The following selected verses are for reference to the topic under discussion.

1Co 12:1  Now, concerning what you wrote about the gifts from the Holy Spirit. I want you to know the truth about them, my friends.
1Co 12:2  You know that while you were still heathen, you were led astray in many ways to the worship of lifeless idols.
1Co 12:3  I want you to know that no one who is led by God's Spirit can say "A curse on Jesus!" and no one can confess "Jesus is Lord," without being guided by the Holy Spirit.
1Co 12:4  There are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them.
1Co 12:5  There are different ways of serving, but the same Lord is served.
1Co 12:6  There are different abilities to perform service, but the same God gives ability to all for their particular service.
1Co 12:7  The Spirit's presence is shown in some way in each person for the good of all.

1Co 12:24  which the more beautiful parts do not need. God himself has put the body together in such a way as to give greater honor to those parts that need it.

1Co 12:25  And so there is no division in the body, but all its different parts have the same concern for one another.

1Co 12:28  In the church God has put all in place: in the first place apostles, in the second place prophets, and in the third place teachers; then those who perform miracles, followed by those who are given the power to heal or to help others or to direct them or to speak in strange tongues.
1Co 12:29  They are not all apostles or prophets or teachers. Not everyone has the power to work miracles
1Co 12:30  or to heal diseases or to speak in strange tongues or to explain what is said.
1Co 12:31  Set your hearts, then, on the more important gifts. Best of all, however, is the following way.

1Co 13:8  Love is eternal. There are inspired messages, but they are temporary; there are gifts of speaking in strange tongues, but they will cease; there is knowledge, but it will pass.
1Co 13:9  For our gifts of knowledge and of inspired messages are only partial;
1Co 13:10  but when what is perfect comes, then what is partial will disappear.

1Co 13:13  Meanwhile these three remain: faith, hope, and love; and the greatest of these is love.

As I look around this site I wonder why all the titles??
The early institutional church saw no need for nameing people or their roles but it seems my people have taken it to the extreme and I wonder why?

Does it add to anyone, or does the person welding the title feel "bigger".  The plethora of prophets and the female corollaries who do not seem to fit the biblical image.  Jesus never called himself a healer he simply prayed for  those in need that his Father would heal them, Jesus the man was not pretentious and self promoting.

I introduce myself to virtually everyone with only my name even when wearing my collar.  That in itself is identification enough.

I am asked are you a priest, preacher, pastor, minister, or what ever is comfortable to the questioner.  And I answer, yes. 
I used to explain what each title meant to my position now I just answer yes and do my best to show out for Jesus.

I will be interested to hear from persons who have assumed the non traditional titles as ways of identifying themselves as to why they did.

How do the titles improve what they do.

God talks to prophets to tell his people to do something or not do something at least that is the role of those in the bible.

God works through healers to pass on healing, to change the physical conditions of those who are touched, prayed for and so on.  These in the gospels are never chance occurrences, Jesus prayed the physical condition changed, right then, on the spot.  It never took a second visit and never for money.

I do not deny gifts of the spirit, I am a teacher, I teach, any thing.
It is a gift not a title, it is a suffix and not a prefix. 

What I have is to add to and draw the body together.
The body is so fractured, separated, and disjointed how do the titles that are worn draw us together?

And the greatest of these is love.

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Titus 1:10-11 (King James Version)

10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

but the lord is a revealer

My brothers and sisters. I read all the threads and I agree with the initial question. Do I agree with titles? Yes I do. I establishes and identifies order. Bedsides order scripture talks of different offices and gifts. Paul told timothy to do the work of an Evangelist. Should you be called Evangelist if your not doing the work of one. But I think we take it too far. Where we focus more on titles and less on what it is we are suppose to do. There are some that have every title you can think of and will let you know. The church, well the apostalic charismatic church is probably the only entity where you can be self made. Dr. Moe Smith, Chief Apostle and Presiding Bishop. Why? Some of us on this site and other sites are on an ego trip. And we wonder why our members are breaking their neck to be in front of the church with a title. But we don't need to write it. Most everyone here know the word and more than that we know our heart and the nature of our agenda. If your an Apostle walk in it, Bishop be a good one not just in title, Evangelist then Evangelize. A man's gift will make room for him, so no need to promote ourselves to that degree. I hate to say this. But i've done my research on some of these long titles preachers and have heard them preach. Needless to say some left their home church too soon. The word they preach as no seasoning or depth to it. Not saying you got to hoop and make folks shout. But if you got all these titles and so much annointing you should be able to exegete a text.
This is the type of discussion I hope to create with my questions and statements.

I appreciate your views.
All these titiles simple means the dumbing down of ministry as a whole.People are more concered with collars , robes and hats , than they are of sunday school.They spend large sums of money for these ritualistic cermonies. yet they can't afford to take childrens church to mcdonalds for a happy meal. They charge there own assocites a few to learn the ways of Pastoring[ somebody had to take time with you].....oops my bad [smile].. I challenge people to ask questions like what is God's plan for salvation? what;s the differnce between the Gospels and the epistles ? etc. a title never has and never will get one to Glory, i pray you know the Lord for yourself.
Good discussion but it only revealed what we already knew, WE DON'T AGREE.

It is rather interesting that those that have a certain function in ministry have NOT learned not to belittle another function. The usher can't say to the praise and worship leader that they have no importance. Neither can the Evangelist tell those that are driven by their desire to administrate, and establish order in the churches (Apostolic gifts) that they have lost sight of the "big picture." The big picture is this- OBEY AND DO WHATEVER GOD TELLS YOU TO DO. I understand the Mary and Martha example PERFECTLY. Thank you for offering that reflection Apostle Green. When will we realize that our BIG God has purpose for EVERY ONE, EVERY FUNCTION, AND EVERY OFFICE?

What will it hurt us to acknowledge others in the manner that they choose to be acknowledged? Only in the church...

Usually, I don't get involved in these discussions, and I remember why now.

I'll cut to the point. Title or not, we have work to do...but don't you think it's rather interesting that all those that say titles are not important and this or that...HAVE TITLES.

I'm glad the video helped. Some will get it, others won't but PRAISE THE LORD. I'm done. ENJOY JESUS!
Good point Sis. Woods.
"I'll cut to the point. Title or not, we have work to do...but don't you think it's rather interesting that all those that say titles are not important and this or that...HAVE TITLES."

Coming from someone who does not have a title and don't want one lol I agree with this statement!!!
If having a title is going to cause me to lose focus on what is most important- souls, healing and the love of Christ being shown to each and every person on this earth that I come in contact with I'd rather just be LesBoogie and call it a day lol!!!
I can win more souls being me than I can trying to be something the "church" feels I should be.
I can count on one hand the people I know who really live up to their position...Most I see...Almost NONE of them...Most I have found...Most of the conferences and workshops...I personally have been blessed by a few...most have become redundant...

Really Pastor? If I may respectfully say this to you- It concerns me that you can count on one hand those that are living the life that they profess. Might I suggest that you change your circle of influence? If this is mostly what you see and what you've experienced, perhaps it would benefit you to step outside of that which you've seen and experienced. I just refuse to believe that EVERYONE is just a mess. I refuse to believe that we are MOSTLY a big joke. In fact my testimony is just the opposite. I know MANY who are answering the call and doing a wonderful job to pursue their purpose daily! It might benefit ALL of us to "get out more in fact." Maybe we need a change of environment if we only see crooks, scam artists, false prophets, and "boot legging." I try limit my connections and who I support in fellowships. These are people that I've watched "come up through the ranks" and they did not appear overnight. They are those that labor with me and that support God's agenda with a pure heart. When I attend conferences...etc. I CAN LOOK FORWARD to a move of God EACH AND EVERY TIME and there are always testimonies of lives being changed and transformed.

My thoughts about this is: BE THE EXCEPTION and you will draw others who also have a true heart after the things of God. There will always be counterfeits, but it does not negate the validity of that which is authentic. My prayer is that we would develop a greater level of faith in the "called." WORK to build and train leaders, don't just pile everyone up in the same pile and throw the whole heap out of the window with the conclusive opinion that it's all a hoax. When we think such horrible things about ourselves (leaders in the body of Christ), its no wonder that the world perceives us to be losers. We as leaders need to renew our minds, closely examine our affiliations, sow into that which is profitable for the Kingdom of God, and LOOK FOR God to show up in the lives of His leaders and His people. I choose optimism. I BELIEVE in the church as GOD intended it to be.
Respectfully- I never questioned your faith, your name, or your reputation. My prayer was for the body. My answer was simply in response to your own comment. If I misunderstood the point of your reply then it's dully noted, and please receive my apology. It was not personal and I meant no offense. It's GREAT that you do in fact know credible and integral people. From your initial response it read as though most of the people you knew were not to be trusted and that "I can count on one hand the people I know who really live up to their position...Most I see...Almost NONE of them...Most I have found...Most of the conferences and workshops...I personally have been blessed by a few...most have become redundant..."

I've never had the pleasure of meeting you so I can only respond to the "you" that was presented through your reply, but now that you have clarified your point for me (THANK YOU) I am glad you have great fellowship with awesome men and women of God.
*Duly noted* - (laughs at myself) I did not mean to be dull.

Thank you Pastor,
I APPRECIATE that, and I can really relate. I grew up with similar experiences. Until I stepped out on my own (being Senior Pastor of my own ministry and saying yes to the Apostolic call) and not just an assistant or associate, I knew very little of the realities that are hidden behind the sacred desk. I fight to maintain optimism and hope in God that there are MANY who have not bowed and I ask God to help me not to have an Elijah complex. This complex happens when we think that we are the only ones who are concerned for the purity of the Gospel or doctrine. But just as the word of the Lord came to Elijah, it also comes to us in these times as God declares over us these words:

"What are you doing here, Elijah?" He answered, "I have been very zealous for the LORD, the God of hosts; for the Israelites have forsaken your covenant, thrown down your altars, and killed your prophets with the sword. I alone am left, and they are seeking my life, to take it away." Then the LORD said to him, "Go, return on your way to the wilderness of Damascus; when you arrive, you shall anoint Hazael as king over Aram. Also you shall anoint Jehu son of Nimshi as king over Israel; and you shall anoint Elisha son of Shaphat of Abel-meholah as prophet in your place. Whoever escapes from the sword of Hazael, Jehu shall kill; and whoever escapes from the sword of Jehu, Elisha shall kill.
Yet I will leave seven thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal,
and every mouth that has not kissed him."

It may encourage us to visit 1 Kings 19:1-18 when we feel as though we are an island of purity surrounded by a sea of those abusing the call of God.


Spoken & Apostle Woods:

I so admire your love, respect and humbleness in this dialogue. It is terribly sad that many of the BPN members (including myself at times), do not appear to know how to graciously and lovingly communicate without undue vicious attacks. This is the kind of dialogue I can and do often learn from because it keeps me in check with myself.

It is my continuous prayer that everyone who reads this communication will take serious heed to it and learn from it because it reflects the God in you.

Much love and blessings to both of you.


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