Refuting the "Once Saved Always Saved" Doctrine Pt. 1
Refuting "Once Saved Always Saved"
Confessing Jesus or Denying the Lord Jesus Christ is the "saved / not saved" main issue. It is something THAT WE DO, based on our beliefs. People who argue for OSAS will often say,
"There's nothing you can DO to become saved, or it will be works. Therefore, there is nothing you can DO to become unsaved, you can't GAIN or LOSE salvation based on what you do."
Well, the first premise is wrong, because to be saved, one has to DO quite a lot; first be willing to hear the message, second, believe it in faith, third, repent of your sins, and fourth, confess that you believe God rose Jesus from the dead, and fifth, continue in the faith. And the act a person takes that leads to salvation is the opposite act one takes as a result of falling away from the faith. Confession or Denial of Jesus!
The other common thing people who belive OSAS often say in the debate is,
"How much or which sin would actually cause one to be unsaved? If we can lose salvation, where do we draw the line? or How much sin can I get away with?"
Again, it seems they forget the key issue, belief in Jesus and confession of Him.
2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
Luke 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Exodus 32:33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Psalm 69:28, Deuteronomy 29:20
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
The ACT of confessing Jesus is not only important to salvation, but also for determining who goes to heaven in the rapture.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my
word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.
Some scholars have tried to deny that Matthew 10:32 applies to them, saying it's for the Jews, or people of a different dispensation. However, this same theme is found, as quoted above, in the Epistles: Timothy, Romans, Jude. It's found in Revelation. It's found in the Old Testament. It's a theme of the entire Bible!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The process of falling away, and changing one's beliefs, which eventually can lead a person to deny Jesus, is described in many verses.
Given all of the ways to fall away from the faith, the Bible tells us to examine ourselves, and work out our salvation with fear. Sometimes religious people who may believe OSAS become very offended if you preach to them anything that might question their salvation. They say, "How dare you!". Well, I dare because scripture commands us to question our salvation.
2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
1 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Next is a list of the things lead to falling away from the faith and belief in Jesus.
Falling away & being rejected by God, can be the result of (each verse quoted in full below):
for lack of knowledge & rejected knowledge Hosea 4:6
that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not Matt 7:24-27
hearers only, deceiving your own selves James 1:22
beareth not fruit & abide not in me John 15:2,6
not a doer & forgetteth what manner of man he was James 1:22-24
faith without works is dead Jam 2:17-26
he that lacketh & hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins 2 Peter 1:9
unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures 2 Peter 3:16
err from the truth James 5:19-20
lust, and enticed James 1:13-16
the love of money 1 Timothy 6:10
be a friend of the world James 4:4
the pollutions of the world & again entangled therein & turned to his own vomit again 2 Peter 2:20-22
the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word Matt 13:22
have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away Luke 8:13
tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended Matt 13:21
be without chastisement Hebrews 12:6-8
servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death Romans 6:16
being led away with the error of the wicked 2 Peter 3:17
seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils 1 Timothy 4:1
an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12-15
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth Hebrews 10:26
having put away concerning faith & blaspheme 1 Timothy 1:18-20:
counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing Hebrews 10:29
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Matt 7:
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
James 1:22-24
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] thatbeareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
2 Peter 1:1-10
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 3:
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
James 5:
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 1:13-16
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
2 Peter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Matt 13:
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Matt 13:
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Hebrews 12
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
Hebrews 3:12-15
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
1 Timothy 1:18-20:
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The person who believes OSAS often will look at all the evidence above and conclude that if a person "falls away" he was never really saved to begin with. I'm sorry, the Bible never says, "he who falls away was never really saved to begin with". All the messages and exhortations and warnings about falling away are written to believers.
Confessing Jesus or Denying the Lord Jesus Christ is the "saved / not saved" main issue. It is something THAT WE DO, based on our beliefs. People who argue for OSAS will often say,
"There's nothing you can DO to become saved, or it will be works. Therefore, there is nothing you can DO to become unsaved, you can't GAIN or LOSE salvation based on what you do."
Well, the first premise is wrong, because to be saved, one has to DO quite a lot; first be willing to hear the message, second, believe it in faith, third, repent of your sins, and fourth, confess that you believe God rose Jesus from the dead, and fifth, continue in the faith. And the act a person takes that leads to salvation is the opposite act one takes as a result of falling away from the faith. Confession or Denial of Jesus!
The other common thing people who belive OSAS often say in the debate is,
"How much or which sin would actually cause one to be unsaved? If we can lose salvation, where do we draw the line? or How much sin can I get away with?"
Again, it seems they forget the key issue, belief in Jesus and confession of Him.
2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
Luke 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Exodus 32:33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.
Psalm 69:28, Deuteronomy 29:20
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
The ACT of confessing Jesus is not only important to salvation, but also for determining who goes to heaven in the rapture.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my
word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.
Some scholars have tried to deny that Matthew 10:32 applies to them, saying it's for the Jews, or people of a different dispensation. However, this same theme is found, as quoted above, in the Epistles: Timothy, Romans, Jude. It's found in Revelation. It's found in the Old Testament. It's a theme of the entire Bible!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The process of falling away, and changing one's beliefs, which eventually can lead a person to deny Jesus, is described in many verses.
Given all of the ways to fall away from the faith, the Bible tells us to examine ourselves, and work out our salvation with fear. Sometimes religious people who may believe OSAS become very offended if you preach to them anything that might question their salvation. They say, "How dare you!". Well, I dare because scripture commands us to question our salvation.
2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
1 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Next is a list of the things lead to falling away from the faith and belief in Jesus.
Falling away & being rejected by God, can be the result of (each verse quoted in full below):
for lack of knowledge & rejected knowledge Hosea 4:6
that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not Matt 7:24-27
hearers only, deceiving your own selves James 1:22
beareth not fruit & abide not in me John 15:2,6
not a doer & forgetteth what manner of man he was James 1:22-24
faith without works is dead Jam 2:17-26
he that lacketh & hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins 2 Peter 1:9
unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures 2 Peter 3:16
err from the truth James 5:19-20
lust, and enticed James 1:13-16
the love of money 1 Timothy 6:10
be a friend of the world James 4:4
the pollutions of the world & again entangled therein & turned to his own vomit again 2 Peter 2:20-22
the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word Matt 13:22
have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away Luke 8:13
tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended Matt 13:21
be without chastisement Hebrews 12:6-8
servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death Romans 6:16
being led away with the error of the wicked 2 Peter 3:17
seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils 1 Timothy 4:1
an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12-15
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth Hebrews 10:26
having put away concerning faith & blaspheme 1 Timothy 1:18-20:
counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing Hebrews 10:29
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Matt 7:
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
James 1:22-24
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] thatbeareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
2 Peter 1:1-10
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 3:
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
James 5:
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 1:13-16
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
2 Peter 2:
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Matt 13:
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Matt 13:
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Hebrews 12
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.
Hebrews 3:12-15
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
1 Timothy 1:18-20:
18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Hebrews 10:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The person who believes OSAS often will look at all the evidence above and conclude that if a person "falls away" he was never really saved to begin with. I'm sorry, the Bible never says, "he who falls away was never really saved to begin with". All the messages and exhortations and warnings about falling away are written to believers.
Comment
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Comment by Anna on April 24, 2009 at 5:39pm
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Busby:
To provide biblical proof regaridng the "Greek" term in question, note below:
Strong's G1080 - gennaō γεννάω
gennaō
Pronunciation
gen-nä'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
from a variation of G1085
TDNT Reference
1:665,114
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) of men who fathered children
a) to be born
b) to be begotten
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In Matt. 1:20 this same word is rendered "that which is conceived"
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for
**** that which is conceived (G1080) ***
in her is of the Holy Ghost.
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Also, did Abraham bear or 'begat" Isaac?
Act 7:8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so [Abraham] begat (G1080) Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac [begat] Jacob; and Jacob [begat] the twelve patriarchs.
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All of the ancestors of Messiah in Matt. 1:7 - Matt. 1:16 (G1080) is translated as "begat".
There are many more texts that I could quote but in this final one, (G1080) is translated both as "born" and "begotten":
1Jo 5:18 We know 1492 that 3754 whosoever 3956 ****is born 1080**** of 1537 God 2316 sinneth 264 not 3756; but 235 ****he that is begotten 1080**** of 1537 God 2316 keepeth 5083 himself 1438, and 2532 that wicked one 4190 toucheth 680 him 846 not 3756.
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So don't be "married" to the translators decision on how he renders a word. Check it out for yourself, and compare other texts with it and the truth will always come forth, and provide instruction and correction.
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Comment by HOPE - Psalm 43:5 on April 24, 2009 at 12:17pm
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LOL I totally understand where you are coming from... not necesarily leaving such topics but how the disucussions could lead to something unfruitful and not edifying. Word of advice for you my dear friend... never announce that you are going to leave the room...just leave the room. (smile)
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Comment by shemuel on April 24, 2009 at 5:14am
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Minister Busby I would like to point out a couple of scripture references that comes straight from the Messiah Yahshua, Matt.24:13 "He who endures to end shall be saved", self-explainatory,straight to the point. Romans5:9-10 notice Paul wrote in the future tense:We will be saved. Our salvation is not complete. Philippians 3:14 the mark that we are pressing for, or our goal is salvation, as you said we get this saving ,this salvation through Yahshua. One more point, Romans 7:12-25 show some work having to be done in order to stay on track to obtain salvation through Yahshua. John 3:13 Yahshua said no man hath ascended to heaven. The teaching that we die and go to heaven is an ancient teaching from Catholicism passed down for generations. Read Rev.Chapter 21 from verse1 on it speaks about the place Yahshua went to his father house and prepared for us in verse 2, and verse 10 coming down out of heaven from Yahweh.This chapter speaks of the gates made of pearl, having the names of the twelve tribes of Israel written on them. Read a little more, and it speaks of the streets being paved with gold,we won't need the sun or the moon anymore, because the glory of Yahweh will light this place.This place being New Yerushalayim,please study this chapter, enjoy the journey of understanding. SHALOM
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Busby, I have posted a blog which you could benefit from reading about being "Born Again" which you referred to above.
This poster is correct. No one is born again now, in the flesh, we will be born again with our corruptable "flesh" or mortal body, puts on '"immortalily" that is when we get our "spiritual body" and are SPIRIT, as we enter the kingdom, as Messiah states in John 3.
The confusion comes from the greek word which means BOTH, "begotten" as well as "born". People get caught up in the KJV or popular translation and never check out the underlying Greek or Hebrew words for themselves. We have to correctly interpret each Biblical text based upon the context.
If these issues are not important, why are you responding to them?
Yes these issues are important to address as there is so many false teachings and false teachers, not that they intend to be so, but they refuse to be corrected by the Scriptures.
The apostle James speaks of such in
Jas 1:22-24 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. "
So, read my article posted today on "Born Again" and get back with me, and show me if you can from the scriptures where I am wrong.
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