Who was the Elect-Lady John Wrote to? - Black Preaching Network2024-03-29T12:10:48Zhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topics/who-was-the-elect-lady-john-wrote-to?commentId=916966%3AComment%3A2757830&feed=yes&xn_auth=noOkay, thanks. I agree with ev…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-25:916966:Comment:27634652011-11-25T18:28:14.947ZJoseph Carey Jr.https://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JosephCareyJr
<p>Okay, thanks. I agree with everything you said. It was just a thought. I wanted to see if anyone else ever thought of that before. Only assumptions. Thanks Rev. Watson.</p>
<p>Okay, thanks. I agree with everything you said. It was just a thought. I wanted to see if anyone else ever thought of that before. Only assumptions. Thanks Rev. Watson.</p> Bro. Watson, I appreciate you…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-24:916966:Comment:27623082011-11-24T18:05:20.574ZRev. Todd H. McCauleyhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ToddHMcCauley
<p>Bro. Watson, I appreciate your attention to theological detail. If more Pastors like yourself would spend more time in the details, our churches might not be in the messes that they find themselves in. To many of our pastoral leaders specialize in Water skiing versus scuba diving.</p>
<p>Bro. Watson, I appreciate your attention to theological detail. If more Pastors like yourself would spend more time in the details, our churches might not be in the messes that they find themselves in. To many of our pastoral leaders specialize in Water skiing versus scuba diving.</p> Is it possible for 2 John &am…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-24:916966:Comment:27622392011-11-24T16:59:55.395ZJoseph Carey Jr.https://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/JosephCareyJr
<p>Is it possible for 2 John & 3rd John to be connected, since in 3rd John he wrote to Gaius, because Diotrephes wanted all the attention and gave no acknowledgment to John and others (possibly who were trying to reach him for the church)? Justa question to see you all's thoughts.</p>
<p>Is it possible for 2 John & 3rd John to be connected, since in 3rd John he wrote to Gaius, because Diotrephes wanted all the attention and gave no acknowledgment to John and others (possibly who were trying to reach him for the church)? Justa question to see you all's thoughts.</p> My dear Brothers and "sister"…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-23:916966:Comment:27607072011-11-23T19:26:48.136ZRev. Todd H. McCauleyhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/ToddHMcCauley
<p>My dear Brothers and "sister" this has been an interesting discussion. Truly, Iron does sharpen Iron. 2 John is one of those NT letters that will never be preached in our churches. I'd like to respond to Brother Watson. Brother, the reason why I suggested like some others that the "Church" is in view versus an "individual" is because of the political context of John's day. As you know, PERSECUTION against the church was rampant (cf 1 John 2:15-19; 3:13; Jude 3; Rev 2-3)). Therefore in…</p>
<p>My dear Brothers and "sister" this has been an interesting discussion. Truly, Iron does sharpen Iron. 2 John is one of those NT letters that will never be preached in our churches. I'd like to respond to Brother Watson. Brother, the reason why I suggested like some others that the "Church" is in view versus an "individual" is because of the political context of John's day. As you know, PERSECUTION against the church was rampant (cf 1 John 2:15-19; 3:13; Jude 3; Rev 2-3)). Therefore in light of this, Barclay writes, <em>"The address("Elect-lady") may in fact be a skillful attempt to baffle any hostile person into whose hands the letter might come, and if that is so, our difficulty in identifying the person or church to whom the letter is addressed is nothing other than a tribute to the skill of John".</em> Therefore it makes sense to understand that John is indeed using figurative language to address the "Church". The phrase "Chosen lady" equals a local congregation at an undisclosed locale, and the phrase, "her children" equals the believers in that local church. John goes on to say, that he loves this "lady" and her children. Now verses 5-6 are interesting and lend evidence that the "Church" versus an individual person is being addressed. In verse 5 John addresses this "lady", "Now I ask you, lady..." The "you" grammatically is singular. But in verse 6 the "you" becomes plural. Why is an individual referred to by a plural? (i.e., the you becomes a "you ALL"). The Answer is obvious, the "You" in John's mind has always been a, "You all". The lady is indeed a group. Therefore the rest of this little letter makes sense. John is writing to the church to, "guard the truth". Look at Verse 8, the "yourselves"(plural) refers back to the "Lady"(singular) of verse 5. Again the singular "Lady" of verses 1 & 5, is the plural "you all" and "yourselves" of verses 6, 8, 10, 12. Just to put a nail in the coffin, in verse 12 John again uses a plural "you". John states to this chosen lady that he hopes to come to you and speak face to face. Why would John use a plural pronoun to address a single, individual? Because he cryptically is not referring to an individual, rather a group in an undisclosed location. Verse 13 refers to a fellow church who sends their greetings.</p> Blessings and Peace Brother C…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-23:916966:Comment:27605952011-11-23T03:21:09.816ZLovitha M, Whittington Sheltonhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/LovithaMarieWhittingtonShelto
<p>Blessings and Peace Brother Carey,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>From my knowledge and understanding, "the elect lady and her children" were randomly selected for this letter to be written. She has recognized John as her Elder. Also, she may have just lost the Priest of her household and needed John to guide her in love, truth, and obedience. Yes, even though she is not described as a widow. </p>
<p>There is another teaching that John is writing to the church as Jesus' chosen/elect lady (bride). In…</p>
<p>Blessings and Peace Brother Carey,</p>
<p> </p>
<p>From my knowledge and understanding, "the elect lady and her children" were randomly selected for this letter to be written. She has recognized John as her Elder. Also, she may have just lost the Priest of her household and needed John to guide her in love, truth, and obedience. Yes, even though she is not described as a widow. </p>
<p>There is another teaching that John is writing to the church as Jesus' chosen/elect lady (bride). In this teaching, I have not understood who the children of this bride may be...</p>
<p>Learning...</p> Yes I did talk about the issu…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-22:916966:Comment:27598312011-11-22T18:26:48.821ZMaurice Edwardshttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/PastorMauriceDEdwards
<p>Yes I did talk about the issue of "beginning" in a previous comment. Paul talked from this context alot too. Because the issue the apostles had was believers were being deceived into falling away from the doctrines that were "first" preached to them from the "beginning". The issue with the decievers in 2 John was this... "<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30653">7</sup>For many deceivers are entered into the world, "who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh". This is a deceiver…</p>
<p>Yes I did talk about the issue of "beginning" in a previous comment. Paul talked from this context alot too. Because the issue the apostles had was believers were being deceived into falling away from the doctrines that were "first" preached to them from the "beginning". The issue with the decievers in 2 John was this... "<sup id="en-KJV-30653" class="versenum">7</sup>For many deceivers are entered into the world, "who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh". This is a deceiver and an antichrist"....</p>
<p>And then he says this... </p>
<p><sup id="en-KJV-30655" class="versenum">9</sup>Whosoever transgresseth, and "abideth not in the doctrine of Christ", hath not God. "He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ", he hath both the Father and the Son.</p>
<p> <sup id="en-KJV-30656" class="versenum">10</sup>If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:</p>
<p>So yes... He begins by admonishing them to abide in truth and love. But outside influences always challenged they're teaching of Christ as the Son of God. They were anti-Christ. So it was all about them abidding in what the apostles had taught them from the beginning. As far as the elect lady issue... I agree the bible is a little unclear. The issue I struggle with is in the first verse. He says he loves her in the truth, and not only him, but others that have known the truth. So I believe he has to be talking about an individual woman or individual church that others love too. Peace </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p> In your earlier reply yo…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-22:916966:Comment:27598822011-11-22T14:34:13.368ZPastor Jonathanhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/Pitbull
<p> In your earlier reply you state, " The context of John's three letters is to remind them what they had heard and learned from the "beginning" (you'll find that word to be consistant in 1 and 2 john) because deceivers were among them."</p>
<p> Who are the deceivers? The deceivers are those who do not teach John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."</p>
<p> The main…</p>
<p> In your earlier reply you state, " The context of John's three letters is to remind them what they had heard and learned from the "beginning" (you'll find that word to be consistant in 1 and 2 john) because deceivers were among them."</p>
<p> Who are the deceivers? The deceivers are those who do not teach John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."</p>
<p> The main theme is being a mature saint of God (elder) and to know the truth. What is the truth. That none of us are anything without the love of Christ and that we should afford this love to those whom society considers unworthy. In this work is our reward.</p>
<p> You could continue with the sermon by developing a modern day application: </p>
<p> 1. We have no problem deceiving people who we do not truly love. You</p>
<p> really just want something from that person (marriages).</p>
<p> 2. We can deceive (lie) to ourselves, we really do not love self. We are</p>
<p> more concern with material gain than eternal life (soul).</p>
<p> Mark 12:30, "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment."</p>
<p> Mark 12:31, "And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."</p>
<p> This is how I would preach the chapter. Not to say you might have a few different preaching points such as who is the "elect lady." You see, since the bible is unclear and their is a difference of opinion, this is really not important. What is more important is that you are able to preach the theme they way God gives it to you to preach. </p>
<p> </p> Lol... Webster doesn't unders…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-21:916966:Comment:27591152011-11-21T23:39:30.965ZMaurice Edwardshttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/PastorMauriceDEdwards
<p>Lol... Webster doesn't understand what the Revelation says about the bride and the Bridegroom. We will become the bride when we have made ourselves ready and have been granted that clean, fine linen. (Glorification) </p>
<p><span class="versetext" id="re19-7" style="display: inline;"><span class="versenum">7</span> Let us be <span class="strongs">glad</span> <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">rejoice</span> , <span class="strongs">and…</span></span></p>
<p>Lol... Webster doesn't understand what the Revelation says about the bride and the Bridegroom. We will become the bride when we have made ourselves ready and have been granted that clean, fine linen. (Glorification) </p>
<p><span class="versetext" id="re19-7" style="display: inline;"><span class="versenum">7</span> Let us be <span class="strongs">glad</span> <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">rejoice</span> , <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">give</span> <span class="strongs">honour</span> to <span class="strongs">him:</span> <span class="strongs">for</span> the <span class="strongs">marriage</span> of the <span class="strongs">Lamb</span> is <span class="strongs">come</span> , <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">his</span> <span class="strongs">wife</span> hath <span class="strongs">made</span> <span class="strongs">herself</span> <span class="strongs">ready</span> .</span> <span class="versetext" id="re19-8" style="display: inline;"><span class="versenum">8</span> <span class="strongs">And</span> to <span class="strongs">her</span> was <span class="strongs">granted</span> <span class="strongs">that</span> she should be <span class="strongs">arrayed</span> in fine <span class="strongs">linen,</span> <span class="strongs">clean</span> <span class="strongs">and</span> <span class="strongs">white:</span><a rel="nofollow" name="a" id="a"></a><sup class="footnote" style="display: none;"><a rel="nofollow" name="a" href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/revelation/19.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-a" title="white: or, bright" id="a"></a></sup> <span class="strongs">for</span> the fine <span class="strongs">linen</span> <span class="strongs">is</span> the <span class="strongs">righteousness</span> of <span class="strongs">saints.</span></span></p>
<p><span class="versetext" style="display: inline;">We aren't there yet! I'm married... My wife didn't become a bride until she was adorned on the wedding day and walked down the isle. "Here comes the bride, all dressed in white".</span></p>
<p><span class="versetext" style="display: inline;">I agree with the "sister" interpretation... But I don't agree totally with your interpretation on 1 Timothy 5. I see Paul commanding him to entreat them with all purity when you look at it grammatically. This chapter was instructing him on how to treat the elders and widows. I don't see where Paul is instructing him to admonish them to live a pure life in verse 2. But this post isn't about that as you stated. Peace.</span></p> 1 Timothy 5:2, "The elde…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-21:916966:Comment:27591102011-11-21T23:07:15.137ZPastor Jonathanhttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/Pitbull
<p> 1 Timothy 5:2, "The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity." The theme of the text is to intreat (encourage) and promote pure living. The text deals with relationships.</p>
<p> The bride is a woman just married or about to be married according to Webster. </p>
<p> Not to stray to far from the original question, who is the "elect lady" and why is she called "sister?" The elect lady can be a literal lady, a church or an individual child of God. I…</p>
<p> 1 Timothy 5:2, "The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity." The theme of the text is to intreat (encourage) and promote pure living. The text deals with relationships.</p>
<p> The bride is a woman just married or about to be married according to Webster. </p>
<p> Not to stray to far from the original question, who is the "elect lady" and why is she called "sister?" The elect lady can be a literal lady, a church or an individual child of God. I believe the text is suggesting that all three should be mature in Christ and love not only those who are in church on Sunday morning, but show some love to your family who are also called by God through Christ Jesus.</p>
<p> The children are the product of love. You are here because of love between your mother and father. The "sister" (feminine gender) is simply symbolizing that we are the "elect lady" (bride) of Christ. If you do not prefer bride let's say that Christ is our "head." He is the head of the church, head of your life and the head of my home. The reward is the works that we do for Christ which is winning souls for Christ through the love of Jesus. If we are not showing love to the world than there is no reward. Love outside of the love of Christ is meaningless. </p>
<p> Keep in mind that the text is packed with meaning. Not to say a slight difference of interpretation is incorrect. The moral lesson should be the same. </p> Yes that is exactly the text…tag:abcpreachers.ning.com,2011-11-21:916966:Comment:27591072011-11-21T22:20:09.175ZMaurice Edwardshttps://abcpreachers.ning.com/profile/PastorMauriceDEdwards
<p>Yes that is exactly the text in which my comment comes from concerning elders. And I'm sure you know Paul addresses elders in another context in Acts 20:28... <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-27655">28</sup>Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood... Notice "feed", this means to shepherd/pastor. In 1 Timothy Paul is teaching Timothy about honoring…</p>
<p>Yes that is exactly the text in which my comment comes from concerning elders. And I'm sure you know Paul addresses elders in another context in Acts 20:28... <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-27655">28</sup>Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood... Notice "feed", this means to shepherd/pastor. In 1 Timothy Paul is teaching Timothy about honoring elders, how to treat widows, and how to bring correction in the midst of them with respect and order. He gave Timothy the authority to rebuke those who sin and to keep order in the churches. The problem today is we don't recognize who's in authority to bring correction/rebuke and the order in which to do so. Paul gave him specific instructions on how to do so. To entreat means to request earnestly or beseech. So this tells you that you are to approach elders with respect. I'm not sure where you got the sexual immorality from in this text but you're free to share that with me as I am still learning. And I'm not sure where you were going with the soul winning interpretation in 2 John 8 either. The context of John's three letters is to remind them what they had heard and learned from the "beginning" (you'll find that word to be consistant in 1 and 2 john) because deceivers were among them.</p>
<p>And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.</p>
<p> <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30653">7</sup>For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.</p>
<p>So love, truth, and the doctrine of Christ is what John was admonishing them to abide in because there is a reward for those who abideth in them. But I do believe he was writting to the literal church but I thought I would bring up the controversial info as well. As I do on Theologica as well. And showing love for a prisoner, drug addict, or person from another ethnic group sounds very pious but lets remember the proper context of the commandment of love that originated in the OT. We are to love our neighbor/brother first. Jesus commanded the disciples in John 13 to love one another. And that you will know who his disciples were because of their love for one another. Sometimes we extend love to everybody but our own brothers and sisters and don't win many of the ones we call ourselves ministering to. Oh, and we're the body of Christ, we won't become the bride of Christ until the Bridegroom unites with us and we have the marriage supper in heaven. </p>
<p><u><b><font color="#800000">Revelation 19:7-9<br/></font></b></u><font color="#800000">Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: <u>for <b>the marriage of the Lamb is come</b>, and his wife hath made herself ready</u>. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, <b>Blessed are they</b> which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.</font></p>