Water baptism does not save.

[Preacher]

for those who believe water baptism is required for salvation why the thief on the cross did not need to be baptized to be saved. A common reply to that question is: “The thief on the cross was still under the Old Covenant and therefore not subject to this baptism. He was saved just like anyone else under the Old Covenant.” So, in essence, the same people who say the thief did not need to be baptized because he was “under the Old Covenant” will use John 3:5 as “proof” that baptism is necessary for salvation. They insist that Jesus is telling Nicodemus that he must be baptized to be saved, even though he too was under the Old Covenant. If the thief on the cross was saved without being baptized (because he was under the Old Covenant), why would Jesus tell Nicodemus (who was also under the Old Covenant) that he needed to be baptized?
the only baptism that washes away sin and brings salvation is that of the holy spirit..

When we are born again we are washed by the holy spirit, the word baptism means to (wash) at the very moment one becomes born again, they are washed and made sinless,the bible says,

1 Corinthians 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Notice verse 11 says we are washed by the spirit of God! not by water, the water is just an outward showing of whats going on spiritually,the water it self, has no power to wash away sins,we baptize out of obedience as did Christ,not that Christ had any sins of his own to have washed away, but in keeping things in order.

Mathew 3:1-13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

we obey once we become saved, its salvation and our new nature that causes us to want to obey God,not the other way around,so we see and understand that water baptism doesn't save, but being baptized with the holy spirit washes away sins,and brings salvation.

God Bless

[newview]

43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[b] and praising God.
Then Peter said,
47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

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Why would Peter ORDER them to be baptized when they already believed and had received the Holy Spirit?
________________________________________________________________________________
Be honest - you people dont baptize because
a) you are women who you aint strong enough to hold anybody up in the water
b) you started your own little store front operations and dont have a baptistry to baptize someone in
c) you are too darn lazy to take someone to a pool or pond or river or ocean to baptize someone in
d) you dont know why and never knew why you didnt
or
e) when the people you have preached the gospel to said they wanted to get saved but refused to because it might mess up their hair they just spent $80 on the day before - became more prevelant at your services - you cut it out.

I may be wrong - but thats where I'm leaning about you anti-water baptism folk.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

I was baptized in water by full immersion AFTER receiving the gift of salvation, and a couple of years later I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

To even speak about water baptism is to speak about its true purpose, and that was the prophetic symbol of the coming baptism of the HOLY GHOST. You have clung to the actions of the Apostles in Acts 2, and yet ignored the very words of Prophet John the Baptist, and Christ Jesus Himself:

Luke 3:15-16 "And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not; John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"

John 1:25-27, 29-33 "And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.....The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not: but He that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."

Acts 1:4-5 "And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith He, ye have heard of Me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

And what about the words of Apostle Paul concerning this?

1st Corinthians 1:12-18 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."


This is not about excuses, this is actually about revelation. Believing water baptism has power goes into these categories:

- Roman Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Anglicans, and others alike believing that the bread and wine literally turn into the body and blood of JESUS once eaten and blessed by Priests (PURE NONSENSE)
- Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians taking icons and statues of fallen saints and blessing them, believing the have power to bless and intercede for us (refuted by Ecclesiastes 9:4-5)
- eating certain foods will make you more or less holy (refuted by Romans 14:17; 1st Corinthians 8:4)
- worship on a certain day verses another day (refuted by Psalm 74:16; Psalm 118:24; Romans 14:5-6)

All the things you mentioned up there Newview as to why we "don't believe in water baptism" were insultingly below your intelligence level (at least I hope they were). I never said that its. I was baptized in water, but I know the truth behind it: its only symbolic.

So the question still stands: which made the difference in your life and soul, the water baptism, or the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT?

[newview]

" I was baptized in water, but I know the truth behind it: its only symbolic. "

Then you should be ashamed of yourself for teaching that water baptism is not for those that believe the gospel.
Why did Peter tell those people to baptized when it was not necessary?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You should be ashamed of not knowing any better! You should be ashamed that a bottle of milk is pocking outta your mouth instead of a fork full of meat.

Milk- You have to be water baptized in the name of JESUS, or else its all wrong and there is no remission of sins for you.

Milk- You have to be water baptized in the name of the FATHER, the Son, and the HOLY SPIRIT, or else its all wrong and there is no remission of sins for you.

MEAT- "I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"

Peter and the rest of the Apostles were NOT at their most mature state, believe it or not. They didn't receive the full revelation of what was happening. You would be a fool to think otherwise. THEY DIDN"T EVEN THINK GENTILES COULD GET SAVED AT THE TIME SO YOU SHOULD KNOW BY THAT SMALL BIT OF INFO THAT THEY DIDN'T FULLY UNDERSTAND THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! No scriptures were written at that time making it solid doctrine: NONE! No rules were set. The Apostle's doctrine at that time was extremely basic, with little experience behind it (3 years walking with JESUS). Paul came into the picture 7 years later, and they STILL didn't understand the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT! For 7 whole years, they thought that the Jews were the only ones meant for the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT. It wasn't until Acts 15 at the "Council of Jerusalem" that they were fully getting a hang of it. The Council of Jerusalem is generally dated to around the year 50 AD, roughly twenty years after the death of Jesus of Nazareth, which is dated between 26-36.

So you're telling me that you are following doctrine from the most infant stages of Christianity and calling that maturity in the Spirit, and I should be the one that is shamed of myself? Riiiight, suuurrree........

[ShekinahLife]

Mr green..may I help?/...Yeshua was from the house of Rav Hillel's teaching all historical evidence promotes that. The teaching of Hillel extended to the Gentiles as well...matter of FACT one of the battles between bet Hillel and bet Shammai

The rulers of the Temple grounds ~bet Shammai ( a builder) -along with the Sacari/dagger men and the Zealots at the time refused to aknowledge that the Goyim could share in the world to come.

Hillel disagreed with Shammai and therein is the argument. we see from yeshua to the Sages of Shammai.
SO to be more correct, Kepha did in fact know that the gentiles were to inherit a place in the world to come, being a student of Yeshua, IF they did what Jews have always taught to gentiles...Obey the seven Noahide laws (given to all humanity) and if you do more, Good!
All the rest of that IMHO needs to be in proper order.historically speaking.

Hope that fork is not filled with pork..enjoy your journey.


Lastly all that Baptism in the father son and the HG was an add on and not part of the original writing...You might want to check Rome on that to be sure It seems they enjoyed Embellishing some things..

[newview]

"...So you're telling me that you are following doctrine from the most infant stages of Christianity and calling that maturity in the Spirit, and I should be the one that is shamed of myself? Riiiight, suuurrree........"

You need to get out of the pulpit if you are telling people that baptism was for the early/infant church.
Sad.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Sis. Newview:

You need to get out of the pulpit if you are telling people that baptism was for the early/infant church.

This is not what Bro. Trevor is saying. He is showing you a progression from Milk to Meat.

MEAT- "I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:"

Peace in Jesus

[newview]

Sis, I thought the baptism discussion was over for you. LOL

See there were men - as I posted in a previous post - that had already been baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire ------> and the Apostle Peter STILL told them to get baptized with water.

But I know that wont make a difference or raise any dead horses.

[ShekinahLife]

Newview writes:"But I know that won't make a difference or raise any dead horses."

---

LOL lots of opportunity here.....

[ShekinahLife]

Mrs.Harris writes:"He is showing you a progression from Milk to Meat.
"

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The Honey Milk and meat is the growth foods of a Baby,... first Honey then ...Just another Hebrew Idiom..
Peace in the ONE G-d YHVH..J-sus is a Jewish Son (s) of G-d if anything... as all Jewish people are....

have you checked your blood linage?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You really didn't read what I posted did you? Did you actually read it to find out what I was trying to say, or did you do what many here on BPN do, which is read it only to look for a piece of the paragraph to quote and refute?