Introduction:There is a lot of confusion as to who or what the Holy Ghost is. The Holy Ghost is the angel of the Lord, and we will prove that because most people think the Holy Ghost is apart of the God Head, and that is not the case. The angel is in the presence of the Lord, but is not the Lord at all. Angels are ministering spirits, not Gods. I can go so far as to tell you what the Holy Ghosts name is, but we are going to focus on showing that the Holy Ghost is an angel. If you read this with a preconceived thought, you will not learn period, and I can tell if you have learned or not by the Posts or if nobody posts. I always have to start out with these scriptures to show you I am bringing this Word just as the bible instructs. to the Law, and testimony, Precept upon precept, Line upon line, here a little, there a little. The scriptures are also of no private interpretation.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Isaiah 28:9-11 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


Hezekiah: Just had to get that out of the way. The ones that teach knowledge learn from the milk of the Word, and it is learned precept upon precept line upon line here a little and there a little from the law and testimony. There is also no private interpretation of the scriptures, so what I read and understand everyone else should able to read and understand if they want to.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Hezekiah: This is referring to when Moses was speaking to God by the mouth of the angel. We have to lay down the ground work before we get into the Precept of this thread. He said that he would raise up a prophet like Moses, and the people will listen to that Prophet as the children of Israel listened to Moses. This is the angel that told Moses this. We will see this later.

John 12:44-50 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Hezekiah: Ok. This is a testimony of Jesus coming to do what the Father sent him to do. This is that Prophet that God told Moses that he would send to the people. This is to show you that the Father sent Jesus, and when Jesus was on Earth, there was no Holy Ghost, and When Jesus died, there he is, waiting on Mary, and Peter and the others on the first day that many people think Jesus rose which is not true, but that is another lesson. This should show you that before Jesus came, there was the Holy Spirit, which is the angel, but Jesus was around there was no Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost because Jesus was on Earth, there was no need for a messenger, Jesus was the messenger when he was on Earth. Now we are going to read where Jesus told the people that he was going to send a comforter when he died.

John 14:14-17If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Hezekiah: So far we have God, the Father, and he sent a Prophet like unto Moses, which we found out was Jesus, and now we have the comforter, who is the spirit of truth. There was no Holy ghost around or spirit of truth around when Jesus was around because Jesus' words were spirit, and they were truth. This is why he is telling the people of the comforter he will bring when he dies, and resurrects back to the Father. I say back because that is where he came from. Remember The prophet like unto Moses. Now we are going to see what this Holy Ghost or spirit of truth does.

John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Hezekiah: So the Spirit of Truth guides you into all truth, and he speaks not for himself. He is a ministering spirit. This is why Jesus didn't need him around when Jesus was on Earth in the Flesh. Jesus words are truth, and they are spirit, so why would you need the Spirit of truth, when you already have the truth that the Spirit of Truth was going to bring. Aint that simple? He said that he should glorify Jesus because all things that the Father has is Jesus' as well. No Holy Ghost as the Godhead so far, right? Hebrews is going to let you know that the angels ministering spirits, and they are to teach the people to be heirs of salvation.

Hebrews 1:13-14 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Hezekiah: This is letting you know that The angels are not equal to God the Father or God the Son. They are servant Spirits. So we have God telling Moses he was going to raise up a Prophet like unto Moses, and the People hear this prophet as they people heard Moses. We found out that the Prophet was Jesus, and then Jesus told us about the comforter he was going to bring because there was no need for a Spirit of truth because Jesus' words are truth, and Spirit. Let's go further.

Revelation 1:1-2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Hezekiah: So back in John, that Spirit of Truth is an angel. He said that he sent and signified the Word by the angel unto his servant John. So, It is clear that the Godhead is 2 because the Spirit of truth is the angel, but we will go further to show that the angel is the Holy Ghost, and not apart of the Godhead. Jesus is going to tell you here as well.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Hezekiah:
Jesus said that he sent his angel to testify. This is the last book on the last page of the Bible. Still no Holy Ghost in the God Head.

Acts 8:26-29 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

Hezekiah: So, the angel is the spirit, and is the Spirit of Truth. It is the angel who speaks to man directly. God the Father, tells God the Son, and God the Son tells the angel, who is a ministering spirit, and the angel tells man. That is the Godhead, and God Head Protocol. Let's define angel, and Holy Spirit, then we are going to go to more Bible.

Holy Spirit: (n.) the spirit of God.http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Holy+Spirit?db=luna

Angel (n.) one of a class of spiritual beings; a celestial attendant of God.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/angel

The angel was called the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament, and was called the Holy Ghost in the New Testament. We are going to see that in these next scriptures.

Acts 7:35-38 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:


Hezekiah: Didn't we read this in Deuteronomy? I think we did. It was the angel that spoke to Moses at Mt. Sinai directly.

Judges 2:1-4 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this? Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you. And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.

Hezekiah: Do you see how the angel speaks exactly what thus saith the LOrd. This is why he is called the Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit, The Holy Ghost. He is in the presence of God, speaking the Word of God.

Exodus 23:20-22
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

Hezekiah: We never see the angel or the Holy Spirit doing what he wants. Being apart of the God Head. I left out a lot of scriptures out of this lesson to not make it unbearable to read. Let's go further. We are going to break down this trinity interpretation.

1John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Hezekiah: There are 3 that bare record in Heaven. The Father who is the beginning of the Word. The Son, who is the Word, or record, and the Angel or Holy Ghost because he is in the Presence of God, and the messenger of God, and they all bring the same message. All these 3 are one because they all bring one message, as we are one body of Christ by keeping his commandments. Is that not simple? The simplicity of the Word.

Zachariah 4:1-6 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Hezekiah: Again, the angel is speaking the Word of God. You can also see that when Jesus is not around in the Old Testament, the angel is the one delivering the message. When Jesus comes on the scene, you never read about the angel coming to anyone saying anything until Jesus dies. We read where Jesus was telling the people about the angel he was going to leave until his second coming, and that angel is still around to this day.

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Daniel 8:15-18 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

Hezekiah: Now we have a name. Gabriel. There are 3 that bare record or bare the Word in Heaven, right? So this has to be that angel, or Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost we have been reading about because there are 3 that bare a record in Heaven. If you bare a record, you have some information to give. The angel Micheal is the angel of war, and that is why he does not bare record, or have a message to give.

Daniel 9:21-22 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

Matthew 1:18-25 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Hezekiah: Here is the same situation in Luke, and you will see that the Holy Ghost is Gabriel.

Luke 1:26-31 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Hezekiah: Was this not the same time period from 2 different accounts? Matthew called the angel the Holy Ghost, and Luke called him Gabriel. The angel Gabriel is the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Truth.

Daniel 10:5-6 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.

Daniel 10:10-14 And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Hezekiah: See this shows you that Micheal is not the messenger angel because Michael helped the messenger angel out, so that he could tell Daniel the vision that should fall on the people of the latter days. or in our generation because these are the last days make no mistake about it. Read Matthew 24, and it will show you the signs of the times. Now here in John 6:48 Jesus is talking about he is the bread of life.

John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Hezekiah: Remember earlier when I said Jesus' words were spirit, and they were truth, well here is the scripture. You don't need the Spirit of Truth when the Lord's Words were Spirit and truth when he was in the flesh, and now they are spirit and truth in this book we call the Bible, and now that Jesus is risen, we have the angel Gabriel, the Messenger angel, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit still in the presence of God opening our minds and hearts to the words of this Bible, so that we believe what is written down. Did not God say the new covenant was the law written in our hearts, and in our minds? Is this not simple?

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

Hezekiah:
So, we found out that the Godhead is the Father, and the Son, and the Messenger angel is Gabriel, and he brings the word to man, and man brings the message of the Bible to all the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam. I hope you learned something from this lesson. Jesus had the words of eternal life, so the keeping of the commandments will seed eternal life, and Gabriel is the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament, and He is the Holy Ghost in the New Testament.

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Bro. Zealot, even a babe in Christ can understand this truth! Your posting is very clear and is well within the text of each scripture.

Shalom in Yeshua
@ Brother Zealot X

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Hezekiah: If that was not Yeshuah in the Wilderness with Moses, and Israel.. Explain this... Brother Zealot


LAW:
Numbers 21:5-9 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

TESTIMONY: 1Corinthians 10:1-9 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Hezekiah: Do you believe what you read? Like I said, when you want to drop that wall, we can be able to equally share doctrine....
Hezekiah, I already responded to this at length. But instead of responding to the very SIMPLE things that I brought up you choose to not deal with ANY OF IT and instead bring up your own argument? Do you understand figurative language? Similies? Metaphors?

First of all, it says YHWH sent fiery serpents. It was the bronze serpent on the staff that represented the coming messiah. That is a SYMBOL. Do you understand that a SPIRITUAL rock is not a real rock? We can divide things into 2 categories. LITERAL and FIGURATIVE. The spiritual understanding is the figurative. The figurative/spiritual is a parallel to the physical. The physical is used to teach a spiritual message. In other words, FIGURATIVE LANGUAGE in employed in order to teach spiritual things.

What came out of the rock? Water. LIVING WATER, perhaps? The physical water saved their lives. The spiritual water also saves lives but from SPIRITUAL death; not physical death. Understand? Again the spiritual parallels the physical. And there was no rock that followed them. That was a reference to them taking water with them FROM the rock.

John 4:10 - Yeshua answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of G-d, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

What is the “Gift of G-d”?

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of G-d is eternal life through Yeshua haMashiach our master.

What did the water do for them in the wilderness? Saved. What is the gift of G-d? SALVATION. But who is salvation THROUGH? Yeshua. Notice it says “through” not from. It’s Yah’s plan. Yeshua is the instrument of Yah’s will regarding salvation.

John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Now if you are quite satisfied in the NT you can stop here and be confused thinking that Yeshua is offering himself. However, if you are a bible student then you should understand that he is quoting the scriptures which says:

Jeremiah 17:13 - O YHWH, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken YHWH, the fountain of living waters.

Who is the fountain of living waters? It is YHWH. What is the fountain? That is the SOURCE. If you take water from the source then you will have living water also. And just as Yeshua did you can even give that water to whoever thirsts. But who can give you the living waters? Didn't YHWH command Moshe to speak to the rock so that water would come out? And instead he struck it. So on one hand you have the living waters and other other you have the one who can give it to you. I'm going to point a few more things but first lets go back to John 8. This is something I showed you before but you were too stubborn to listen to.

...
John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? 54 Yeshua answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your G-d:

WHO did they say was their G-d? You will never find another G-d in Scriptures other than YHWH/THE FATHER. And by saying "HE is your G-d" you should realize that Yeshua is saying that he IS NOT the one who they believe to be G-d. Instead he believes that he was SENT by that person who THEY say is their G_d. "ye say" is very important. He is recognizing that their beliefs are very much in line with who he is saying is the Father and the one who sent him. THIS CAN ONLY MEAN ONE THING. It can only mean that YHWH is the Father and not Yeshua. He cannot claim to be the one who sent him when he said elsewhere that he did not send himself. I suggest you read this as many times as it takes for you to get it. Yeshua CANNOT be the elohim (G-d) of the OT. He SAYS SO more than once. The fact is, these Pharisees in John 8 were not under any teaching of Yeshua so even if you want to play games and suggest that "Jesus" is the one who taught that there were 2 gods or whatever, THEY DID NOT ACCEPT HIM AND DID NOT BELIEVE THAT. What they believed is reflected in Mark12:29-34 and John 8. They believed in the Father. This was the SAME person who said "I am a father to Yisra'el". It is translated as "THE LORD" which most bible students should know by now was a substitution of the tetragrammaton (YHWH). So clearly YHWH is the Father of Yisra'el and this is who Yeshua says sent him and who the Israelites claimed to be their G-d. And again, does Yeshua take this opportunity to teach anything different? NO.

So how could you have been wrong when you have seen this verse in 1 Corinthians 10 obviously talking about Yeshua? The reality is that Paul, more than anyone else in the NT, quotes Scripture seemingly out of context because he's trying to point out hints in order to prove that Yeshua was the messiah. He's not trying to rewrite the book on Yah. What he's trying to do is show that these things they all took part in weren't just history. They were prophetic. The feast days, for example. They are not just yearly celebrations. They are prophetic. They give clues about what will happen and if you practice them you will keep that knowledge alive.

The object is not to be simple minded and go overboard with trying to match things up. After all, Yeshua said:

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

comparing himself to a serpent? Some have thought this and utterly turned away from Yeshua, thinking he is the serpent in the garden trying to deceive them. But why did YHWH use serpents in the desert in the first place? Think about that for awhile. Try to come up with a deeper meaning. Yeshua said be wise as serpents but harmless as doves. So why would people assume he was the same serpent just because that was the analogy being used? Is that the only possible answer?

Paul was a good missionary but Peter had this to say about him and its true.

2 Peter 3:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I've already shown you what YAH said. I've already shown you what Yeshua said. They both disagree with you flat out, making the idea that "Jesus" is the G-d of the OT absolutely IMPOSSIBLE. But somehow because of Paul your understanding of the scriptures is flawed because you're not listening to YHWH or Yeshua. You're listening to what you THINK (and have been told) Paul is saying. That's a whole lot to hang on understanding one person. You are using one person to change the idea behind all the scriptures such that you think Yeshua was the one speaking as YHWH. But again... I already showed you where Yeshua says that this being they knew as G-d was none other than THE FATHER; the one who sent him. So how is it that you bring forth an interpretation of Paul that destroys all these writings? And then you imagine that I have a wall up in order to justify not listening to reason and dealing with the arguments I've given you which basically amounted to the verbal testimonies of YHWH and Yeshua. And against verbal testimony from the people in question you want to throw at me your understanding of the words of a man who Peter warns can be hard to understand by the very same people who wrestle with the scriptures which is EXACTLY what you're doing by ignoring the verbal testimony I have shown you.


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The only way you can understand Paul is if you are learned in the Scriptures. Why? Because that is the reason for not understanding that Peter gives. You think I'm just not getting it but you are not getting what the Scriptures have said. The Israelites never needed any understanding of Paul in order to figure out who G-d was. Again, Yeshua recognized that the person who sent him was the person they claimed was G-d without the NT. THEREFORE THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEEN WRONG! Nor was what they said based upon your understanding of what Paul said. I'm going by facts. You are going by ONE INTERPRETATION of Paul's writings. By another INTERPRETATION of Paul's writings people argue with you about not having to keep the law. So before you even think to try to make it not about an interpretation you need to realize that as soon as you read it and think you know what it says, THAT is your interpretation. The way you read and understand it IS your interpretation. An interpretation is not some bad thing. The drawback is simply that it can be wrong so you shouldn’t lean on it too much. And you are leaning on it because when I show you what YHWH says and what Yeshua says, your response to me is that I have a wall I need to drop. We do not need to equally share doctrine. You need to read and understand what YHWH has said. Then you can understand how Paul is using scriptures.

If you understand who Paul's audience is you can start to see the parallel between what the Israelites went through in the past and the things they were doing at that time. Paul desperately tries to prove that Yeshua is the messiah, not that the messiah is G-d. That is ridiculous and impossible according to the law. People ASSume that was what he was trying to prove because they don't know him, nor do they know his beliefs. What they know is what Christianity taught them about Paul's writings. And Christianity, being unstable and unlearned in the Scriptures, manipulates Paul's writings to say things that Paul never believed. Paul did NOT SAY they tempted Yeshua in the desert. He said they TEMPTED. That is NOT the same and you cannot put words in his mouth. When Paul said these words he knew who G-d was and this was not even a topic up for debate. And you need to understand that if Paul or John or James or anyone said something that did not line up with Scripture you DO NOT believe them. I’m not saying Paul did that. I’m saying IF HE DID I would not contradict the scriptures just because Christians decided to append his writings to their own library of books called the bible. No where did Yah command any of us to use their library of books just because they called it holy. So in other words, you need to understand that NOTHING can trump the Scriptures. Again, the identity and quantity of “God” was not up for debate among Israelites; ONLY amongst the gentiles because they were still dealing with their former pagan beliefs. Paul is laying out the similarities between the old ways and the new, how Yeshua is their spiritual sustenance. He is the manna from heaven, the bread of life. He is also identified with the living waters because what are these things? These things are all symbolic of the character and spirit of YHWH that was in Yeshua. But you do greatly err not understanding what these symbols represent and what Yeshua represents. Paul understood.

Just as they were baptized into Moshe the disciples baptized into Yeshua. Just as Moshe was the mediator then, Yeshua is now the mediator. And just as they had all these things that YHWH gave them; the manna, the water, the pillar of fire, the cloud, the same way they turned against him and were punished, that was all done as an example to all of us. Look at Paul’s message as a whole. He’s not making a sermon based on claiming that YHWH in the OT was Yeshua. There is no such sermon. But those who have been lied to and led to believe it assume or act as if there was. But if there was then there would be clear statements and sermons about it. And I got news for you. People died because they did not respect the office of G-d. Do you really think YAH would have waited thousands of years for Paul to come along to have him explain it to the whole world? There is not a SINGLE SOLITARY text in all of Scriptures, not a single word from any prophet, explaining how there are really 2 or 3 gods in 1.

You have simply fallen for a clever magic trick. Magicians use misdirection a lot, coupled with deception. They tell you that they are going to levitate themselves. Therefore your mind is already expecting that to happen and now its just waiting to see it. The lights and the action distracts your eyes from any props you might have been able to see and often the props are built in order to look ordinary on the outside or on one side that is always facing the audience. All the magician has to do is suspend your disbelief and perform the trick outside of your visual range. And so what you see is what he wants you to see. But because you see it your mind wants to believe its real because you want to believe the magician. With all the laws in Torah there is not one law addressing 2 entities that we are to consider G-d. There is not one instance of G-d speaking in which he identifies himself any differently. And when the Father spoke in the NT “this is my beloved son” there is absolutely no treatment, in the writing, making it understood that this was a new speaker. In simple language, the Scriptures were never written to give you the idea of more than one G-d, and really not just more than one G-d but any entity other than the one going by the name YHWH. That name is specifically used in order to distinguish himself from all other false gods. Now the magician fools you by trying to distract you from normal conventions. Why do we have names at all? Do we not have names in order to distinguish ourselves from the person standing next to us? Did Adam not name the animals to distinguish them from each other? But for some reason people want to believe that G-d is the only one who has never had or at least revealed a personal name. And so because the magician said this name was shared, like idiots we believed and after then could only guess at who was talking because there is no distinction of the speaker beyond the name and title of G-d. What the magician suggests to you is that there are 2 or 3 which both have this same name and position. But that would make using that name and title to distinguish who the speaker is has no meaning and is utterly useless and futile. The Scriptures do not say what the magician says. The magician only suspends your disbelief and sets out in order to make something the bible doesn’t say sound true.

It’s like this. And I want you to really put your thinking cap on and consider this carefully. Let’s say I have an algebraic expression that goes like this:

2A + 3 = 9
You know that A = 3 because you know the outcome. But what if you don’t know the outcome. What if all I tell you is 2A + 3? A could be anything. It’s a variable. What happens in the deception is that the deceiver tricks you into thinking you know the result. Believing that you already know the result you then fill in the equation with numbers that will make it work out to the result you’ve been told. Then what happens is that the magician stops telling you the result is 9 and starts saying A = 3. I’m going to assume you’re smart enough to understand why. See by shifting focus away from the result, which he made up, and convincing people that A = 3. The method used to get to the result and the result itself are both a deception of the magician. But…. One supports the other. You’re more likely to believe A=3 if you have bought into the result being 9. Likewise, you will more likely believe the result is 9 if you believe that A=3.

Understand? You’re telling me 2 things. You’re telling me that the result of your interpretation is 2 gods. At the same time you’re trying to convince me that all the steps taken to get there are biblical. There is a “+3” in the equation. There is something KNOWN about the equation that gives us some clue about the result. As long as A is not a negative number the result cannot be less than 3. Likewise, according to scripture there cannot be more than one G-d. That is according to scripture. If you believe the magician he can distract you from all the scriptures that prove this and focus your attention on things that can be misunderstood. You should be able to prove there are 2 gods without using the NT at all. Why? Because you are suggesting that there were 2 gods PRIOR to the NT. Therefore, the concept and proof must have existed for those living prior to the NT to know. However, your argument only comes from the NT. This tells me that the possibility only comes from an exploitable area of the bible that allows for confusion but ONLY IF… those who are confused are not already well versed in the Scriptures. No matter how much you may read the Scriptures now or how much your teacher now reads, if your primary exposure was first to the NT then your understanding is not necessarily built on the Scriptures. I’m not saying this to beat up on your or embarrass you. You are using the NT in order to prove something fundamental to the OT. The fact that you see nothing wrong with this suggests exactly the point I’m making. If your understanding was based on the Scriptures (Tanakh), your first and only needed proof would come from the Tanakh. I already know its not there because I spent a lot of time looking for it. In every single debate I have over this issue people always disregard the TORAH and immediately try to start breaking things down out of the NT. They cannot discuss the issue based on the law. They cannot discuss the law at all on this issue because they know there’s nothing there that supports them. I can discuss the law all day about the issue because the law says numerous times that we are not to have other gods. No exceptions were ever made. No explanation of who else might be a god too was ever included. But because the magician doesn’t rely on facts and doesn’t go looking for things to prove his magic wrong, people tend not to focus on the things that provide evidence they are wrong for believing the magician. Instead, they use as evidence, those things which suspended their disbelief, believing it will work the same on you as well.
Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in the form of G-d, thought it not robbery to be equal with G-d:

vs.

Psalms 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto YHWH? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto YHWH? 7 G-d is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. 8 O YHWH G-d of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee? 9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them. 10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm. 11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.



Is this a contradiction or does the first verse simply mean something different that doesn't conflict with the second?
I understand that from reading your posts above, you do not read the Book for what it says, but as long as you acknowledge the commandments, you are ok with me.
The problem, my friend, is that I do understand the scriptures. I understand them well enough, in fact, that I understand how they can appear to say different things based on your perception. When you do not believe that you are INTERPRETING scripture, but rather simply reading what it says, you are basically closing your mind to any interpretation outside of your own perception. The key is not to RELY on your own perception. You don't seem to be able to respond to the points I've made. Still, you hold onto your belief. Is it really that important to your spiritual identity that you can't even question or challenge it?

Showing that we dealt with the Father is EASY. I can be done in one text.

Jeremiah 31:9 - They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

If Yeshua had introduced the idea of "the Father" ONLY then would your position hold any weight. How so you may wonder? Because if they have only dealt with Yeshua then who else would have taught them about the Father prior to the gospels? But we NEVER see any speaker in the scriptures, claiming to be G-d, plus saying that there is another being called the Father. Instead, the speaker identifies HIMSELF as "father to Yisra'el". If this was Yeshua speaking then HE would have to be "the Father".

RIGHT??

But "the Father" is never thought of as "the Father of Yeshua" or "the Father of G-d the son" before or after the NT. If it was then why would those who did not believe Yeshua at all still believe that they had one G-d who was also their father?

John 8:41 - Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even G-d.

Now if this was wrong and there are 2 fathers then why does Yeshua say:

Matthew 23:9 - And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

one is our father. So who is it? Is it Yeshua? Or is it Yeshua's father? Is it possible that Yisra'el has a father but this father also has a father? That would be more supportive of your theory. However.... that's not what we read.

John 20:17 - Yeshua saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my G-d, and your G-d.

If he was "our father" he would not be able to say that "one is your Father" and that his Father is also our Father. Do you understand? That would be 2 fathers which would be a contradiction. And we are specifically told that his Father is our Father so the first position of father is taken and must exclude Yeshua. Understand? Again.... THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. Am I making this stuff up? Now if we then know that Yeshua's Father is also OUR Father (which art in heaven...) then we also know who the pharisees were talking about in John 8. More importantly, we know who it was that was speaking in Jeremiah 31. IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN YESHUA!

Again. UNDERSTAND THIS. It could NOT have been Yeshua because he called himself our Father and Yeshua said the ONLY Father is also his Father. So that EXCLUDES him from having that title and position. Simple? I think so. That's why Ephesians 4 says...

Ephesians 4:6 - One G-d and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


This one Father is also our ONE G-d. Anything else is a violation of the first commandment of Torah.


Shalom
If no man has seen "God" at any time then whoever Abraham saw could not have been "God". You can't say man hasn't seen "God" and then turn around and say who they saw was "Jesus" or Yeshua and then say Yeshua is "God". If Yeshua was "God" then there is no way he could have been seen because the text does not say that the Father has never been seen at any time. It says "God".
Zealot,

John 6:46,"not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father."
1 John 4:12 - No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

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