Who is the REAL God of the Old Testament? Part 1

Who is the God of the Old Testament?


Why is it so important that we know who the God of the Old Testament is? After all, it seems quite clear that God the Father is what was taught to us as the God of the Old Testament, right? Well, let’s search to see if that is really what God‘s Holy scriptures says!



Has Anyone seen God the Father?

St. John 1: 18 – No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared him.

St. John 5: 37 – And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

St. John 6: 46 – Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Notice the distinction that is made in the above verses? Both Jesus and the apostle John referred to God as, God the Father. According to the scriptures, NO MAN HAS SEEN NOR HEARD GOD THE FATHER AT ANY TIME. let’s remember who made (2) of those statements…..JESUS!!! Now let’s search the scriptures of the OT.


This CAN NOT be the Father….so who is it?

Exd 24: 9 – 11. 9. Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:

10. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exd 33: 11 – And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Exd 33: 23 – And I will take mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.


Num 12: 6-8. 6. And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all my house.

8. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold:


Now after reading these scriptures it seems very evident that, not only did Moses see and hear the voice of the God of Israel, but at least seventy-three people saw and heard him.

Let’s review:

In St. John we found that no man has seen God the Father, heard his voice nor seen his shape at anytime.

In Exodus and Numbers we found that Moses and at least seventy other elders saw and eat with the God of Isreal.

So what do we have here? Jesus himself said, no man has seen God the Father and the Old Testament says that Moses and at least seventy elders saw God. Could this be a contradiction? God forbid! Let’s continue to search the scriptures for the truth.



Searching for the ‘God’ of the OT

Now most of us have been taught that Jesus and God the Father are both Gods, but have you ever read it for yourself in the bible? Can you prove it through the scriptures?

Let’s start in the book of Philippians (NT) 2: 5-8. Here, Paul is talking to the Philippians and telling them to have the same mind as Christ has.

Phil 2:5-8. 5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

So here we have Paul telling us that Jesus, a God, found it not wrong to be equal with God, obviously God the Father. The reason I can say that is because Jesus is the one that became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Now let’s go to St. John (NT) to get a better understanding of these two (2) Gods. Yes….these TWO Gods!!!!!

St. John 1:1-4,14 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

2. The same was in the beginning with God.

3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4. In him was life; and the life was the life of men.

14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So now after reading in St. John we can understand why the statement in Philippians is true.

Jesus (The Word) did not think it wrong to be equal to God because, according to St. John1:1, he was God.

And how do I know that the Word is Jesus Christ? Because verse 14 tells us that “, the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.” And the Word, in St. John, is the same person that, “.,became obedient unto the death, even the death of the cross.” in Phil 2:8.

Now there was one thing I hope you did not miss. Who was it that made everything that was made? That’s right! It was the Word. And who is the Word? Jesus Christ. Now let’s go to Colossians (NT) to confirm this.

In this book we have Paul addressing the Colossians and encouraging them to stay strong in the faith, but not before letting them know whom it is that they should be thanking:

Col1:12-17 12. Giving thanks to the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13. Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature:

16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.

17. And he is above all things, and by him all things consist.

So it is through, “…his dear SON…”, “…ALL things were created….” Need more proof?

Here are two more scriptures:

Hebrews (1:1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.

Ephesians (3:9) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Obviously Paul is telling the listeners the exact same thing St John said. And what he is saying is that the person that we have come to know as the Word, or Jesus Christ, is the one that created everything. Now this is very important. Let’s reason together for a moment and review the facts we’ve found in the scriptures.

We know that Jesus Christ is God and found it not robbery to be equal to God the Father. (NT) Phil 2:6.

We know that Jesus humbled himself and became obedient unto the death of the cross. (NT) Phil 2:8.

We know that the Word (Jesus Christ) was God, was made flesh and dwelt among us. (NT) St. John 1: 1 & 14.

And finally we know that the Word made everything that was made. “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in the earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. (NT) Col 12:16.

Now at this point it should be quite clear as to what these scriptures are saying, but just incase you are not following them here it is in a nutshell:

Jesus Christ, also known as the Word, created everything that was created and he is a GOD!!

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Did you read Part 2?
Eccl,

You have great intentions in bringing Yahweh's truth to the world. The doctrine of the deity of Yeshua is a touchy one. I am of the respectable opinion that Yeshua indeed is Yahweh, but not in the sense that Christianity has thrown around for the past 1900 years. Christians believe that Yeshua is Yahweh, to the point where Yeshua himself is the father. How can Yeshua be the father of himself?

Christians also believe that Yahweh morphed/turned into flesh. But, is that what scripture really says? I think not. You see, Yeshua, the davar of Yahweh, was SENT to this earth. John 1:14 says,"Kai ho logos became sarx(and the word became flesh)." It was not Yahweh that became flesh in the sense of Christianity, rather, his word became flesh.

You say,"what a minute, but verse 1 says,"Kai theos nv ho logos(and God was the word)." Its so true that the scriptures says that, but what does that really mean? It can only mean that this very word of Yahweh is his divine expression, which expresses the nature and being of Yahweh, to when you see this word in the flesh, indeed, it is Yahweh. Hebrews 1:1-3 attest to this very fact. Its consistent with the rest of scripture.

Another fact is that Yahweh is spirit, and scripture never stated that he morphed/turned into flesh, rather, he SENT his word, and his word became flesh. Yahweh's divine expression reveals exactly who he is. Yeshua told Phillip,"if you have seen me, you have seen the father." Why did Yeshua say this? Johhn 1:1-3 & Hebrews 1:1-3 shows us... He is the exact imprint of his nature--- his divine expression.
The bottom line, according to the Word of God, is this;

Jesus is a God!

And God the Father is a God!

And why can I say this? Because that's what is says in God's Holy word. Let's read it:

Phil.2:6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

There are (2) and ONLY (2) in the Godhead, the one that came and died for us, which, according to Him is the ONLY God man has EVER dealt with. And there is God the Father that no man has EVER seen;

St. John 5: 37 – And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

St. John 6: 46 – Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

I can say for a fact there MUST be two because of the following;

Exd 24: 9 – 11. 9. Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:

10. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Now Jesus said NO man has EVER seen God, and yet we have at least 70 people of the OT that SAW and had a meal with God.

Now did Jesus LIE!!!!
Eccl,

You said Yeshua is "a God", and that Yahweh is "a God". Logic follows that you are promoting two separate Gods, because you inserted the indefinite article. Thats heresey brother. Yeshua did not lie, its just that you are misunderstanding.
I am only stating what the Holy scripture is saying. Did you read the scriptures I provided? Let's read them again;


St. John 1: 18 – No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared him.

St. John 5: 37 – And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

St. John 6: 46 – Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Now these scriptures (..no man..), (..at any time..) and (..neither heard his voice..nor seen his shape.) seem very absolute. They do not appear to be used figuratively. So we can only take them to mean just what they say. No man has seen God the Father, heard his voice nor seen his shape at any time. And let’s not forget who made (2) of those quotes!

Now let's go back to the OT:

Exd 24: 9 – 11. 9. Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:

10. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

So either these people of the OT saw another GOD or Jesus LIED when He said NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN OR HEARD GOD!!

So which is it?
St. John 1: 18 – No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared him.

That is true. Only Yeshua has seen the father, and no other man.

St. John 5: 37 – And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Yeshua was not speaking universal here. This scripture is 100% directed at the Pharisees. They were such hypocrites, and hardened of heart, they could not perceive the voice of Yahweh. This flows with scripture because the Prophets themselves heard directly from Yahweh.

St. John 6: 46 – Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So true.

Now these scriptures (..no man..), (..at any time..) and (..neither heard his voice..nor seen his shape.) seem very absolute. They do not appear to be used figuratively. So we can only take them to mean just what they say. No man has seen God the Father, heard his voice nor seen his shape at any time. And let’s not forget who made (2) of those quotes!

You are manipulating the scriptures. It was the Pharisees that has not heard his voice, and not the people as whole.

Now let's go back to the OT:

Exd 24: 9 – 11. 9. Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:

10. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.

11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

So either these people of the OT saw another GOD or Jesus LIED when He said NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN OR HEARD GOD!!

So which is it?

I believe it was a hebraic concept used here. Moses said he saw Yahweh, but did he really see him? Yahweh said no man can see me and live. The bible also says no man has seen Yahweh at anytime, and this includes Moses. So, they was not seeing Yahweh's true form, but rather his glory.
And you say I'm manipulating the scriptures? How so?

Jesus said: "St. John 5:37 – And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

But you say, "Yeshua was not speaking universal here." I must ask, How do you know? Did Jesus SAY He was not speking to everyone that heard Him? No He did not!

The OT says that at least 70 people Saw God, eat with God, and could determine that God had Hands and feet;

10. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

But you say, "I believe..." Sorry, but "I believe" just does not cut it. I'm quoting scriptures and nothing else.

The scriptures say they could see "hands" AND "feet"!

But you say, "they was not seeing Yahweh's true form, but rather his glory."

Just what is the "Glory" of God?

I must ask, Just what is Jesus to you if NOT God? Because according to the following;

Phil 2:5-8. 5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus is EQUAL to God the Father!
And you say I'm manipulating the scriptures? How so?

Jesus said: "St. John 5:37 – And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

But you say, "Yeshua was not speaking universal here." I must ask, How do you know? Did Jesus SAY He was not speking to everyone that heard Him? No He did not!

Eccl, read the context, and you will see who he was speaking to exactly.

The OT says that at least 70 people Saw God, eat with God, and could determine that God had Hands and feet;

10. And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

But you say, "I believe..." Sorry, but "I believe" just does not cut it. I'm quoting scriptures and nothing else.

The scriptures say they could see "hands" AND "feet"!

But you say, "they was not seeing Yahweh's true form, but rather his glory."

Just what is the "Glory" of God?

I must ask, Just what is Jesus to you if NOT God? Because according to the following;

Phil 2:5-8. 5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus is EQUAL to God the Father!

Your failure is that you refuse to study, and see many literary devices. If scriptures say no man has seen Yahweh at any time, then when Moses, and many clam to have seen him, who were they seeing? It was a manifestation.
Just who is sitting on the right hand of God now?

Who was it that Jesus prayed to before His death?

When David said the following;
Mark.12
[36] For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

just who was David's Lord?

Who are these TWO beings
Rev.21
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

The bible speaks nothing but (2) Gods. Jesus, the God that made us and died for us. And God the Father that NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN!!!
Just who is sitting on the right hand of God now?

Yeshua

Who was it that Jesus prayed to before His death?

Yahweh the father.

When David said the following;
Mark.12
[36] For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

just who was David's Lord?

To my current understanding, it says," Yahweh said to my adonai." This is prophetic.

Who are these TWO beings
Rev.21
[22] And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

The Lord God Almighty is Yahweh himself, and the Lamb is Yeshua.

The bible speaks nothing but (2) Gods. Jesus, the God that made us and died for us. And God the Father that NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN!!!

Yahweh says you can have no other gods before or after me. Then he said there is NO other gods before or after me. Its heresey to say that scriptures teach 2 separate God's. That contradicts Torah.
And you are correct. No man has seen God the Father! Who they saw was Jesus!

You use words like, "Glory" and "It was a manifestation." Just what are they? Are the meanings of these words in Gods Holy scriptures? Because if they are please direct me to the Book, Chap. and verse that explains them

Did you bother to read Part 2 of this lesson?
Eccl,

No one in Torah & Prophets claim they saw Yeshua. The whole point here is that you're claiming that 2 gods exist, but that is heresey.

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