WHY WOMEN RIGHTS IN THE CHURCH?(2)

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

I know you very well.

I know that you love and usually use rethoric, philosophy and analogies, traditions, carnal definitions and so on to to support your false teachings!

This time, my question to you is very simple, so please, let us not philosophize about it.

Please answer me!

According to Luke 8:1-3, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?

YES OR NO!

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Women's Ministries and Conferences Helping Fulfill Women's Destiny's or Or Diverting Their True Purpose? Let's Look Deeper!"

"I am sure I will get some attitude over this blog, but I believe this point is valid. If all this ministry is making us better, then statistics should be on our side (women's side). The only way to find the truth about something is to judge it's fruit. Now before we throw up the "don't judge lest ye be judged" line, let's look at 1 Cor 2:15 which says "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...". I believe our true problem in The Body of Christ is that we haven't judged anything for a long time. Where there is no judge you have lawlessness. If we look at statistics as women's ministry has risen so has the divorce rate in the church, so has AIDS and HIV among women, so has homosexuality and lesbiansm, so has abortion just to name a few. If we are getting more "spiritual", then why are our homes doing worse than at any other time in history. It seems the more women become empowered by ministry the more their ministries focus on themselves. The bible said "older women teach the younger women how to love their husbands", but you have never seen a conference like that. When we see a scripture were women were suppose to teach something, it was "how to love your husband 101". If these conferences are not producing better homes and marriages, what are they producing? These ministries are not teaching against divorce, homosexuality or abortion which are all subjects that destroy the family. Oh...family? I think we have uncovered the plan of the enemy....."Keep the women distracted and seeking "the Knowledge" which only leads her to herself and destroy the seed which was suppose to crush the head of the serpent! It was vanity (foolish pride) that inticed Eve to eat the fruit. This vanity is what causes women to be ever learning but never come to the knowledge of the truth: Knowledge puffeth up or makes you proud. This pride is what robs women of there purpose: submisssion. Submission is the most powerful weapon in the Kingdom. It was the weapon that our Savoir used to overcome the worse injustice. The judgement for Eve seeking "the knowlegde" was God brought her under submission. Submission was not punishment, but protection. Without this protection the serpent would continue to try and beguile her which would allow him access to the seed. The knowledge she gains will always cause her to rule or control instead of submit. So God in His wisdom commanded the man to lead her so she would be protected from vanity which divides her from the man. These conferences get women out from under the authority of the man and leave them without a covering or authority. Without a covering the enemy destroys the seed. This is what is fueling these statistics. When our women are seeking this super deepness they become to "spiritual to submit to their husbands because of this "knowledge". Call it old-fashion, but the bible had it right.
"Your desire shall be to your husband and HE shall rule over you." I must come against the Spirit of Jezebel that upsets the order of the home thru false spirituality. If we were truly following Christ we would be having family conferences which fulfill the purpose of the whole family and not SINGLE out the heart (the woman) that makes the family beat.
Hear my heart as a pastor. This was not to hurt, demean or insult anyone. It is only a spiritual man judging spiritual things".

Pastor Stephen Darby

Source:

http://www.blackpreachingnetwork.com/forum/topics/are-womens-minist...

A FOOD FOR THOUGHT!


WOMEN APOSTLES, IS THIS SO IN GOD'S HOUSE?

No, this is not so in God's house!

Indeed, the Bible says:

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers"

Ephesians 4:11

Jesus-Christ is the One who calls true Ministers. Those ones need not to be trained in a Seminary or a Pastoral school.

“For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends”.

2 Corinthians 10:18

Moreover, Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO OVERSEE CHURCHES.

Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO BECOME PASTORS.

Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO BECOME APOSTLES.

For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”

Luke 8:1-3

Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?

No! This is not so in God's house!

Woman’s place is behind!

All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.

All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).

The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.

No woman was leader in the early church.

However, today, men have created their own churches, in which women are ordained Pastors.

Thus, there is a differentiation to be made between the true CHURCH of Jesus and the Churches established by business men and women.

Indeed, Jesus Christ has a single Church which is built on revelation:

“And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”

Matthew 16:18

Jesus says: “MY CHURCH”

THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS NOT A DENOMINATION ESTABLISHED BY MAN.

Indeed, a true Pastor must not wonder How to establish a Church for the One who calls the true ministers is the only one who establishes the CHURCH.

The One who calls the Pastors is the only One Who builds or establishes the CHURCH, His CHURCH.

And the One who builds the Church is the only One who adds to the number of the believers daily those who were being saved (Acts 2:47)

The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.

Indeed, a woman can prophesy according to Joel 2:28

"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions”.

Joel 2:28

Let me tell you that the teaching of Brother Paul was in line with Joel 2:28 1.

Brother Paul teaches that a woman can pray or prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5)

The teaching of Brother Peter (Acts 2:17) was in line with Joel 2:28 1.

The promise of the prophet Joel was that "sons and daughters" would prophesy after the Holy Spirit was given to the church (Joel 2:28)

Admittedly, all of them, men and women were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

HOWEVER, only the twelve Disciples (MEN ONLY) were entitled to teach on the day Pentecost:

“Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”

Acts 2:14

Joel 2:28 can never justify women’s teaching in the Assembly of the Saints.

But what should women do in the Church?

As good mothers old women ought to teach what is good to their daughters: a woman can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”

Titus 2:3-5

They can testify as the Samaritan woman did:

"Come; see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?"

John 4:29

They can prophesy, pray, testify or teach young women.

HOWEVER, they do not have the right to be put behind the pulpit to teach the Word of God, in the Assemblies of the Saints, in the presence of the men and the women. I think that the Bible is sufficiently clear.

I refuse to join the false teachers in their new era.

I choose to get stuck on the old school teaching of Brother Paul and all the Apostles, because the true Church of Jesus Christ is “built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone”.

Ephesians 2:20

Please tell me, were the teachings of the Apostle Paul related to woman’s clothing or submission in the church, to their husband addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus and Corinth?

I don’t think so!

Are the teachings of the Apostle Paul on these issues outdated?

NO, I do not think so!

Because the Bible declares that: « All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

Let’s see what Paul said:

“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”

1 Corinthians 14:33-37

Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?

Paul truly said:

1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”

What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.

2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”

The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.

This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.

Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!

The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)

3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”

Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)

4- “The Lord's command”

What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!

Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”

John 14:15

Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!

The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).

That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on.

And it’s valid for the women of today.

May God open your eyes!

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Thank you brother Anthony R. Watson for your courage!

May God open your eyes so that you can also recognize that "TRINITY" IS NOT SCRIPTURAL.

This is still my prayer for you!

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I FEEL FAMOUS!!!!! He made a blog addressed to lil' ol me!?!? WOW!! I guess I have to respond don't I?

No you DON'T know me at all! I don't use philosophy and traditions to define my teachings. Carnal definitions and analogies however are all around us, for we live in a world of flesh and blood. JESUS Himself used them so why can't we? BE REAL! It is written:

"The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it;" - Psalms 24:1

"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made even his eternal power and Godhead so that they are without excuse" - Romans 1:20

JESUS used fishing farming, and even the Roman Government to help define and describe the Kingdom of GOD. JESUS used the term Apostle, a Greco-Roman governmental office, to title the 12 He hand picked. GOD told Jeremiah to go to the potters house to help him understand house GOD will make men over.

To answer your question simply: no, those women were not Apostles at all. There were only 12 Apostles at the time while Christ walked with them. So neither male nor female were regarded as Apostles other than the 12 that were hand picked. However, females were not hindered in their contribution to the Church after He resurrected and ascended. Is it because they have a vagina that you say they are not qualified for such service to GOD? Does GOD given authority resting on a person with a pare of breasts bother you? These words may seem graphic and rude to some, but the hindrance of GOD's servants is even more obscene in GOD's mind.

We have been over this issue before. I have stated my position and backed it with scripture over and over again. You however cut and paste without even paying attention to what is being said to you. That shows that you lack UNDERSTANDING of the world around you.

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

You said:

"...So neither male nor female were regarded as Apostles other than the 12 that were hand picked..."

I thank you for your answer!"

Now tell me why there wasn't even ONE WOMAN among the 12 that were hand picked at that time?

Have you noticed that?

Please, instruct me!

Brother, you also seem not to know me at all!

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Thats simple: the OT curse of the Law was still in affect. What was that curse? Women were regarded as property, rather than regarded as equals which was the original will of GOD. It was NEVER GOD's will for females to be looked at as second-class citizens, however the curse of Genesis placed them there. Why don't you ask also why JESUS didn't pick a Gentile to be an Apostle along with the twelve?

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

I realize that you do not know the Holy Scriptures. It seems to me that you look after popularity on the Black Preaching network by pleasing the women and leading them astray.

Let me tell you that in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women still exists.

Indeed, Jesus-Christ said this:

“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 5:18-19

Why, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”

Timothy 2:12-15

“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Genesis 3:16

If in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no more exists, tell me why Paul, a preacher of the NEW COVENANT, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies did refer to Genesis 3:16?

PLEASE TELL ME WHY?

Bro. Germain

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Popularity on BPN?!?!?!? W-O-W!! LOL!! Thats a bigger joke to me than anything else you told me! LOL!!!! I have held to my position long before I ever heard of BPN, long before BPN was even created! You really don't know me my friend!

That scripture Genesis 3:16 spoke of the CURSE on woman, or have you ignored that knowingly? How about taking a course on Hermeneutics, or better ye, letting the HOLY SPIRIT speak to you for once?

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

Why, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”

Timothy 2:12-15

“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Genesis 3:16

If in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no more exists, tell me why Paul, a preacher of the NEW COVENANT, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies did refer to Genesis 3:16?

PLEASE TELL ME WHY?

I'm still waiting for your insightful answer!

Bro. Germain

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Now, you said that Paul referred to the Law of GOD when he said for the women to remain silent in 1st Corinthians. Please sow us all where exactly is that stated within the Law of GOD, found within the Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy), or even in any other part of the OT.

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

Let me teach you,

The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.

Let’s see what Paul said:

“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”

1 Corinthians 14:33-37

Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?

Paul truly said:

1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”

What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.

2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”

The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.

This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.

Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!

The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)

3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”

Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)

4- “The Lord's command”

What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15

Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!

The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).

That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on. And it’s valid for the women of today.

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

They must be in submission as the Law says.”

The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.

This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Its apparent that you haven't even read that scripture! Lets go over Genesis 3 right now:

Genesis 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


This event is the great fall of man. The declarations of GOD were given as a result of the disobedience of man and woman. It is written that CHRIST has redeemed us from the curse of the law. what is the curse?

-the woman will be ruled over by the man, which indicated that they stood EQUAL before the curse
-the ground was cursed and man had to toil to gain increase from it, contrary to when it simply grew what they needed without farming it.
-death entered into the land, contrary to GOD creating us in His immortal and eternal.image

Now that I have responded to your questions, how about responding to some of mine: What did GOD say to woman BEFORE Genesis 3, which is the time of the curse?