What has happened to the Body of Christ!

[Minister Danny Carson]

Why does the Body of Christ Has Pulpit Pimps, Ministry Whores and has members Prostitute there Gifts.

Ezekiel 16:33 Says (Every prostitute receives a fee, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors.)

[Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge]

The Auto manufacturing really was a figure of speech; the idea is behind the thought is instead of being slaves to the economy we really can be wiser stewards of the economy that he has blessed us with. Please do not get me wrong I, in no way am suggesting that we act in a manner repugnant to scripture, nor am I suggesting that we ignor the needs of the poor- but this is simple common sense; It is unreasonable to expect the church to sustain itself on a foundation that is crumbling a the very root.

The Church is made of people and people and starving people equal starving churches...the church of old were farmers, fisherman, carpenters, tent makers, etc. Who said we were supposed to be poor, hungery and out of doors in order to love Jesus? Jesus did not say come onto me all ye that labor and I will give you greater burdens - the Gospel was not preached to the poor in order to make them more poor! that...makes no sense...and I'm sorry buying a house or a car that you have no ablity to pay or is not a blessing!!!!! it is stupid! building a business that will allow you to provide for yourself and others is basic biblical principal! so yes give to the poor but by all means sow something, do something.


God Bless you

[newview]

"...I'm sorry buying a house or a car that you have no ablity to pay or is not a blessing!!!!!..."

You are preaching to the choir.

"...Jesus did not say come onto me all ye that labor and I will give you greater burdens - the Gospel was not preached to the poor in order to make them more poor! that...makes no sense..."

Absolutely - thats why He blessed some (in this case -US) to be rich and to share it with those that are in need. God told us that 'the poor we would always have with us' - ALWAYS ALWAYS.
I cant see saving up to build some economic empire. Not the Church. They are to spread the gospel - spread the gospel - spread the gospel...and take care of the Body.
Dont get me wrong - as an individual knock yourself out - the saints must work to eat and we are not to be lazy, so build build build that factory. But it is not the mission of the Church to go around starting banks or businesses in the name of being good stewards...The only business of the church is to invest in spreading the gospel and relieve those in need ---> not form corporations.

I may be wrong but thats how I understand the scriptures.

[Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge]

I know alot of people have that same mis-understanding - time will not allow me to go into great detail,but that teaching is about 500 years...The idea is "keep the Christians away from the money and all is well...if we (and we have) accept that way of thinking as Gospel than we have what we have today; if what we have today is what we are supposed to have than the Church should stop all fund raising efforts, sell no more bean pies (oops that's the muslim) sweat potato pies, and chicken dinners - no more tickets or anything.

We should just give them all away and we should stop wearing robes because they cost a lot of money, we should not have bank accounts or savings accounts because we might accidentally get some interest and we all know that money is evil- in fact we should just do away with all this "stuff" roam the earth naked and carry bibles - oh but the bibles cost money so maybe we should just rolm the earth and teach what we remember the bible saying and hey since eating cost money than when we starve to death someone else will take up the lack???

do you see how when we take scripture out of context and run to the extreme we then stifle our own spiritual growth and development individually an as a Church?

The notion that the Church the individual and the "Body" is some how separate and distict lies at thevery base of the confusion in the area business. We are the Church and the Church is the Body of Christ without the individual there is no Church - The idea that the Body only has one function has plagued the Church from its inception hence the elaberation or deliniation by Paul to the Church at Corinth regarding the many functions of the Body - i.e. if the Body only had eyes wherewith he hear? if the Body only hear with what would he see? the body is one but the parts are many- the Body has hands to work, but the feet takes him there- the legs move the feet but the head gives direction and the back side...well stop taking out your trash for a few days and see what your nose is for..lol

The lack of knowledge is the seat of destruction of the people...You have demonstrated the basic teaching that has been around for a very long time - think about it when ever God blesses a Church to have a lot of money what do we say oh look out he's one of those "Prosperity guys" oooh run away...think about it where do we run too...unsaved national bank filling out a loan application praying that we get a loan...that makes no sence -

look at this last crisis - did you know that the Gov. forced banks to give loans to urban areas in order to help them buy houses...do you know the stoy that is not being told - the Gov. did not tell them to what interest rate to charge them so the big banks charged them obsene rates of interest even if they had good credit good jobs and down payment they still charged them double digit two year adjustable rates- that is insane- but where else were the people to go?

Nehemiah saw the same thing happen in his time - that's why he instructed to lenders to only charge one percent and return the difference back to the people.

The only reason why Jesus threw out the money changers is because they were ripping off the poor and giving difference to the rich and sadly since you could not do your alms unless you used "temple" money - they were the only game in town..if you ever what to make God angry...mess over the poor! That dos not mean that God wants his body live in poverty -

what kind of advertisement would that be - hurry up and come over to my church - my Pastor is teaching a 3 part series on how to be more poor than you've ever dreamed of, and as treat how to obey God and stay poor...wow oooh - really we need to stop being hypocrites about money.

Again you can think what you like if your goal is to teach your church to be as poor as possible, cool...just send all of your money, every dime, (don't even buy a sandwich) over here and we can put it to great use! just put up a sign (will work for food) LOL


See you later

[newview]

Its not the Church's mission.
Thats not what the commission was given by the one who shed His blood for us.
But I see that you have a yearning to help the saints be more savvy when it comes to their finances ---> I think you can help them build any kind of business (legal) that they could. But thats as individuals, and it would not be sin.
The church on the other hand, needs to stay away from 'these' endevours like the plague.

And who goes around teaching the saints to come learn about how to be more poor?

[Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge]

I have a yearing for God's people to think bigger! I have a yearning for God's peole to know the truth! I have a yearning for God's people to know that they are the head and not the tail! I have a yearing for God's people to get up from the alter of self pity and woe is me and be counted as men and women of God and say to the mountain be thou removed" and the mountain moves! I have a yearning to see God's people blessed in every aspect of their lives! I don't mine the Pastor wearing the 500.00 suite but my God, I want to see the members able to do the same thing (AND I DON'T ME A FINANCED SUITE!)

It sickens me to see God's faithful people standing in the welffare line, the faithful in the unemployement line, the faithful in the food line, and the faithful paying rates so high that they can never get ahead...and all we as Pastors - feeders of the flock of God, Gaurdians of the sheep can say is oh, its not the Churches job...to create jobs; tell me then who's Job is it? we don't say that when its offering time! no no then the money all of something becomes a good thing!!! we want that hey pay tithes on your welfare checks, give and shall be given, oh my you'll get a blessing if you just gime this and gimme that! give me a break!

how dare we get so hypocrtical that we one the hand sell tickets to the church play, reduce the church to a street corner hustle and then condemn those of us who advocate ownership of enterprise; "big business" - Read the Bible -

if the you don't plant anything how do you expect to reap? if you do nothing you get nothing! if you have no vision bigger than where you are you will never get to where you're not!

(Newview) If you're happy with the status of the people of God and everything is fine in your eye, you see nothing needs to change then why are you here? what is your solution? what plan are you an advocate for? you don't have to agree with mine, just put yours on the table.

The Church sells everything and sadly even its pulpit! That's our great commission?

[Minister Danny Carson]

Timothy 6:10 (New International Version)
10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

[Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge]

who's talking about "loving" money???

[newview]

Brother Tarik - I wanted to share with you what a wise preacher speaking to pastors said and thought it was apropos for this conversation:

***********************************************************************************************************

God does not prosper a mans business so that man can move from a Buick to a BMW. God prospers a business so that hundreds of unreached peoples can be reached with the gospel. He prospers a business so that 20% of the world's populations can move a step back from starvation.

Brothers many of our people have barely begun to grasp this. Too many are more shaped by the consumer culture than by the economics of Christ. They still oprate under the simple rule: If you earned it, you deserve it. Its yours; use it for your own material comfort.

They have been taken by the half-truth that says we glorify God with money by enjoying thankfull all luxuris he enables us to buy. The true half is this: we should give thanks for every good thing God gives us. That does glorify Him. The false half is the subtle iplication that God can be glorified in this way by every decent purchase we make...

God is not glorified when we keep for ourselves (no matter how thankfully) what we ought to be using to alleviate the misery (others).

The evidence that many of our people are not rich toward God is how little they give and how much they own. Over the years God has prospered them. And by an almost irresistable law of consumer culture they have bought bigger (and more) houses, new (and more) cars, fancier (and more) clothes, and all manner of trinkets and gadgets and containers and devices and equipment to make life more fun.

Very few of our people have said to themselves at a level of joyful wartime simplicity and use the rest of what we earn to alleviate misery. But surely that is what Jesus wants. I do not see how we can read the New Testament, then look at two billion unevangelized people, and still build another barn for ourselves. We can only justify the exorbitance of our lifestyle by ignoring the lostness of the unreached and misery of the poor.

Brothers, we are leaders, and the burden of change lies most heavily on us. The place to start is in our own lives. Is it the thrill of your own life to live in such a sacrificial way that all can see that God is your treasure and not things?...

What should a pastor say to his people concerning the purchase and ownership of two homes in a world where 24,000 people starve to death everyday and mission agencies cannot penetrate unreached peoples for lack of funds?

First you want to quote Amos 3:15:
"And I will strike the winter house with the summer house: and the houses of ivory shall perish, and and the great houses shall have an end, saith the LORD." Then you may read: "Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none;"...

**********************************************************************************************************
To me Brother Tarik, this might be a wake up call to the church to restructure our lives and make it a point to be rich toward God.

[Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge]

This is the point I've been making all along! I would even take it a step further...not only should we share with those that have none; but more so; we should share the wisdom to those that have none that they my earn and have to help someone else.

Peace and blessins Bro.

[Minister Danny Carson]

I am not saying that we do not need money to help move our ministry becasue that what God has told the body of Christ to do, but when you start to pimp the church for self growth that another story.

[Tarik Al-Hadi Hodge]

I agree with that 100%; We all agree that "Pimping the Church" for any reason is a sin and abomination before God!

I am looking for solutions to problems that I and other Pastors see everyday! After our people get saved; they need jobs, they have families, they're barley getting by - and forming 100.00 line a 50.00 line or any kind of line or selling them a napkin, oil a jar of honey or any other (stupid) item is not going to do it...So I am interested in this conversation from the stand point of getting real (rubber meets the road) ideas going forward.

What I am not interested in is listening to hypocritical statements about the church not getting involved in commerce - because the Church has been raising money since 68 A.D.

[Minister Danny Carson]

I agree 100%