John had said earlier that he (John) was baptizing with water but when Jesus comes He (jesus) will baptize with the Holy Ghost. This means John's kind of baptism is water and Jesus' kind of baptism is Holy Spirit.

And so if Jesus admonishes His disciples to get baptized those who believe in Him, will He be referring to John's kind (water) or Jesus' own kind (Holy Spirit).

Note that Jesus said those who will be saved are those who believe AND are baptized Mark 16:16. Am yet to meet anyone who claims one will not be saved because is not baptized in water. But if my understanding of 1 Cor. 12:13 is correct, then one who is not baptized of the Spirit is not a member of the Body of Christ and hence cannot be saved.

Finally, Eph 4:5 says "..... one Baptism". Is it the Holy Ghost baptism or water baptism?

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Thank you for the material. I will review and follow up with you on tomorrow.
Pitbull, I have heard from you since the attachments.

Brother John,

     Some good bible study material.  If you have anymore information to present that will be fine.  My position remains that physical water baptism is similiar to the ceremonial washings of the Pharisees that were an outward display of religious piety.

     Baptism of the Holy Spirit seems to have different levels of manifestation upon the believer.  Some people have a greater anointing of the Holy Spirit which is dependent upon their individual task and assignment. 

     Born of the water (word), our spiritual mother and of the Spirit, our spiritual father.  Something that is born must have a mother and father. 

     1 Corinthians 3:1, "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ."  In the end, the works of the Holy Spirit and its operation remains a mystery.

I agree with your position and thanks for your encouragement. am still trying to put together some materials and would let you have some in due course.

God bless you.

I thought you had agreed earlier in your submission that in Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19, Jesus could not be referring to John's baptism (of water) but His baptism of the spirit.

More so, the baptism as mentioned in Mark 16:16 is a prerequisite to salvation.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

It thus tallies with the baptism into Christ (which is by the Spirit of course) as mentioned in 1 Cor 12:13, by which one can be saved.

 

Jesus did not command water baptism. He was misunderstood. Why did Paul latter say that he was not called to baptize in water (1 Cor. 1:17), but made sure every believer he meets will receive the Holy Ghost baptism. Acts 19:2

 

I totally agree that water baptism has nothing to do with a person's salvation but Holy Ghost baptism (into Christ) has everything to do with it. And thats exactly what I am trumpeting here.

 

Heb 9:14  How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

Heb 10:22  Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

"Our hearts sprinkled from evil conscience [by the Spirit] and our bodies washed with water

I believe water does not give us good conscience or purge our conscience rather the blood which is a symbol of the Spirit in that the bible says life is in the blood and also the spirit produces life.

Also, John makes it clear in 

1 John 5:8 KJV(8)  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

that there is only one reality between the Spirit, water and blood and the rest are "shadows"

 

Lets look at 1 Pet 3:21 carefully. Wasn't Peter saying the baptism which now saves us is not that which washes dirt from our bodies (hence water) but rather that which gives us a good conscience (which is the Spirit).

 

I have realized that many a time when we meet "baptism" we quickly assume water baptism. Baptism only means "immersion" and not "immersion in water".I believe its time when we come across baptism we try to examine the particular scripture to see whether it refers to water or the Holy Ghost baptism. It is this same confusion that makes us to think that Mark 16:16 refers to water baptism even though we all believe water baptism is not a prerequisite to salvation and so clearly water baptism is not applicable to Mark 16:16.

 

The disciples who had some prominent ones as former disciples of John the baptism did baptize men in water even though Jesus Himself never did (John 4:2), and it was important for God to keep that record for us.

Peter even believed earlier that water baptism was a prerequisite to Holy Ghost baptism Acts 2:38 until the Lord proved him wrong in Cornelius house.

But I want to leave that for now and so we can concentrate on Christ himself and water baptism. I will deal with that of the disciples in an appropriate time.

Rev Watson,

I will do my best to answer them according to how you have listed them however because its one subject, I may occasionally put some together.

 

1) I do not believe in your three elements of baptism. I believe the baptism into the Holy Spirit and the baptism into Christ (the Anointed; Anointing; Spirit) are the same. When the Holy Spirit baptizes (immerses) a believer, the believer is immersed into Christ (the Anointing).

And then there is (was) water baptism.

 

Who baptizes the believer in water?___________ The MINISTER (older disciple, thus Man) who still believes men should be initiated as disciples of John the Baptist. John 1:26, 33, Matt 3:11

 

Who baptizes the believer in Jesus Christ (the Holy Spirit)?___  Jesus Christ in the person of the Holy Spirit. John 14:16-18 Jesus is the same who comforts us in the person of the Spirit of truth (Holy Spirit).

Today, we do not have Christ (Anointed) separately from the Spirit (Anointing). So I cannot agree that there is something The Holy Spirit does today and another that Christ does separately.

John 14:18 KJV(18)

I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

 

If Matthew 28:19 is not speaking of water baptism, then what baptism is it speaking of, and who is qualified to perform this baptism? ___________________________. Scriptural proof: Book____________, chapter_____________, verse(s)__________________.

 

Matthew 28:19 KJV(19)

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing [immersing] them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

Lets note that baptizing only means "immersing" and not "immersing in water". So therefore the scripture is very definite and clear as to what believers shoulld be baptized in - the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Interestingly the verse end with a colon. Which means the continuation is an elaboration of what has been said earlier. Therefore how we can baptize (immerse) one in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is not by immersing the fellow in water and mention "in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit". We can baptize (immerse) one in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, by executing verse 20 which follows the colon - teaching the believer to observe whatsoever the Lord has commanded us.

A further teaching on this will show how this ends up as the Holy Ghost baptism, but I wouldn't want to digress that much for now.

But I suspect what you want from this question is that if it is Holy Ghost baptism and it is Jesus or the Holy Ghost who does the baptizing then why did Jesus say we should go and baptize those who believe?

And the answer is very simple. Jesus said we should go and heal the sick; freely we have received and freely we should give. But am sure you believe the actual healing is from Jesus though we have the instruction to heal and we are the ones who actually do the laying of hands (and praying) to get the sick healed.

Likewise Jesus told us to get believers baptized in the Holy Spirit yet the baptism is of Him. Except the day of pentecost, all other Holy Ghost baptisms occurred by the "hand" of an apostle/disciple. Even when several men believed and many miracles were done there by the "hand" of Philip, it took the ministration of John and Peter for men to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Scriptural references of Holy Ghost baptism occurring by reason of the ministry (or if you like, hand) of the apostles/disciples are Acts 8:14, 

Acts 8:17 KJV(17)  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2-6

Acts 19:6 KJV(6)  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

2 Tim 1:6 - bearing in mind that the gift of God is the Holy Spirit (baptism)

 

Your questions I believe were designed to show how true the three baptisms of the believer (according to you) are. Therefore I believe my answers are enough critique to your theory.

 

I will like to end by sending you these two attachments. I hope they are studied with the "new wineskin" mentality, else the old wine will surely be better though the new has not been tasted. Luke 5:39

 

Shalom.

Attachments:
Hello, haven't heard from you since I gave the attachments for study.

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