Church fathers?

[Joseph Gill]

In the holiness churches of old, the pastor and the church mother were styled as the spiritual parents of the congregation. This certainly was an idealized viewpoint--and reality didn't always match the ideal--but I think the first and second generations of the church would have called the pastor a "father-figure" for certain, and called either the church mother or the first lady a "mother-figure."

When in these days a woman pastors a church, who then fills the role of "father-figure" for the local church? Do female pastors ever appoint a "church father"? Is there any concerned about the male/female balance in their church leadership?

[Joseph Carey Jr.]

This is something I have been wondering too.. a father-figure in the church is needed to balance it all out or something will be missing. Just like in life, a mother is good to have, but a father is needed to balance it all out for a better result.

[Evangelist, LindaK P. ILonzo]

Praise our Lord,  and Saviour Jesus Christ; Ninety percent of our men are in prison, and ninety percent of our women are taking the responsibility of raising children, and working two jobs; Because our men are not strong enough to fight off the trickster, and ending up in prison, or worst.

[newview]

The church is moving toward NO FATHERS or MOTHERS ---> more of a NON GENDER head figure.

[Joseph Gill]

Can you explain what you mean by "non gender"? Do you mean androgenous leaders?

[newview]

"...Do you mean androgenous leaders?"

Thats what the spirit of this age would like.

There is a reason there are women and men and they have their spiritual roles.
The world is hastening to erase them and the church is running full steam right behind them.

The world is the light to the church :)

[Joseph Gill]

I fear you are right.

[Evangelist, LindaK P. ILonzo]

Praise our Lord Jesus Christ; Gay men, and women are adopting, and raising our children, if they don't have any of their own.

Remember Revelation 12th chaper; The angels told John to write in the book, and tell us, woe unto the earth, satan is gone after the women, and her seed. When will you get it? look around, go to the mall's, check out all the gay children we have now, compared to just ten years ago.

[Toni]

According to Paul, there were many teachers but not many who would sacrifice as a father would. I'm not gonna deal with any traditions of any specific demoninations because the bible does not endorse denominationalism.

Biblically, there are mothers in zion and there are also spiritual fathers. These men and women are not "appointed" per se (well in some churches they may be). Spiritual mothers and fathers have been anointed by the Holy Spirit vs being appointed by man. Their gifts make room for them (if you believe the scripture - I mean no offense). Chronological age is no instant qualifier for spiritual fatherhood or motherhood.


But Job cautions that "days should speak and years should teach wisdom but the inspiration of the Almighty gives wisdom... great [old] men are not always wise neither do the aged understand judgment" Job 32:7-9.

The scriptural way is that older [i.e. the more spiritually mature] women and men teach and impart to the younger women and men: Ruth had Naomi, Mary had Elizabeth, Esther had Mordecai. Who did the prophetess Deborah have other than her husband and a multitide of counselors in her military leaders? Oh yeah she had the fearless young Jael too. And Deborah was called a "mother in Israel" Judges 5: 7.

The scriptural way is that when an anointed leader had something God had imparted to him, only then did he have something to impart to the younger generation. Elijah is one example; Mordecai is another. To answer your question "are there any concerned about the male/female balance in church leadership" these bodies in which our spirit man is clothed are anatomically "male" and "female" and maybe that is for purposes of procreation on earth. As far as our spirit man goes - and ditto for heaven - there is neither male nor female. Now I dont know everything in scripture and so it is possible maybe likely that I've overlooked something the bible says about the male/female balance in church leadership. Are there other scriptures you can share to enlighten? Otherwise, this is a great discussion that raises an issue about a certain mindset that church leadership is pressed to address in a scriptural way. Not a denominational way. Also lets not forget one of father Gods names is El Shaddai, is the "many breasted one". A hungry man will eat every time; a man that is not so hungry may turn up his nose and pass on the meal because he doesnt like the serving dish.

[Joseph Gill]

Now I dont know everything in scripture and so it is possible maybe likely that I've overlooked something the bible says about the male/female balance in church leadership. Are there other scriptures you can share to enlighten?

You've already alluded to the scripture that assigns different teaching roles to leaders in the church. In Titus 2 the pastor's responsibility to teach "older men" and "older women" is clearly elucidated. But then the writer Paul explains that after Titus has instructed the older women, they can go forth and train the younger women how to live godly.

1You [Titus] must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
2Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.
3Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.
4Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children,
5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

So we see in this passage a male leader who was to instruct everyone (pastor Titus) and female surrogate leaders who were to give gender-specific instruction to younger women (the older women). My question really focuses on the modern concept of female pastorates: Do women pastors believe they need older men to give gender-specific instruction to the younger men in their congregations?

[Brother John]

What happened to Mat 23:9 "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven".
Just thinking aloud

[Joseph Gill]

Would you say Paul violated this teaching when he asserted that he had been a "father" to the Corinthian church?

For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. [1 Cor. 4:15]

I don't think so, because Jesus was criticizing how some people crave titles ("call no man your father upon the earth")... compare what he says about being called "Rabbi" in verse 8 and "teacher" in verse 10. Paul is speaking about playing the role of a father, not necessarily carrying a title. That is the sense in which I believe a church needs a father-figure.

[Brother John]

Well, like I said, I was just thinking aloud. However, lets be sincere with what we see today? Is it the Paul kind - father-servant, or that which Jesus cautioned against - the father-lord, that we see around today? Why are people "pushing" to be acknowledged as fathers? Its a very slim line between being a father and wanting the "title". Those who only crave the title do so because they believe they deserve it; in other words they believe they are fathers. None will surely admit they are only craving the title. And so how do we "help" them or correct those? Still thinking aloud. Bless you brother