCE. Michael Martin discussed Jesus' existence in his 1991 book: "The case against Christianity," He is a professor of philosophy from Boston University who examined the major beliefs of Christianity. He concluded that there was insufficient evidence to conclude that Jesus existed. The Gospel of the Q: This is believed by many theologians to be a collection of sayings, "which included moral teachings, prophetic admonitions and controversy stories, plus a few miracles and anecdotes." These had been transmitted orally and are generally believed to have been first written down by his followers circa 50 CE, about two decades after his execution by the Roman occupying army. Many theologians believe that the Gospel of Q was used extensively by the authors of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. The latter gospels have many passages that are identical word-for-word -- or almost so. Yet there is no indication that the two authors communicated with each other or even knew each other. This provides a strong case for Q having existing as a written document. Theologians have attempted to reconstruct Q from the shared passages in Matthew and Luke.

Unfortunately, the gospel does not include any dates for Jesus' life, or any references that can be tied to known events. If Jesus had been executed circa 30 CE, then many who saw and heard him preach would still have been alive and could have verified that the gospel was accurate. But a case can be made that the gospel was assembled out of sayings from the 1st or 2nd century BCE. Paul wrote that he received personal revelations directly from Jesus, presumably in the form of visions. Paul mentioned that a fellow Christian, James, the brother of Jesus, headed up the Jerusalem Church. That would be a strong indicator that Jesus had lived in the early 1st century CE. The Gnostics: The early Christian movement was composed of Gnostic Christians, Jewish Christians, and Pauline Christians. Gnostics in particular maintained that God could never take human form. Some denied Jesus' existence as a historical person. Cornelius Tacitus: He was a Roman historian who lived from 55 to 120 CE and wrote a book Annals, circa 112 CE. McDowell and Stewart accept his writings as a strong indicator of Jesus' existence in the early 1st century CE. Some theologians and historians believe that many of the details of Jesus' life were "borrowed" from a competing, contemporary religion, Mithraism. The religion was founded in Persia before the birth of Christianity. Mithra was a fictional character who was worshipped as a Good Shepherd, the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, and the Messiah. Christian and non-Christian historians of Jesus’ day testified to his existence and miracles. Among those who testified are: Roman historians Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Syrian Mara bar Serapion and Josephus Flavius, the leading Jewish historian of that time, who said in his book Jewish Antiquities:

“Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principle men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and 10,000 other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

In 06' an Italian judge ordered a priest to appear in court to prove that Jesus Christ existed.
Heres the article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/european_football/a... .

Yours truly,
Anthony Smith

P.S.
Now, ask yourself do your spiritual faith exist?
Do you have faith in the Holy Spirit Jesus Christ?
If your faith in Christ exist, than Christ exist, that's all the proof you need, your proof is a mathematic formula equation that will never have to be answered because your soul is the solution.

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Elijah,

So true
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16)

Now I know that this does not cancel out feast days, however it does admonish ones to not have a judgmental spirit.

The truth is, there are on-going judgmental attitudes in the body of Christ about meats, drinks, holydays and Sabbath observance.

Those who don't observe such things tend to reflect on those who do as "legalists" (strict adherents to the Law). which I really don't have a problem with, until ones state I'm lost if I don't observe them or who view me as unrighteous or at best, second-class citizen of the Kingdom.

Simply "those who do judge those who don't and those who don't judge those who do" and on it goes.

Yet the Christ-like attitude is "Judge not" (Mt. 7:1). The Apostle Paul gave similar advice to the church in Rome.
Praise the Lord, Evangelist...

First of all, let me say I do apologize if the contents of my message earlier, sounded offensive or offended you because the Lord knows that was NOT my intention. I am simply grieved in my spirit because many dont understand the power AND NOT THE RELIGIOSITY of the Lord's Sabbath day and His holy days He gave us in the Old Testament that commemorate His character, His acts of deliverance and His mighty works.. There is power in the observance of these days because the Lord established them.. He didnt establish Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day, St. Patricks Day and all of these other worldly holidays that the Catholic Church brought to the Lord's Church.. I was simply mentioning of the fact, that when you do your research, you will see how things were changed; why do you think the Jews are so blessed the way they are? NOT just because they are Jews, but because they understand the importance of remembering and honoring the Lord's holy days He set aside every other day of holiness He commands us to give to Him.. and I do know that SOME of the Jews dont recognize Jesus as being God, and being the Son of God according to the flesh.. but there are some and there are things they know and have done throughout generations that keeps the favor of the Lord on their life in a greater measure, and likewise there are things that we can share with them that will be a blessing to them... but that's all I was saying... there was no offense meant woman of God..

-Blessings
Pastor E
No offense taken, I'm learning too! Guys I want you to know (and I'm working on it daily) I find that evidently I come across strongly to ones, on a keyboard. Please know that I am not trying to be offensive to anyone, or that I take offense easily.

Just trying to grow, OK?

Blessings as well Pastor
Brother Elijah Marshall,

God's word forbids us to mix law and Grace.

" 36He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. 37And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.' "

Luke 5:36-39

Please, do not pour new wine into old wineskins.

Please do not do that!

The law of Moses is not Christians' standard of living today. Christ forever made us free from all that.


"18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. 20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
"The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: 'You are a priest forever.' "[a] 22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant. 23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[b] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them".

Hebrews 7:18-25

Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant, so do not pour new wine into old wineskins.

May God enlighten you!

Blessings,

Brother Germain
Amen... and also let me add thisto Brother German.. I wasnt mixing in the law and grace but I would have you know that the Bible is not speaking of the commandments of God given in Exodus, when it says we are not under the law, but under grace... For if that were the case, we could do whatever we wanted to do, and yet be saved and holy people.. it was speaking of the sacrificial and ritualistic law that we are no longer under; thanks to the precious blood of Christ... you have to know what that word law means..

-God bless
wow, Germain's true Syncretistic colors are coming out
Brother Pierce,

Please keep quiet for I'm working...

I'm here on the B.P.N. to teach you the truth, to show you the way and that way is JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH.

Indeed, we all are going to be judged according to the law of Christ: the law of the faith, the truth of the faith.

Christ Himself is the single Judge.

The standard which will be used is the law of Christ. Amen!

Some one has said:

“…The old covenant had a set of laws.
2. The law required the preist to perform daily and yearly sacrifices/works.
3. The law was only a shadow of things to come.
4. When Christ came He became a better sacrifice and He too did it only
ONCE!
5. The Law of killing bulls and goats was against us and contrary to us
because they could not take away our sins.
6. The moment Christ died the veil of the temple was torn in two.
7. Christ nailed the Law of ANIMAL SACRIFICE to His cross!!!….This is just TOO simple. NO!!!! The 'works of the law' (Animal sacrifice) was NOT needed after Jesus arrived. It was just a schoolmaster, or as Paul said in Heb. 'a shadow of things to come', and after that faith came (Jesus), we were no longer under a schoolmaster, Animal Sacrifice!!!!

Brother, I thank you for your comment. I also believe that Christ nailed the Law of ANIMAL SACRIFICE to His cross. I do believe!


Brother Elijah Marshall also said:

“Amen... and also let me add thisto Brother German.. I wasnt mixing in the law and grace but I would have you know that the Bible is not speaking of the commandments of God given in Exodus, when it says we are not under the law, but under grace... For if that were the case, we could do whatever we wanted to do, and yet be saved and holy people.. it was speaking of the sacrificial and ritualistic law that we are no longer under; thanks to the precious blood of Christ... you have to know what that word law means..”


However you have not answered my questions yet. Please answer them now!

Indeed the Bible says that Jesus Christ came not to abolish but to fulfil Old Testament law (Matthew 5:17).

The fulfilment of the Law by Jesus Christ, what does it mean?

I also know that the Old Testament Law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies:

“For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, "Do not commit adultery,"also said, "Do not murder."If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

James 2:10-13

Let us notice that Brother James was not speaking of the sacrificial and ritualistic law only here, but he was speaking about the whole Law, the Torah.

Indeed, “to commit adultery” or to “murder”, can not be called sacrificial and ritualistic laws.

Now, my second question is as follows:

If Christ fulfilled some of that law, such as the sacrificial system, didn’t He fulfilled all of it?

Indeed, Jesus Christ said:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart”.

Matthew 5:27-28

Bother, the obsolete Law, namely the Torah says: “Do not commit adultery”

But the new Law of Jesus that Christians should follow is: “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart”

Here, don’t you see Jesus fulfilling the Law concerning the adultery (Exodus 20: 14)?

Isn’t the new Law of Jesus Christ better than the old one?

Jesus Christ did not come to abolish but to fulfil or to perfect the Old Testament law as a UNIT.

Do you agree with me?

It is not about the sacrificial and ritualistic laws only, but it is about all the law of Moses, the Torah.

If the Bible is your absolute, then say AMEN to that!

Let us see an other example:

“Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" 4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" 8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Matthew 19:3-9

Bother, the obsolete Law, namely the Torah says:

“…a man can give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away…”

But the new Law of Jesus that Christians should follow is:

“…a man should not divorce his wife for any and every reason for anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery”

Here, don’t you see Jesus fulfilling the Law concerning the marriage?

Isn’t the new Law of Jesus Christ better than the old one?

Jesus Christ did not come to abolish but to fulfil or to perfect the Old Testament law as a UNIT.

Do you agree with me?

It is not about the sacrificial and ritualistic laws only, but it is about all the law of Moses, the Torah.

If the Bible is your absolute, then say AMEN to that!

In the same way, Jesus Christ has perfected the Law on the love of God (Exodus 20:2-7, Matthew 22:36-37),

He has also perfected the Law on the love of our neighbour (Exodus 20: 12-17; Matthew 22:39, Matthew 5:21-26, Matthew 5:43-48, John 8: 1-11)

So, to say that the Old Testament Law applies to Christians today is incorrect.

The Old Testament Law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

You must also know this:

« For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”

John 1:17

THE LAW OF MOSES HERE IS THE TORAH.

The commands of Jesus Christ are not burdensome(1 John 5:3-5).

Gentile believers live under the GRACE and not according to the Torah.

The grace accompanies the believer during his life (1 Corinthians 15:10, 2 Corinthians 12:9) and He can be strengthened in it :

“You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.”

2 Timothy 2: 1

Such a believer who walks in the grace of Jesus-Christ cannot walk any more according to the law(the Talmud or the Torah).

But what kind of law am I talking about here?

I’m talking about the law in the sense of principle of works (with allusion to the Mosaic Law) which is in contrast with the grace (Romans 2: 12-29, Romans 3: 19-31).

Thus, the gentile believers need not observe the Sabbath and the ritual ceremonies prescribed by Moses.

When John said that: “Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4)”, he did not refer to the customs taught by Moses (Acts 15: 1-21).

Consequently, the non-observance of the Sabbath by a gentile believer could not constitute the breaking of the law about which John spoke.

John referred to the law of the faith, to the truth of the faith:

“Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith ».

Romans 3:27

“If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.”

1 Timothy 4:6

This law can never be abolished, since the Word of God can not be abolished.

But what is the faith like?

« Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”

Romans 10:17

Any thing will pass but the word of God will not pass. Ritual laws prescribed by Moses are no longer in force for the gentile believers. They are abolished for those who live under the grace. But the law of the faith which takes its source in the Word of Christ will never be abolished.

“Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.”

Jude 1:3

Gentile believers live under the GRACE.

Hebrew Israelites keep the Sabbath because they still live under the LAW.

There are two different dispensations. Paul didn’t destroy THE LAW OF GOD though.

But he said that “no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin”.

He said that we “ all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus”

He said that “a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.”

This doesn’t mean that we nullify the LAW OF GOD by this faith.

Please listen carefully to Paul:

“Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin”.

Righteousness Through Faith

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. »

Romans 3:19-31

Hebrew Israelites still live UNDER THE LAW and do observe the Sabbath (whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law).

But the gentiles are free in Jesus-Christ, they live BY GRACE and they are justified BY FAITH.

Through the Grace God justifies freely the sinner who repents (Romans 2:24-25).

Israelites could not be justified by the Law of Moses. Today, gentile believers can not also be justified by the Law of Moses. This is the reason why Jesus Christ has come.

Jesus Christ came not to abolish but to fulfil or to perfect the Old Testament law as a UNIT (Matthew 5:17).

Verily, today, Yahweh’s perfect law is LOVE:

“And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity”.

Colossians 3: 14

In place of the Old Testament law, gentile believers are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind … and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39).

If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us, “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament Law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament Law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament Law can be a good “guidepost” for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor.

At the same time, to say that the Old Testament Law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament Law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament Law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them.

The purpose of the Old Testament Law is to point people to their need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament Law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

Jesus Christ came not to abolish but to fulfil all the Law of Moses, NAMELY THE TORAH.

Wasn’t the new law of Christ better than the former law?

“Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ”.

Galatians 6:2

If a Christian fulfils the law of Christ(the new convenant) according to which we must not look at a woman lustfully for fear of committing adultery with her in our heart, will that Christian be considered lawless or an evil doer before Jesus according to Mathew 7: 21-23?

The lawless one, THE EVIL DOER, isn’t it the one who still get stuck on the former law, the first one which has been made obsolete and aging will soon disappear (Hebrews 8:13)?

Brothers and sisters in Christ, the message of our Lord Jesus is very clear:

“For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven"'.

Matthew 5:20

"...unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven"

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Revelation 3:22

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

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