The Topic Of Prosperity

[Pastors Romero&Cherron Phillips]

What does prosperity mean to the Body of Christ.  Does it has any place in teaching, is it

for the body, should it be taught or should it be ignored.  What is biblical prosperity?

What does the bible has to say about this topic?

[Paul & Loretta]

Pastor Phillips, thanks for the invite to this discussion group. It is remarkable to see the wide side of this spectrum. Yes prosperity can be abused where teaching is concerned. Where each person stands they are having what soever they say. The fact that salvation is offered on the cross is never in doubt. The fact that healing is offered on the cross is sometimes in doubt and the fact that prosperity has been offered on the cross has mostly been in doubt. The blessing of all three is to EVERYBODY, but each is only ON the BELIEVER. That said if you don't believe it you wont have it, including salvation. Simply look to see if what you believe is happening to you, and you will be right. If you believe salvation is not included in redemption you will not have it. If you don't believe you can have healing from the cross you are right you wont. If you believe that 100 fold is not for you, you are right. The opposite is also true. No need to argue.

[Micah RaSun-Vann]

More and more I hear preachers say "I hear God saying "give $100, 50, 25" but they never heard God say minister to this one because her husband is committing adultery or "Sherry is losing her faith, Tom is gay, Phyllis needs deliverance from alcohol and drugs, David can't forgive his father. The list could go on. When these ministers do minister person its some vague thing that could apply to any one. It seems we hear specifically when it comes to money and vaguely when it comes to real ministry.

[Preacher]

preachers will only hear God speak through his word the bible...if they're hearing other voices saying its God...its not God..

[Preacher]

you said: If a person accepts Christ in their life and their spirit is born again or regenerated.


Correction: We don't accept Christ he accepts us,#2 accepting Christ is a work that we do, the bbile says we are not saved by our works,thus, accepting christ isn't a means to salvation..the churches teach this misunderstanding of scripture and have taught that for years...actually its offensive to think that we can do something or choose to become born again...we only become born again if we #1 are chosen for salvation from before the foundation of the world ..

Ephesians 1:3-6
His Word declares that in His love He predestined us "according to the good pleasure of His will." It does not say that He predestined us according to what He foresaw we would become, that He chose us because we were from a particular ethnic group, or that He picked us because of some mark of intelligence, character, looks, ability, or any other quality. Just as in Deuteronomy 7:7-8, His calling of us occurred out of the good pleasure of His will. He gave to us the same privileges and opportunities as He did to Jacob rather than Esau, and they were extended on the same basis—by God's election following the counsel of His own will and not by our works.

1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. ( Jesus )


1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

( here God teaches us that the Inharitance is salvation NOT MONEY as the false preachers teach.)

#2 we can only become saved by hearing Gods word, faith comes by hearing and that hearing of the word of God....

1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

this verse here speaks only of the elect of God that hear the word...

1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

before we are born again we are spiritually dead..thus our spirit cannot do anything or believe anything because we are dead...

Ephesians 2:1-10 1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your sins and the things you did against God. 2 Yes, in the past you lived the way the world lives, following the ruler of the evil powers that are above the earth. That same spirit is now working in those who refuse to obey God. 3 In the past all of us lived like them, trying to please our sinful selves and doing all the things our bodies and minds wanted. We should have suffered God's anger because of the way we were. We were the same as all other people. 4 But God's mercy is great, and he loved us very much. 5 Though we were spiritually dead because of the things we did against God, he gave us new life with Christ. You have been saved by God's grace.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Proverbs 14:2-12 He that walketh in his uprightness feareth the LORD: but he that is perverse in his ways despiseth him. In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them. Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox. A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies. A scorner seeketh wisdom, and findeth it not: but knowledge is easy unto him that understandeth. Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge. The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way: but the folly of fools is deceit. Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous there is favour. The heart knoweth his own bitterness; and a stranger doth not intermeddle with his joy. The house of the wicked shall be overthrown: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish. There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

[Preacher]

Exodus 32
King James Version
1And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.


this is the samething that people have done today, this is the prosprity gospel... make us a god of gold, for as for this Jesus, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him...

[Mrs. Denise Jones]

LOL...this sounds like the propaganda that I heard when I was growing up as a child....lol I remember the Five Percenters use to talk about God....them being gods and teaching the Arabic way of saying God...ALLAH....and had an explanaton for their beliefs...A-L-L-A-H...your Arm - Leg - Leg - Arm - Head.....oh, they believed this to the fulliest. I am 50 now, I wonder if there are any more or are you of those that have grown up and now twist the Word of God to your own understandings. Just like you twisted your last two sentences to explain the prosperity gospel. You are pointing fingers at them there preachers and teachers and three fingers are pointing back at you. Stop this nonsence, because it is not of God for us to use Gods Words to make YOUR points. Gods Word is for correction and to let you know what He would have us to do. Some people get it right away, some people God gives more time, because of their level of understanding and obedience. God is about LOVE...and He expects us to love one another like HE SO LOVE US, but it is not in us, because we judge one another and point fingers and figure we know more that another....ALL have sinned and fallen short....ALL, but one can choose not to live that way and INVITE Christ into their heart AND learn of Him and allow the spirit of God to correct them....not MAN. Beware that you offend no man, because those trappings can be a snare for yourself. The same mouth you put on others will be yours...Sometimes when those preachers (prosperity or any other talk) sometimes they speak life into a person and make them believe that they can have something in life and those people sometimes get benefits of just how they believe...so don't knock them. "Wait on the LORD and trust that HE will DRAW ALL MEN UNTO HIM, because He is that AWESOME. The children of Isreal have been DISOBEDIENT since the beginning of time as we know it from scriptures, but God has not destroyed them and God still Love them. So stop using and twisting Gods Word, because YOU don't like the way people are. Let Go and Let GOD!!!

So militant...lol....sometimes reading your posts make me think of the radical muslims that don't believe the way we believe and they want to kill....THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

In Love, Sis. Denise

[Preacher]

Reply by Pastor R. Phillips 3 hours ago
Greetings Preacher,

Yes you are correct in saying God chose or chooses us.

But we have the freedom of choice to accept the call of God.

In Chhrist
Pastor R. P


ANSWER:

Thats incorrect...we cannot resist the calling and choosing of God, that would make us greater than he...
The grace that God extends to the elect cannot be refused. God puts into the hearts of the elect an irresistible desire to turn to Him and accept His salvation. This desire is so overpowering that no one can refuse it."

Key word is the (elect)...

[Pastors Romero&Cherron Phillips]

Greetings preacher,

People refuse or resist the call of God on their lives daily and weekly.

God wants us to willingly choose and accept his call. It is there for anyone
who will.

Pastor R. Phillips

[Preacher]

you said God resist the call of God daily,that is not true nor biblical..

Simply put, the doctrine of irresistible grace refers to the biblical truth that whatever God decrees to happen will inevitably come to pass, even in the salvation of individuals. The Holy Spirit will work in the lives of the elect so that they inevitably will come to faith in Christ. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit never fails to bring to salvation those sinners whom He personally calls to Christ (John 6:37-40). At the heart of this doctrine is the answer to the question:

Why does one person believe the Gospel and another does not? Is it because one is smarter, has better reasoning capabilities, or possesses some other characteristic that allows them to realize the importance of the Gospel message? Or is it because (God does something unique in the lives of those that He saves?) :) If it is because of what the person who believes does or is, then in a sense they are responsible for their salvation and they have a reason to boast. However, if the difference is solely that God does something unique in the hearts and lives of those who believe in Him and are saved, then there is no ground for boasting and salvation is truly a gift of grace

Of course the biblical answer to these questions is that the Holy Spirit does do something unique in the hearts of those who are saved. The Bible tells us that God saves people “according to His mercy…through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” (Titus 3:5). In other words those who believe the Gospel and are saved do so because they have been transformed by the Holy Spirit.

Mnay are called but few are chosen means many people hear the gospel, but not all who hear it are elect for salvation,so in effect God himself is disallowing them to belive,thus still it is all his handy work..
John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

Healing in this verse means salvation, total healing,this is what the bible always ultimately points to when speaking of healing..

[Bishop Derrick Day]

This doctrine of divine election reduces God from Father to puppeteer. If some are born to salvation and others to perdition, why bother with evangelizing? No one, and I mean NO ONE has been able to satisfactorily answer this.

EVERY man, woman, or child has a call of God on their lives. The fact is, some accept it while others reject it.

[Preacher]

Man can make up any excuse they want but the bible still says what it says..

Romans 8:30
And those he PREDESTAINED, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's ELECT and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--

Mark 13:20
If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the ELECT, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them.


Mark 13:27
And he will send his angels and gather his ELECT from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

1 Peter 1:1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God's ELECT, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia,


Matthew 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the ELECT those days will be cut short.


Luke 18:7 now, will not God bring about justice for His ELECT who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?

ELECT: select, by impl. favorite
Original Word: ἐκλεκτός
Transliteration: eklektos
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-lek-tos')
Short Definition: chosen

Word Origin
from eklegó
Definition
select, by impl. favorite
NASB Word Usage
choice (2), choice man (1), chosen (1), chosen (9), chosen one (1), elect (8).

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

heres another verse,you said election makes God a puppeteer,in a way he is...a puppeteer causes the puppet to do and say what he wants it to do and say KEY WORD ( CAUSES )

Jeremiah 31:9
They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them:( I will cause ) them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn

Numbers 8:7
And thus ( shalt thou ) do unto them, to cleanse them: Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and ( let them ) shave all their flesh, and( let them ) wash their clothes, and so make themselves clean


Ezekiel 36
22Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
( I do not this for your sakes), O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24(For I will take you from among the heathen,) and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25Then ( will I ) sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, ( will I cleanse you ). 26A new heart also ( will I give you), and a new spirit( will I ) put within you: ( and I ) will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, ( and I wil l) give you an heart of flesh. 27( And I will ) put my spirit within you,( and cause ) you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Cause: Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language

1. That which produces or effects a result; that from which anything proceeds, and without which it would not exist.

2. (v.) That which is the occasion of an action or state; ground; reason; motive; as, cause for rejoicing.

Cause:Strongs
do, make
Original Word: עָשָׂה
Transliteration: asah
Phonetic Spelling: (aw-saw')
Short Definition: accomplish

accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow,
A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application (as follows) -- accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, X certainly, have the charge of, commit

Ezekiel 36:33 33Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities( I will also cause ) you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and ( I will do it. )

God does all the work of saving and keeping because we can't...