What does prosperity mean to the Body of Christ.  Does it has any place in teaching, is it

for the body, should it be taught or should it be ignored.  What is biblical prosperity?

What does the bible has to say about this topic?

Views: 992

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Pastor Sweet,
The tradition I speak of is the tradition of seminaries and denominations. Many of them, because they subscribe to the notion of the impoverished Jesus, teach that there is piety in lack. Similarly, because many such schools are cessationist in doctrine, they proffer the notion that physical suffering is a harbinger of godliness. Because these schools produce scholars and expounders who are spiritually bound, these teachers of the Word are producing spiritually bound fruit.

You say you placed every word into context. You did, indeed; the context of every reformed theological thought. But the way you present it, the Word is only relevant to those who were being addressed and the situations that they were in. By your definition, scriptures such as 3 John 2, John 10:10, and others do not speak to contemporary believers.

I am filled with compassion regarding your children. As a father, I cannot begin to fathom your emotions there. I am filled with joy, though, because you rightly know that you will see them in eternity.

Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, the principles of Biblical prosperity are actively manifested in your life. If they are not, you are saying that your career, your home, and other myriad blessings are merely the result of your work. You rightly say it is due to God, but God WILL NOT bless you apart from your willingness to serve Him and your obedience to His Word. And your stewardship, I'm certain, is based on Biblical -- not worldly -- principles.

You criticize my hermeneutics and exegesis, Yet you have danced around my question without answering it directly. Therefore, in love, I ask it again, Does God desire for His children to prosper? Or, is it His will for His children to live in sickness and lack?

Out of respect for the Spirit of the Lord within you and your scholarship, I will read the Books you've recommended. Fair warning though, if it is the old-line Calvinist/Reformed dogma that keeps a burdensome yoke on the Body of Christ, I will have to politely reject them.

We've traded jabs on doctrine and education but the fundamental question of this thread remains. I beseech you for an answer.

Blessed Regards,
Pastor Day
With all due respect brother Day,

I have answered you question more than once the problem is it is birth out of a bad hermeneutics. But once again I will try to provide you with insight. The way that you have defined prosperity is not fond in the Biblical Record. There is your answer! If that does not work for you that let me say it like this NO, based on the way that you have defined prosperity!!!!! There I hope that you are clear on that.

Now to your other points, for you to say that you desire an education from a Bible College or Seminary is something to be admired and I hope that you would go for it. But to then call that type of training traditional and to put down denominations because they don’t hold to your misinterpretation of Scripture is an oxymoron at best.

You claim that it is because “Because these schools produce scholars and expounders who are spiritually bound, these teachers of the Word are producing spiritually bound fruit.”
Let us check that out with history.

Fact many of the nation’s hospitals were started by these very denominations
Fact these same denominations also open hospitals in other nations outside the USA.
Fact these same denominations have disaster relief teams that work all over the world.
And the list goes on. So that means the only way that you will peruse that type of training is at a school that teaches you view, I am very sad to say that they do exist you should look in to ORU. They teach that stuff there.

Next you try to make me a believer in this false teaching by saying “Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not…” The problem as you have stated is that “yes I’m a cessationist!”For very good reasons, but what does that have to do with this false teaching about Jesus?
Also I’m not a reformed Theologian in my study of Scripture I’m and will be a “Pre Mill Dispensationalist” in my hermeneutics, that means that I take a Historical Grammatical Literal approach to studying the text.
Pastor Sweet,
Thank you for answering the question...sort of. It appears you do not believe it is God's will for the believer to prosper and be in health.

I guess we should simply depend upon the world's system for our living and the knowledge of men for our health.

For the record, I never said I wanted to go to any traditional seminary. What I said is I would like to obtain training in reading Hebrew and Greek. My personal belief is that traditional seminary callouses the heart of many believers and causes them to turn to the knowledge of men instead of the wisdom of God.

I stand by my statement regarding spiritual bondage. You correctly cite that the nation's Christian denominations have done many great things, including the examples of hospitals and disaster relief. To that, I retort, I never said they were fruitless; I said their fruit is spiritually bound.

For example, most of the hospitals started by the nation's denominations are now in the hands of privateers who are willing to heal if the profit margin is satisfactory.

I am not trying to "make a believer" out of anyone. I simply re-present Jesus and teach the Word of God such that the yoke of a sinful life is destroyed and that the yoke of sin is not traded for the yoke of religion. I teach that God is about relationship, not religion, and that a God who wants a parent-child relationship with you certainly has your well-being at heart!

Now, as to "false teaching about Jesus," I ask, false teaching according to whom? Now I will not suggest what you're teaching is false, rather it is bound in the graveclothes of religious thinking. Your definition of false teaching is framed by first by your education and then by your experience. But if your education hardens your heart, then you will not experience the supernatural manifestation of God's power.

Your allusion to the "Historical Grammatical Literal" approach to study leads me to believe that you are well-studied in the Logos of the Word but have yet to experience the Rhema of the Word.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have enjoyed this discourse; it has been quite, well, enlightening.

Blessed Regards,
Pastor Day
Where do I start?

I guess here I misunderstood you in the desire to learn just Hebrew and Greek. I think that will serve only to confuse you more. I mean if you only learn a language and not let’s say Systematic and Biblical theology as well as Church History and a host of other subjects it will only do more harm to the Body of Christ than you do now.

For you say that “I stand by my statement regarding spiritual bondage.” Shows that you’re the one in bondage to a false gospel! You ask false teaching according to whom? Not me I’m not that good! But when you look at 2000 years of church history (which you call tradition) this is a new subject and the Bible record knows nothing of what you teach.

You’re right that my experiences and my education frame what I know to be false teaching. I understand the rhema just find I know God’s power and see it every time a sinner turns to Jesus Christ as savior and Lord.

Be blessed my friend till our next discussion, I may just start it my self.....
Pastor Sweet,
I am in no way confused although you think I am. I also find it interesting that teaching liberty to the captives is somehow harmful to the Body of Christ.

Contrary to your opinion, I am not in bondage to anything. Jesus has set me free! I am free from sin and all its side effects -- fear, hatred, sickness, and lack, just to name a few.

As for 2000 years of church history -- well, some of it is good and some of it is not. For example, women in the pulpit. There's an old chestnut born of good ol' fashioned sexism. How about all that church history that relegated those of African descent to second-class humanity? How about the nasty business of the crusades? Or the incessant bickering between Catholics and Protestants? What about the discord that led to the ever-increasing numbers of denominations and factions?

You speak of truth -- whose truth? The Presbyterian truth? The Baptist truth? The Methodist, Church of God, Church of God in Christ, Apostolic, et al truth? The DTS truth, the Moody truth, the ORU truth? There is but one truth and that is the living, indestructible, immutable Word of God.

How about the greater works Jesus said we'd do in John 14:12? Where's the healing? Where's the raising of the dead? Where is the preaching of the Gospel to the poor? I'll answer this for you -- It's not taught as being available for the contemporary believer.

I do not need a course in systemic theology to read and interpret the Bible. All I need is the Holy Spirit! Man can impart knowledge but only God can impart revelation. If you must have a seminary education to rightly divide the Word, then those of us without it are hopelessly lost. God forbid! I am saved because I have accepted Jesus as my LORD as well as my Savior!

This is what concerns me most about the product of traditional theological seminaries. There is a general sense of superiority and condescension that emanates from them concerning the unwashed masses. No matter what may be revealed to the uneducated, they will simply never measure up to the stature of the seminary graduate. This smacks of the same attitude of the Pharisees, whom the Lord spoke "woes" to.

I know by the Spirit of God that this is not what is in your heart, nonetheless this is what is in your conversation.

And, finally, you are correct that God's power is manifest every time a soul is won for Christ! Praise God, there is at least one thing we agree on! Stay Blessed, my Brother!

Blessed Regards,
Pastor Day
Wow! This when from us discussing the truth of (or lack there of) prosperity, to you judging the Historicity of both Bible Colleges and Seminaries.

Brother, Day
The truth is the truth and the fact are just that the facts. You’re right we are free from sin and its effects, fear, hatred. As far as sickness and lack man please scriptures? And just because there are parts of the churches history that are very bad, I submit that is impart due to a bad hermeneutic.

I see no sexism in the church nor have I found it is the text of scripture.
As for the groups and schools you mention the Presbyterians, the Baptist the Methodist, all have their good point as well as their bad one, I will be the first to point them out.

As for DTS, Moody Bible, and they teach one truth and that is the living, indestructible, immutable Word of God. ORU has some very good point at its school but I am not Charismatic and I understand the doctrinal differences between charismatics and non-charismatics in the light of Scripture.

To call those who have labored long and hard to study the scriptures in college or seminary traditional or to equate us to the Pharisees is a coupe out to the fact that the truth of God word has been missed by some not all in your camp.

You’re right when you say that some seminary students and graduates have an attitude of superiority to others not just the uneducated. I try not to take that tone. I have also come to know that when some people in your camp quote a text and in the rebuff the context is given those in your camp result to name calling and then you guys take that spiritual tone.

You know what I mean “Oh that is only because you’re not spirit fill, and stuff like that. I find it very funny that some say I want to know the Bible in Hebrew and Greek and have not mastered the English.
Man help me understand that!

Greeting:

Is prosperity only money? III John 1:2 "Beloved,I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health even as thy soul prospereth". A rich man can be dieding from cancer with money in the bank,but is poor lacking good health. To be poor is lacking something. Not just money;poor is a curse not a blessing. Being poor is not from God,we are the seed of Abraham,and joint heirs of Christ. Jesus, had a treasurer, name Judas who handle all the money. It's hard too believe a poor man had a treasurer. In the Book of the Gospel of John 10:10b "I am come that they might have life,and that they might have it more abundantly" (zoe)gk abundant, prossperity. That is a promise from the Lord. We can have charis(favor)gk with the Lord. Psalms 23 "The Lord is my shepherd;I shall not want(lack,poor). Psalm 112 ":2,3 His seed shall be mighty upon earth;the generation of the upright shall be blessed." (v2) Wealth and riches shall be in his house;and his righteousness endureth for ever". These are a few examples of the blessing of the believers who are walking not after the flesh,but after the Spirit. Please just one more point of reference in the Book Of Revelation 3:14,22 the church  of Laodicea.  They were rich with increased with goods and need of nothing. The church was miserable and poor,blind,and naked. I can not be a blessing to the Body of Christ if I lack. My Father is rich,and so am I !  Amen...

 

Wow!!! Are you for real...I have to head in to a meeting but when I come out have you Bible ready!
I PETER 3:15

Thanks for the use of 1 Peter 3:15 I live by that verse.

So where do I start, Oh I know with 3 John

As I have stated before you (meaning any person that ties to use this passage to prove the truth of Prosperity Theology) cannot use this passage to make your point….

Why you ask? It is simple this is not the meaning of the text. John is writing to Gaius

3Jn 1 “The elder to the beloved Gaius, whom I clove in truth. 2 Beloved [this is Gaius], I pray that in all respects you [Gaius] may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.

You can’t change the fact that this was written to Gaius not you and I.

So what does it mean, the point is that John is concerned about Gaius physical well-being.  We are not sure if he [Gaius] is ill or was having some business dealings that are going well for him! In any case this letter is written as a personal corresponds between the two and God allows us to see one side of their communication. Also the word prosper/prospers is the Greek word (euodoo) and it means “go well” or “succeed” (see Romans 1:10; 1 Cor. 16:2) it has nothing to do the prosperity gospel!

Next

The Gospel of John in chapter 10 verse 10 you write “(zoe)gk abundant, prosperity.” The context of this passage is John use a play on words from chapter 1. Were his calls Jesus life (v.4b) and the life was the light of men (v.4c). So in this chapter John is again saying that Jesus is life meaning salvation.

Greetings Pastor Sweet,

 

Everything you are bringing to light says God wants you to prosper physically, spiritually, financially etc... Its only Gospel - good news.

You are definately a student of the bible.  But you leave no room for application to life here and now according to the Bible.  As a wise man once said there is nothing new under the sun.

 

In Christ

 

Brother Pastor,

With all due respect! What the text says and means is in no way what you write when you say “God wants you to prosper physically, spiritually, financially etc... Its only Gospel - good news.”

The problem with this line of thinking is it is void of any method of real study. It sound like all of you just believe this non-sense just because you like it.

 I have a question what method of hermeneutics do you all use that leds to this understanding?

The Good news found from Genesis to Revelation is that the promised seed (Gen 3:15) is the messiah (Jesus) is the seed. God cares about His children and yes some have financially, and physically been blessed but what about the faithful believer that lives in poverty, do you really think that they have less faith than you?

RSS

© 2024   Created by Raliegh Jones Jr..   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service