The Deity Of Jesus Debate.... Who Is This Jesus?

[James Pierce]

Lets discuss....

[Superintendent Elijah Marshall]

Jesus was God in the flesh; the One True God in human flesh... The Son of God according to humanity.. the visible representation of God on Earth.. not the Son of God according to the spirit.. because there is only One Spirit (Ephesians 4:6).. The Son of God, meaning He came forth from God... He as the God-man.. Fully God, and fully man. He was in Heaven on His throne as a omni-present, omnipotent and omniscient (dont know if I spelled that rite -- forgive me if I did not)..Spirit, as the Father. And He was on Earth in a human body at the same time, this is proven in John 3:13, where Jesus said no one has ascended to heaven, except He that came from Heaven (Jesus), EVEN THE SON OF MAN (Jesus) which IS (present-tense) IN HEAVEN.. John 1:43-51.. where Philipp finds Nathaniel and tells him to "come see a man" (and Jesus was not physically there with Philipp when He went and found Nathaniel).. but when Nathaniel, comes to Jesus (where He physically is).. Jesus tells Nathaniel who he is, and when nathanael asks Jesus how does He know who He is, Jesus says, "Before Phillip called you, I saw you under the fig tree".. that couldnt be possible physically because Jesus was not THERE, He was somewhere else physically, but as God in the spirit, the One spirit, He saw Nathanael before Nathanael even showed up. Then John 14:6-7, Jesus plainly said that If you have seen Him, you have seen the Father because the fulness of the Godhead (all of God) is In HIM (Colossians 2:9). Jesus is also the the Holy Ghost, because in John 14:18, He says He will not leave us comfortless, HE will come to us... Romans 8:9, refers to the ONE spirit, as the Spirit of CHRIST... All of God is in Christ!!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

OK, before I begin on this, I want people to state where they are coming from: Oneness doctrine, Trinity, Messianic, ect.

I believe as the Bible says who JESUS is (from the Trinity standpoint):

-GOD
-the Son of GOD
-the first born of all creation
-the Creator, not the created
-the Prince of Life
-the Almighty
-fully man; fully GOD

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Good starting point I believe from the viewpoint of the Trinity as well, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost

[James Pierce]

I come from Orthodox Messianic point of view:

Yashah is:

1) The son of YHWH
2) The words(wisdom, embodiedment, presence, divine expression) of YHWH

Yashah is not:

1) YHWH coming down turning into flesh
2) Fully YHWH in the sense of Christianity

[Superintendent Elijah Marshall]

I'm go save myself a headache with this one, and let ya'll continue.. because there's no way one entity can be three SEPERATE persons, and yet be one singular entity... That's the Trinity.. Then, the trinity says the Son is inferior to the Father.. How can the Son be Almighty and be inferior to anyone? Then, it says the Father isnt the Son, the Son isnt the Father, the Father and the Son isnt the Holy Ghost, but they're three distinct and seperate persons, but there's yet One God... What kind of balony teaching is that, when the Bible says there is only ONE spirit, and the ONE God we serve is that ONE spirit? And as far as the Father not coming down turning into the flesh... I didnt say the Father turned into flesh, the Father remained a spirit, and stayed on the throne, but dwelt within a human body... Jesus was the Son of God according to the flesh, but that didnt hinder Him from being the Father in the spirit... I proved that by the Scriptures I provided earlier... And the fact that Jesus is not fully God.. thats balony.. He is all God.. or not God at all.. He cant be half-God... And what is Oneness? I thought we all suppose to be in "Oneness".. Because's there's One God, One Spirit, One Lord, One Faith and One Baptism... And there's only One way to God.. and its through Jesus Christ

[Child of the Kingdom]

I am in agreement with what your point is but again, as you have stated, I will save myself the headache because I too do not believe there are 3 Gods. (trinity) There is but One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism. All of this is wrapped up in Jesus. Jesus is not inferior as some believe. When Jesus said My father is greater than I he was not saying that he is inferior. How can he be when they are one. The same. In Jesus dwelt the fullness of the Godhead Bodily.

[Della Morton]

Notice what Trevor wrote for trinitarian beliefs above : he did not include Everlasting Father.in Is.9:6

[Della Morton]

Trevors Reply:I believe as the Bible says who JESUS is (from the Trinity standpoint):

-GOD
-the Son of GOD
-the first born of all creation
-the Creator, not the created
-the Prince of Life
-the Almighty
-fully man; fully GOD

NOTE: His Own Words Contradict HIMSELF! He believes JESUS Is GOD, Jesus is the Son, The Creator,
The Almighty BUT YET DENIES JESUS IS THE FATHER!
Question Isn't The Father (Which is Spirit) became a man in the Flesh? God Incarnate? BUT YET DENYS JESUS IS THE FATHER(God Incarnate.)

I hope someone is taking notes here.

[Della Morton]

1 John 4:1-3 (King James Version)

1 John 4

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Ok Looking at these scriptures by A The Carnal Mind A False Minister with degrees that's High minded can Misinterpret the scriptures by Saying Yeah in verse 2 I believe Jesus Was A man also vs.3 therefore the person doesn't realize Who Jesus Really Is! The Scripture Says for instance in Verse two. It says:Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Now It Says KNOW YE THE SPIRIT! Most of us Agree that there is One God. ALSO WHEN WE ARE REFERRING TO GOD HE IS A SPIRIT. So when the carnal mind says yeah I believe Jesus Came in the Flesh (human Nature) We Don't Have two Gods or Persons in a God Head Because GOD IS ONE(Spirit.)He Can manifest himself in many different ways but is still one!
So by Denying That Jesus Christ is God (The Father since there's only one God) That has manifested himself in the flesh
It says they have the spirit of the Antichrist.

[Della Morton]

Jesus the One and Only God Lives

Jesus - Yeshua

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:31 (KJV) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

PEACE TO ALL IN THE WORLD WHOM LOVE AND HOPE IN GOD

FEAR NOT REJOICE! The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY JESUS YESHUA of Nazareth “The Promised Messiah” the Lamb of God LIVES!

All this he himself had prophesized through his own spirit

1 Peter 1:10-12 (KJV) 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

And by his Holy Spirit he prepared and formed for himself a body =

Isaiah 26:19 (KJV) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Luke 1:35 (KJV) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 2:21 (KJV) But he spake of the temple of his body.

Hebrews 10:5-7 (KJV) 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Galatians 4:4 (KJV) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Through which he spoke to us =

Deuteronomy 18:18 (KJV) I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (KJV) 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1 John 1:1-3 (KJV) 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Revealing to us his will and salvation =

John 1:18 (KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (KJV) 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This body is his Son (not another God but one in the same - the invisible God living inside a human/flesh/body) the Son of God =

Luke 1:35 (KJV) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matthew 1:18 (KJV) Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 1:20 (KJV) But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 1:1-4 (KJV) 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Named JESUS YESHUA =

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:31 (KJV) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Which means “God Saves”

Exodus 3:7-8 (KJV) 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

Isaiah 43:11 (KJV) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4 (KJV) Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matthew 1:21 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

He is the Temple of the Spirit of God

Zechariah 6:12 (KJV) And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Micah 3:1 (KJV) And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment?

John 2:21 (KJV) But he spake of the temple of his body.

Colossians 1:15 (KJV) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 1:19 (KJV) For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

This body that was in the form of sinful man he sacrificed for us

Romans 8:3 (KJV) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Philippians 2:5-11 (KJV) 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1:20 (KJV) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Hebrews 9:26-27 (KJV) 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Unto Death =

Psalms 22:16 (KJV) For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Isaiah 53:7 (KJV) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Luke 24:46 (KJV) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

1 Peter 3:18 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

To rise from death

Acts 10:39-40 (KJV) 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Romans 1:4 (KJV) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV) 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

To give LIFE to all those that believe in his name =

John 1:12 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 20:31 (KJV) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 4:11-12 (KJV) 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22 (KJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 John 5:13 (KJV) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

And when they heard =

Acts 2:37-38 (KJV) 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16 (KJV) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10:47 (KJV) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 19:5-6 (KJV) 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Ephesians 4:4-6 (KJV) 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

AMEN!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

OK then (I'm not as familiar with "Orthodox Messianic doctrine", or its grassroots, but I guess we'll see today wont we?!)

The deity of Christ was clearly stated and unclearly revealed:

John 1:1 says that HE is GOD. If you agree with the Apostles, then ok. Isaiah 7:14 calls HIM Emanuel meaning "GOD with Us", and Isaiah 9:6 declares that HE is the Mighty GOD. He is not the FATHER as Oneness doctrine states, because HE Himself has said that YHWH is HIS FATHER. However, it was YHWH that declared in Hebrews 1 that JESUS is GOD.

[Superintendent Elijah Marshall]

In His Sonship, and as the Son of God, He wouldnt state that He was the Father, because as the Son of God He came to give us an example and a way to pattern our lives in obedience to Him... so who better to teach us how to serve God, but God himself.. In His Sonship, He wouldnt call Himself the Father, but He DID DO SO in John 14:6-8.. Now, before you go saying the Scripture dont say what it says right there in Jesus' words... In Revelation, John sees one throne, and ONE sitting on the throne.. now if Jesus is not the Father...then where is Jesus and the Holy Ghost?? Now every Trinitarian quotes Isaiah 9:6 and says that Jesus is the mighty God.. (very Good)... but then turns around says that Jesus isn't the Father.. but then goes to say Jesus is the mighty God?? There's only One God.. ONE... AND IN HIM.. IN CHRIST..dwells the FULNESS of the Godhead (Colossians 2:9).. ALL OF GOD is in Him! Now, if Jesus isnt the Father, but He is the mighty God.. then that makes 2 gods.. if u believe that the Father is God also.. OH YES IT DOES.. Scripture say Jesus is the mighty God.. and we know the Father is God.. but Jesus isnt the Father.. 2 gods!! Balony! "Oneness" doctrine... is not man-made.. it's Bible.