The following selected verses are for reference to the topic under discussion.

1Co 12:1  Now, concerning what you wrote about the gifts from the Holy Spirit. I want you to know the truth about them, my friends.
1Co 12:2  You know that while you were still heathen, you were led astray in many ways to the worship of lifeless idols.
1Co 12:3  I want you to know that no one who is led by God's Spirit can say "A curse on Jesus!" and no one can confess "Jesus is Lord," without being guided by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4  There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them.
1Co 12:5  There are different ways of serving, but the same Lord is served.
1Co 12:6  There are different abilities to perform service, but the same God gives ability to all for their particular service.
1Co 12:7  The Spirit's presence is shown in some way in each person for the good of all.

1Co 12:24  which the more beautiful parts do not need. God himself has put the body together in such a way as to give greater honor to those parts that need it.

1Co 12:25  And so there is no division in the body, but all its different parts have the same concern for one another.

1Co 12:28  In the church God has put all in place: in the first place apostles, in the second place prophets, and in the third place teachers; then those who perform miracles, followed by those who are given the power to heal or to help others or to direct them or to speak in strange tongues.
1Co 12:29  They are not all apostles or prophets or teachers. Not everyone has the power to work miracles
1Co 12:30  or to heal diseases or to speak in strange tongues or to explain what is said.
1Co 12:31  Set your hearts, then, on the more important gifts. Best of all, however, is the following way.

1Co 13:8  Love is eternal. There are inspired messages, but they are temporary; there are gifts of speaking in strange tongues, but they will cease; there is knowledge, but it will pass.
1Co 13:9  For our gifts of knowledge and of inspired messages are only partial;
1Co 13:10  but when what is perfect comes, then what is partial will disappear.

1Co 13:13  Meanwhile these three remain: faith, hope, and love; and the greatest of these is love.

As I look around this site I wonder why all the titles??
The early institutional church saw no need for nameing people or their roles but it seems my people have taken it to the extreme and I wonder why?

Does it add to anyone, or does the person welding the title feel "bigger".  The plethora of prophets and the female corollaries who do not seem to fit the biblical image.  Jesus never called himself a healer he simply prayed for  those in need that his Father would heal them, Jesus the man was not pretentious and self promoting.

I introduce myself to virtually everyone with only my name even when wearing my collar.  That in itself is identification enough.

I am asked are you a priest, preacher, pastor, minister, or what ever is comfortable to the questioner.  And I answer, yes. 
I used to explain what each title meant to my position now I just answer yes and do my best to show out for Jesus.

I will be interested to hear from persons who have assumed the non traditional titles as ways of identifying themselves as to why they did.

How do the titles improve what they do.

God talks to prophets to tell his people to do something or not do something at least that is the role of those in the bible.

God works through healers to pass on healing, to change the physical conditions of those who are touched, prayed for and so on.  These in the gospels are never chance occurrences, Jesus prayed the physical condition changed, right then, on the spot.  It never took a second visit and never for money.

I do not deny gifts of the spirit, I am a teacher, I teach, any thing.
It is a gift not a title, it is a suffix and not a prefix. 

What I have is to add to and draw the body together.
The body is so fractured, separated, and disjointed how do the titles that are worn draw us together?

And the greatest of these is love.

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I would like to contribute this video response to this discussion. I pray that it helps someone. BLESSINGS!

Sister Stacey,

How did you come by the title 'Apostle'?
Are you saying you went to school to become an apostle?
How long is the training and what school did you attend that gives out 'apostle' degrees/licenses?
Before Apostle Woods answers those questions, I would like to ask you these questions:

- A female who has little regard for females in Ministry should not be so ready to set themselves to question (challenge is more like it because you don't accept 9 outta 10 of the answers given) other females who feel that they are fulfilling their GOD-given mandate within this Great Commission. You have accepted the "Martha-type" of calling, which isn't bad at all. For those who see this as their life, then to each is their own. However, don't always be so ready to step up and out there to cry about "Mary".

Why do you feel the need to question "Mary" or cry to CHRIST about "Mary not being in her place helping at home like you"?

- Are you aware of the training that an Apostle is to receive? Are you aware of the length of time a person is to be under such a training, if there is any at all? How often have you come across Apostles or how long have you served under/with an Apostolic Ministry?

These questions are presented just as they seem to be: challenges. Challenges not in the negative sense however. I am challenging the air of doctrine that that you hold so dearly to that claims that a woman's place is in the kitchen. CHRIST loves a homemaker, but HE also commanded for the Great Commission to be fulfilled. Truth be told, it would go with a GREATER efficiency if women joined men in this workforce side-by-side.
I am not clear about what you are asking.

I would like to respond but I do not believe I said anything against women.
Rev, this question wasn't directed towards you.
Me thinketh the gentleman doeth protest too much :-)

I not once said anything about this person's gender -----> thus - you have only brought it up to bolster a defense of ones own calling---> and yet, side track the issue

So I dont know what you are talking about with this 'Mary' and 'Martha' and 'women vs men' thingy.

;-) Now lets move on. Maybe you know the answer to my questions:

*How does one come by the title 'Apostle'?
*Do people attend school to become a apostles?
*How long is the training and what school would one attend that gives out 'apostle' degrees/licenses?
ABSOLUTELY DYNAMIC!!! It was so good that I don't think that I have to teach this anymore, I'll just post your clip!! LOL!!!!!!!!

But seriously, to back up what the Bible's writers stated concerning themselves, lets go to them individually:

1st Samuel 9:18-19 "Then Saul drew near to Samuel in the gate, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer's house is. And Samuel answered Saul, and said, I am the Seer....."

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the Priest...."

Habakkuk 1:1 "The burden which Habakkuk the prophet did see."

Haggai 1:1 "In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech the High Priest, saying......"

Zechariah 1:1 "In the eighth month, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying...."

John 4:25-26 "The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when He is come, he will tell us all things. JESUS saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am He."

Romans 1:1 "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an Apostle....."

1st Corinthians 1:1 "Paul called to be an Apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God,....."

Galatians 1:1 "Paul, an Apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)"

1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an Apostle of Jesus Christ,........."

2 John 1:1 "(Apostle John) The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;"

All of these Apostles and Prophets used their titles without restraint, and without a false dominance over people. What on Earth is the problem with people today using the title if GOD gave them the position?
That is what happens when you do not know the language or will not at least refer to a good dictionary like Strong's.
The words you claim as titles are not titles but descriptions of activities it what they are doing not who they are, study to show.........
SEMANTICS Reverend Z.!! Your office is both who you are and what you do.

-You are a Lawyer because you "presently practice law"
-You're the Presiding Prelate of a ministry because you're "presently presiding"
-You're a Judge because you "preside in the office of Judge".

Interestingly enough, the office you work in, in GOD's eyes, goes right along with who you are. They are one and the same, impossible to separate. Your very salvation is literally entangled with your calling. Apostle Paul understood this perfectly well:

Titus 1:1-3 "Paul, a Servant of God, and an Apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; in hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; but hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;"

He said he's an Apostle "according to the faith of GOD's elect". Its literally saying I'm an Apostle because I'm saved." Such a surety of one's official ministry calling places their calling right along with their salvation. Such a faith says "I seen the risen LORD. I know I'm an apostle. If I'm not an Apostle, then count me as not being saved then also, because this is my very purpose of breathing."

The problem with saints today is that they will not die for their calling. This is so simply because they barely have the faith to live the calling that GOD ordained for them. Its just a job now for them, a title to toss to and fro.

You can take the Strong's and study such a faith once delivered unto the saints, Sir.
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Reply by Pastor Richard Groover on January 30, 2010 at 5:52pm
That was too tuff'.
I will be sure not to call you late for dinner.

I will probably niot get a better answer to my question or a more enjoyable presentation.


There is always a but...................

While I wholly acccept 905 of what you said I do have some exceptions.

I look at the bible and I see those who are presented as prophets. They are not self appointed. They are not fortune teller or future prognosticators. All of the biblical prophets ( Hebrew- an inspired speaker and in the Greek a simillar meaning, also poet) do one thing and that is "Thus saith the Lord......" Everyone of them did not ask for the task, most ran, hid and denied this so-called gift as Paul expressed it, Paul, not Jesus.
Apostles (delegates or ambassadors) are sent out, well that is everyone preforming any ministry for Jesus. It is not a special title, at least it was not in the time of Jesus or Paul.
Ministry is translated as service in English. All who serve are ministers. again it is not a special title and those of us who have been trained, studied, maybe ordained, know that our service is ministry (the Greek diakonia (decon or servant)).

The words seemed to have taken on different meanings than was originally intended in the original languages.
That is the jist of my question. Do those who have named themselves know what they are actually calling themselves.
Elder, Deacon, Bishop these are NT titles at least the only ones I can find for the then non institutional church.

Do people calling themselves by these titles feel it elevates them? I know, because you said so, that is not how you feel and keep on working for Jesus, be blessed.

But is that true of others?
Technically speaking, sir (and with no disrespect intended) aren't you holding the title of Reverend? This title was born from the womb of the very mentality you are speaking of within this blog forum.........

Which would seem a bit more from the "pride pool", one who claims their GOD-given office of Apostle, or Prophet, or Pastor, or one who claims their "Roman Catholic invented" title of "Reverend", "Most Reverend", or "Right Reverend"?

Not a shot at you, but just a thought.......


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