Women Bishop

[Yolanda Burton]

Can someone please show me in the Bible where this is permitted and explain the text?
Truly, I have been inspired by all of the comments and insight that have come from many of you!! I wanted to open a discussion that would stir the hearts and minds of many and I did. I can see that it is man vs woman and should not be. My question still remains,,,about Women Bishops!!!! The Bible does not co-sign this. I really believe we all are hung on titles. Whatever you do,,,do it all in the name of Jesus. I wanted to make some points and say some things, so that it would stir your knowledge up and cause you to proclaim what you believe. I can say,,,I have walked into many churches,,,and without sayiing a word or opening my mouth,,,,how can these men detect, discern, or sense that God has a call on my life. AND,,,WHAT, call is that? Glory be to God,,,you see many of us should make sure that our scripture references that we are using to back up your point,,,is not contextual customed to fit in your box of beliefs. My statement to this was about,,,women Bishops,,,and I for one don't agree with the TITLE,,,but I believe that a woman can teach the Gospel,,,and if the HOOP is naturally in her when she delievers,,,then hoop. Whether you want to call it style,,,whatever,,,,we all have our style. So,,if I come to some of your churches,,,I can get turned off by even the way some you hoop or TEACH. Everyone is voicing their beliefs. This is a very sensitive topic,,,and women we must make sure we are wise virtuous women,,,one thing is for sure,,,we are MASTERs at multitasking. If God,,,called you to Sunday School, Evangelist,Prophet, then you must remain a help at home. Men,,,i believe if your wife works, has to take care of kids,,,and does servant service to her local Ministry,,,it just WONT kill you to assist her at home. This is one statement that needs constant understanding and research. Our prayer should be that the LORD will enlighten and reveal to us his truth,,,NOT YOUR OPINION or CONVINCING. You see,,he that wins a soul is wise. We must make sure we ALL speak wisely. God Bless You All And thanks for the replies and the most of all THE WORD!!

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Okay, let me read up on that, for I do believe as well that the gifts of the Spirit are to be active in our lives.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Amen. It never hurts to investigate.

I also started up a blog series on that subject in the "Doctrine" section called "The Present Bible Canon PART I: Case Closed or Open???". Go check it out.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Open, along with my Hebrew New Testament :)

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Kareem A. Christian,

AMEN!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Min. Kareem:

After doing extensive studies in "Church History" from educators with earned doctorates (not honorary) from places like Oral Roberts University, and mentors that are Apostles & Prophets, Bishops & Pastors who not only operate in their gifts extremely well, but have been well educated, I would have confidence in what I state here Minister Kareem. Sadly, you are speaking only from the prejudice of a Baptist background, who traditionally had problems in major areas of biblical doctrine. No offense to the Baptists, because I got much love for them. I have a high respect for Baptist ministers because they study, but traditional Baptist theology is one-sided, eliminating the Spiritual gifts and replacing them and Him with Calvin, Spurgeon, Wesley, and the like. They are dynamic in their own right for their own generation, but as good as they were, quoting them, quoting Apostolic fathers, hermeneutics & homiletics can NEVER replace the Holy Spirit's revelation.

Sola Scriptura is an idea that was thought of by the Protestants to guard against the flaws of a Pope ruling you with an iron fist, claiming to damn you whether you are wrong or right. Though its heart means well, its idea is totally off, eliminating the gifts of the Spirit and the authority of an Apostle or Prophet. Prima Scriptura however is what was held by the Church because JESUS Himself practiced this (check your gospels and see the examples of this). The spirit and idea behind Prima Scriptura even goes as far back as to Genesis, though this term was developed by Church fathers. Sola Scriptura is an idea that places the mind and heresy of the Sadducees front and center.

As far as my age goes, why should that matter to you? Elihu, the ONLY one not rebuked in the book of Job was a young man, Apostle John was the youngest of the Apostles starting his ministry under JESUS in his twenties, and even your LORD JESUS Himself starting at age 30. You sir aren't much older than me. Since when did years guarantee wisdom? A young man such as yourself, clinging to Sola Scriptura, and you ignore Job's words (Job 28), Elihu's words (Job 32:6-22), and Apostles James words (James 1:5-6)? Since when was there a limit in wisdom and correction of error? Has Church commentary taken the place of the Bible in your own words and you didn't even know it? A shame indeed.

[Rev. Kareem A. Christian]

Brother Trevor,
I pray we could agree to disagree...
I'm far from blinded or one sided in my understanding of Scriptures... one of my mentors in the ministry whom confirmed my calling came from the apostolic teachings/religion/doctrine... some of my mentors who I hold dear to my heart and whom I've learned greatly from are not from the Baptist understanding...
When I marticulated in seminary... I marticulated not at Baptist seminaries... I laid down my Baptist beliefs to engage in my studies... so no, I don't speak from the prejudice of a Baptist background... the doctrines that I teach and hold fast to are validated by Scripture... The Bible is my final authority... Sola Scriptura... not Church History... not doctrines/philosphies/or thoughts of man... but the Bible... I preach the whole counsel of God (Yah)... I don't ignore or sway from what's already written... Logos... Paul's warning is true, "If any man or angel preach any other doctrine than what was recieved let him be accursed..." many today are preaching new revelation, new prophesies, new dogma that's not validated by Scripture... all our teaching must line up with Scripture... God (Yah) has already spoken through His apostle and the Logos... there is no new revelation... the Bible is our means for life... The Holy Spirit has to agree with the Logos... the Holy Spirit is not giving a new revelation... but bringing us into understanding of what's already written... and equipping/strengthening us to obey God's (Yah's) commands...

Trevor, can I ask you this one question in hopes to be freinds/brothers not enemies?
If one sit unde error, would that person be a product of the error in which they were taught?
Shalom...

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Agree to disagree? There is no such thing in the Kingdom. Whenever you seen an "agreement to disagree" in the Bible, its because one either didn't understand the spiritual matters, or one was just stubborn. Thats called division.

I have to say, that yes, you are coming from a Baptist background. Lets be real, a bunch of people work in Wall Street, but how many of them had the same up bringing? Some came from rich backgrounds, either good or corrupt, the others came from poor/ghetto upbringing, both good or corrupt. You went to seminary schools that weren't Baptist, but I am SURE that if the teaching went against your traditional doctrine, it would've been an interesting thing seeing you actually take it in and accepting it from the start, no matter who your mentors were. Oneness Pentecostals have given me a great deal of help at one time and some still do, but I do not agree with their doctrine of the Godhead; Baptists have helped me along, but I do not agree with "once saved always saved". Even with your mentors influence, you have an issue with some of the doctrine you hear to this day that you are either unfamiliar with or didn't agree with. If I came to to you with an Eastern Orthodox doctrine, you being Protestant wouldn't readily accept it would you? What if I came telling you that I regarded the Book of Enoch as authentic, Holy Spirit inspired, and its in Biblical canon? So please don't tell me that you are not coming with a Baptist prejudice.And if its not fully a Baptist one, its some kind of prejudice.

Paul didn't say "If any man or angel preach any other doctrine than what was received let him be accursed". He said "if an angel or any other man preach another GOSPEL," not doctrine. There are different doctrines that can be taught concerning the Word of GOD. There is however only one gospel of JESUS CHRIST, but different views/paradigms of the gospel (Matthew, Mark/Peter, Luke/Paul John, and the rest of the Apostles).

You said "The Bible is my final authority. Sola Scriptura, not Church History, not doctrines, philosophies, or thoughts of man, but the Bible. I preach the whole counsel of God (Yah)... I don't ignore or sway from what's already written." Thats an interesting thing to say. Lets break that down bit by bit: "not Church history"..what then is the Book of Acts?; "not doctrines"..but what then are the epistles of Paul? Doctrines are "teachings", so that means you reject all teachings? Tell that to your mentors; "not philosophies"...I can agree with; "or thought of man"...depends on the thoughts my friend, for as Paul put it, we have the mind of Christ; "I teach the whole counsel of GOD, I dont sway from whats already written"....according to what canon? According to what scripture? You already mixed it up when you said "If any man or angel preach any other doctrine than what was received let him be accursed." Thats actually a vain philosophy from old Catholic Church tradition that was a TOTAL error. According to what doctrine or scripture is the Holy Spirit not giving any new revelation? Let me guess, Revelation 22:18-19, right? I can GUARANTEE that its a false doctrine!

As a brother in JESUS CHRIST (you were never my enemy, I just say that you're in error) I can say yes, if one sits under error, they can be a product of it. However, once GOD reveals the truth to them, then that error can be utilized. The devil cannot create anything, only pervert what GOD originated. This goes into what Apostle Paul said "all thing were created by Him and for Him". Some errors are only 99% true, therefore needing a 1% adjustment.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Any doctrine outside of Messianic Jewish is off to you, so I don't know what to say to you bro......

[Lester Demings Jr]

Oral Roberts University???
The same "university" that got Carlton twisted up.
Yea let's boast about that one lol!!!
You church folk are hilarious hahahaaa!!!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

O.R.U. didn't twist Carlton Pierson, Carlton Pierson twisted Carlton Pierson. The don't teach "Gospel of inclusion" at O.R.U., kiddo. He renounced ALL of the doctrine that the Bible teaches, be it by Oral Roberts , C.O.G.I.C. (your folks, Mr. Smith), or any of us that believe that YESHUA/JESUS is the only way to salvation. He rejects the Lake of Fire, he says Satan aint real, he says EVERYONE gets saved no matter what. In fact, he's double minded because he said Satan goes to heaven eventually also. Now how can you claim Lucifer will enter Heaven when you already said he doesn't even exist?

Can JESUS be held accountable for the fall of Judas? In fact, how about this question: what exactly do you know about O.R.U., and it's study courses? Anything besides the gossip that people flock to but is only one-sided.....

[Rev. Kareem A. Christian]

Moreh,
The same cure they supposed to had over twenty years ago? Lol... (A bunch of crooks... how in the world do you say God (Yah) told me to build a hospital and it goes belly up in a matter of years?) (In 1983 Roberts said Jesus had appeared to him in person and commissioned him to find a cure for cancer. Roberts' fundraising has drawn controversy. In 1987, during a fundraising drive, Roberts announced to a television audience that unless he raised $8 million by that March, God would "call him home" (a euphemism for death)...) Now since when did God (Yah) need money to heal people?

Trevor, Trevor, Trevor,

I didn't want to comment on Oral Roberts, but I see the tree that shaped your understanding... "An evil tree cannot bear good fruit..." have you read the history on how that university came into existence? If you had you wouldn't be bragging about your mentors and your studies from there...

The Charismatic movement itself is misleading... the founder (Granville Oral Roberts) dropped out of seminary... (Roberts became a traveling faith healer after dropping out of college.) If that's not bad enough... (Roberts originally made a name for himself with a mobile big tent "that sat 3,000 on metal folding chairs" where "he shouted at petitioners who did not respond to his healing)... Would Jesus have done that?

Furthermore, you haven't corrected anything I said or believe (My belief is not wrapped up in a theology or demoninational teachings... it's based soley upon Scripture... so let's not make this a Baptist vs. others thing)... you have failed to show Scripture to back up what you believe... back to the topic of this post... should a woman be a bishop? My answer is No based on 1 Timothy 3... What's your answer to this question? (Please use Scripture to back up your answer...) (Let's focus on this one question)...
Shalom...

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Allow me to enlighten you to some things:

-For starters, the Charismatic movement is NOT misleading, but misunderstood. You who believe that the gifts of the Spirit are in error. For starters you lack the faith to actually see such happen consistently in your life. You also are doctrinally off concerning it. The Charismatic gifts of the Bible have always been under fire, even back in the Bible days. You do a healing, they accuse you of fraud or witchcraft; you don't do a healing, they accusing you of being a false Prophet (even when you don't claim to be a Prophet). Your prophecy doesn't come to pass, you are a false Prophet (never mind the fact that it most likely was either misunderstood, or the person did not live up to the conditions of the Word from GOD); if it does comes to pass, they don't give you credit, but say "luck guess" (if they even remember you said it), or say "any fool coulda said that!"

-So what if he dropped out of seminary school! What does that say that is negative concerning him? Do you know how many people go to seminary school and come out WORSE than before??? Truth be told, the Church itself is to be the seminary for Ministers, for it provide both sufficient doctrine and O.J.T. How many Bishops have you heard personally say that they barely use the stuff that they were taught in most seminary schools? I can say that I have heard plenty, both in the pulpit and in personal talks. It has its good points, but once again, I truly say that you replaced the wisdom of GOD and the voice of the HOLY SPIRIT with the wisdom of Spurgeon, Clement, & Luther, and the voice of Ignatius, Tertullian, Pope Leo, & Wesley.

-Your quotes concerning Roberts' making a name for himself came from TIME Magazine, a secular magazine that shows little to no respect for ministers that are actually obeying GOD's voice. The few ministers it showed respect to were not placed up there for their faith in Christ JESUS, but for secular work and entrepreneurial success (with the RARE exceptions of Billy Graham, James Dobson, & Richard John Neuhaus).

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050207/photoessay/index.html

-No man is perfect, be it Pastor Prophet or even Apostle. No man in the Bible was perfect except for the LORD JESUS. All Apostles Prophets Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers are prone to error, be it public or private. You think Peter had it all together? You think Paul was the best of them?

-I HAVE shown scripture, over and over and over....I started off speaking to you concerning this subject using scriptures left and right, O.T. and N.T. Its not a matter of me showing scripture, its a matter of you BELIEVING what I showed!