Can someone please show me in the Bible where this is permitted and explain the text?
Truly, I have been inspired by all of the comments and insight that have come from many of you!! I wanted to open a discussion that would stir the hearts and minds of many and I did. I can see that it is man vs woman and should not be. My question still remains,,,about Women Bishops!!!! The Bible does not co-sign this. I really believe we all are hung on titles. Whatever you do,,,do it all in the name of Jesus. I wanted to make some points and say some things, so that it would stir your knowledge up and cause you to proclaim what you believe. I can say,,,I have walked into many churches,,,and without sayiing a word or opening my mouth,,,,how can these men detect, discern, or sense that God has a call on my life. AND,,,WHAT, call is that? Glory be to God,,,you see many of us should make sure that our scripture references that we are using to back up your point,,,is not contextual customed to fit in your box of beliefs. My statement to this was about,,,women Bishops,,,and I for one don't agree with the TITLE,,,but I believe that a woman can teach the Gospel,,,and if the HOOP is naturally in her when she delievers,,,then hoop. Whether you want to call it style,,,whatever,,,,we all have our style. So,,if I come to some of your churches,,,I can get turned off by even the way some you hoop or TEACH. Everyone is voicing their beliefs. This is a very sensitive topic,,,and women we must make sure we are wise virtuous women,,,one thing is for sure,,,we are MASTERs at multitasking. If God,,,called you to Sunday School, Evangelist,Prophet, then you must remain a help at home. Men,,,i believe if your wife works, has to take care of kids,,,and does servant service to her local Ministry,,,it just WONT kill you to assist her at home. This is one statement that needs constant understanding and research. Our prayer should be that the LORD will enlighten and reveal to us his truth,,,NOT YOUR OPINION or CONVINCING. You see,,he that wins a soul is wise. We must make sure we ALL speak wisely. God Bless You All And thanks for the replies and the most of all THE WORD!!

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Brother Tervor,

Let me tell you that the Bible truly says that Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel.

Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do.

The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).

See : “…into your hands…”! Yes, into the hands of Barak, A MAN. Amen!

A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.

Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war.

The attitude of Barak was to some extent a release of liability, a disengagement.

Of course, today, men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak:

“Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)

Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:

"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)

Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!

"...But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman..."

Authority belongs to Barak, the man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an excerpt of her canticle:

“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”

(Judges 5:7)

Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!

Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!

Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.

Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you can prophesy, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.

You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are mothers.

Indeed, the Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”

1 Timothy 2:15

This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”

“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”

Titus 2:3-5

Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.

Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:

“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

1 Peter 3:1-6

If the Bible is your absolute, then say a big AMEN to that!

Blessings,

Brother Germain

www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
The Bible is my absolute, but you won't get a big amen from me simply because you did not speak the truth of the Bible. Lets break this down bit by bit:

"Let me tell you that the Bible truly says that Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel."

A judge in that time was a leader amongst the people. The judge back then mobilized and legislated. The Hebrew word used for judged was shaphat (shaw-fat') and means "to judge, i.e. pronounce sentence (for or against); by implication, to vindicate or punish; by extension, to govern; passively, to litigate". Sounds like a leader to me!


"Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do."

Barak was the leader of the ARMY, not the nation. Operating in the office Moses once held, Deborah was in lead position, while Barak played a Joshua role.


"The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14)."

A Prophet(ess) is second in the Church only to the Apostle. What does that say of her?


"A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men."

Correction, Apostle Paul only said that a woman is not to USURP authority. Time to define USURP people!


"Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen! "...But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman..."

Authority belongs to Barak, the man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an excerpt of her canticle: “Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.” (Judges 5:7)Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!"



There was a mention of gender, but not of authority when she spoke of glory. Thats is the credit of winning the war, not of leading the nation. When she spoke of being a mother, she mentioned herself as rising to be the mother over Israel. We all know that the father leads the household, but the only father over Israel is GOD the FATHER Himself. Therefore, she ranked herself second behind GOD in leadership of Israel, as any good leader would.
Brother Trevor,

DEBORAH WAS A JUDGE, BUT NOT IN A SENSE EQUIVALENT TO THAT OF OTHNIEL and EHUD

Brother,

You are leading women astray.

Please, do not try to please women but please God.

Indeed, brother Paul said:

“For do I now seek to satisfy men or God? or do I seek to please men? If I were yet pleasing men, I were not Christ's bondman.”

Galatians 1:10

Please, quit(leave) feminism and preach only the Word of God.

Indeed, you said:

“Barak was the leader of the ARMY, not the nation. Operating in the office Moses once held, Deborah was in lead position, while Barak played a Joshua role”.

Brother, the Bible states clearly that Sisera was the captain of the army of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor (Judges 4:2).

So when you say that “Barak was the leader of the ARMY, not the nation”, do you want to insinuate that Barak was the leader of the ARMY of Deborah?

The ARMY of Deborah, since she would be leader of the whole nation ?

Is this your teaching?

Brother, why did God raise up Judges in Israel?

He raised up Judges in Israel in order to save Israel out of the hands of its enemies.

“ Then the LORD raised up judges, who saved them out of the hands of these raiders”.

Judges 2:16

No one has said that Doborah had not play a role.

Certainly, she was a Judge, but she was not a Judge in a sense equivalent to that of the other Judes because she was a WOMAN.

Let us see:

The Bible says that God raised up for Israelites a deliverer, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, who saved them. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war.
“But when they cried out to the LORD, he raised up for them a deliverer, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, who saved them. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him. 11 So the land had peace for forty years, until Othniel son of Kenaz died”.

Judges 3:9-11

Brother, the Bible says that OTHNIEL, son of Kenaz, the JUDGE WENT TO WAR.

His appeal was directly linked to the cries of the Israelites. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war (himself).

Let us see an other example:

The Bible states that God raised up for Israelites a deliverer Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite.

“ 15 Again the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer—Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab. 16 Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [a] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols [b] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [c] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. 22 Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. 23 Then Ehud went out to the porch [d] ; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them”.

Judges 3:15-23

Brother, the Bible says that "EHUD, a left-handed man, the Judge of Israel had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [a] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols [b] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [c] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly".

Here again, we notice that the appeal of the Judge EHUD was directly linked to the cries of the Israelites, so at the idols near Gilgal he himself turned back and said to the King, "I have a secret message for you.

Yes, EHUD Himself drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the belly Eglon king of Moab.

Brother, do you know the leader of the ARMY of OTHNIEL and EHUD?

Were they leaders of the nation who didn’t possess army captains?

New let us see the appeal of Deborah.

“And the children of Israel cried to Jehovah; for he had nine hundred chariots of iron, and he mightily oppressed the children of Israel twenty years. And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim; and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Judges 4:3-5

Brother, the appeal of Deborah was not directly linked to the cries of the Israelites, because she was already a Judge before their cries. She was also a prophetess.

“…Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time…”

Brother, please answer my question:

Why doesn’t the Bible say that the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer, Deborah the prophetess?

Why?

This is what the Bible says:

“And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-Naphtali, and said to him, Hath not Jehovah the God of Israel commanded? Go and draw towards mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun.”

Judges 4:6

Why did Deborah send and call Barak ( A MAN) ?

Why didn’t Deborah decide to go to war herself as OTHNIEL and EHUD did?

Why?

Because she was a WOMAN.

Women of God, please recognize that you are WOMEN.

Please recognize your limits as Deborah did.

Please, do not be ashamed of your statute. To be a WOMAN is not a shame.

The Bible says that you are WEAKER vessels.

“7[Ye] husbands likewise, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, as with a weaker, [even] the female, vessel, giving [them] honour, as also fellow-heirs of [the] grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered”.

1 Peter 3:7

Certainly, Deborah was a Judge, but she was not a Judge in a sense equivalent to that of OTHNIEL and EHUD because she was a WOMAN.

Deborah has played a role as a Prophetess, not as a warrior, a true leader or a true General who goes to war himself.

Indeed, Deborah said:

“My heart is toward the governors of Israel, who offered themselves willingly among the people. Praise the LORD! »

JUDGES 5: 9

Women of God, you must be grateful like Deborah and praise the LORD for having commended Pastors, Evangelists, Doctors, Apostles, Prophets, among you.

“It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers.”

Ephesians 4:11

Please, praise the Lord for that! Please, be grateful for that!

As Deborah, please leave the pulpit or the authority to men ordained by God who offered themselves willingly among the people of God.

Truly speaking, Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel.

Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do.

The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).

See : “…into your hands…”! Yes, into the hands of Barak, A MAN. Amen!

A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.

Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war.

The attitude of Barak was to some extent a release of liability, a disengagement.

Of course, today, men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak:

“Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)

Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:

"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)

Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!

"...But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman..."

Authority belongs to Barak, the man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an excerpt of her canticle:

“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”

(Judges 5:7)

Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!

Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!

Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.

Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you can prophesy, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.

You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are

mothers.

Deborah was the felow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!

For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”

Luke 8:1-3

Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?

Yes, woman’s place is behind!

All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.

All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).

The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.

No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.

Indeed, the Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”

1 Timothy 2:15

This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”

“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”

Titus 2:3-5

Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.

Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:

“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

1 Peter 3:1-6

If the Bible is your absolute, then say a big AMEN to that!

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
Thanks, Moreh. That means something coming from you!
LOL! Bro Greene, Bro Greene, Bro Greene
They don't know any better, Evangelist! JESUS said "the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few, therefore pray the LORD of the harvest send laborers into the field." The Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher is described as being a gift from Christ to the people. They do not just have gifts, they ARE the gift! The problem here is that they pray and don't like what they receive from GOD!
Amen, we must learn to lean not unto our own understanding, but do the will of God. You be blessed Brother
Bro. Tervor,
I'm praying for you... I think I was clear in my statement... I didn't give my background to boast... I gave it to show that many are being deceived by doctrines of error even in prestige' seminaries... many of the seminary teaching today are tainted by philosophy of men not of God and His Word… To answer the question in plain English… should women be bishops? NO… on what grounds do I answer this question? On the grounds that’s already laid down to us in Scripture… Paul said what he said and meant what he said… God used Paul to lay down the rules in which we (who are saved) are to govern ourselves at home, in the world and in the church…

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Brother and whoever else that has ascribed to the liberalism and feminism teaching … if you preach any other doctrines/gospel/philosophy than what’s laid down in Scripture then you’re accursed… woe unto you if you don't turn from error back to the truth...
The grounds that Paul laid down for Bishops is the same grounds that Paul laid down for the Deaconate ministry. One clear cut saying that is used is "husband of one wife", but this is a total misunderstanding. There reason why is this: the Deacon were suppose to be the husband of one wife also, so why on Earth was Phebe counted as a Deacon by Apostle Paul himself!?!? Did he change his mind as time passed? Was this an error? Being a student of the Greek language, you would do well to note that the same Greek word for deacon in the epistle to Timothy is the same word used for Phoebe in the epistle to the Roman church.

Coincidence? Misunderstanding? Error in translation? Paul's human error? Or hypocrisy by hindering women of GOD?

You be the judge......
One has not to ascribe to liberalism or feminism, to understand the who, what, and why of Bro Pauls teaching.

Again I say one sure sign of spiritual maturity is knowing how to accept what God allows.

I have no desire to be a Bishop, as I had no desire to be an Evangelist(for that much) however God saw different.

Ones could go back and forth with this, but as the word says to me and you as well, Let the wheat and the tare grow together and HE will do the seperating.

In other words God can handle it!
Sis. I never said one has to ascibe to liberalism or femenism to understand the who, what, and why of Bro Paul's teaching... I said they cloud one's vision of receiving with grace what's being interpreted... I also said, "The Who, What, When, Where, and Why question is part of interpreting Scripture… you have more steps in your hermeneutics and homiletics to go…"

Sis. the first thing that must be established is the authority of God's (Yah's) Word... I believe in Sola Scriptura- that is, the Bible is the only infallible, inerrant authority for Christian faith and it contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Sola Scriptura demands that no doctrine is to be admitted or confessed that is not found directly within Scripture."

Do you believe in the authority of God's (Yah's) Word? Unless this is established, one can't move forward...

You're also on dangerous grounds stating learning to accept what God (Yah) allows... God (Yah) said that He'll turn them over to a reprobate mind and their own corruption... that's what God (Yah) allows when man doesn't follow His Word... just because God (Yah) is allowing it doesn't mean He's behind it...
Bro Christian

I do not operate in a "step program" hermeneutics or homiletics, I leave that to all you edgeumacated fo_lks. That will not and cannot understand, that Paul was dealing with the church in it's infancy.

My steps are order by God! and I obey HIM not man

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