Are pastors who allowed their wives to preach and teach over men in the congregation disobeying God?

[Preacher]

1Timothy 2

11 Let a woman in quietness learn in all subjection, 12 and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness, 13 for Adam was first formed, then Eve, 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came, 15 and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

1Timothy 3
5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)

GB

[Queen Terrell]

We cant do God's work if we are not confident in who we are in Jesus Chirst, if our minds could just grasp what God has done through his son Jesus.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

Actually, I'm mostly questioning various things Preacher has mentioned. Mostly the root paradigm that seems to be (and Preacher please correct me if my assumption of your thoughts is incorrect) that all roads lead to Eve's deception (sin) therefore there should be very little mentioning of that which ailes man(gender).

When we get to such topics as these, I always search for "balance". Even when we talk about relationships there seems to be this weird imbalance of placing blame on men or women versus looking at the WHOLE pictures.

I guess I'm just different in that I look at BOTH men and women and address both's issues and not just focus on one.

Anywho, it is from this perspective that I comment on this discussion thread.

It saddens me when men and women are soooo vehemently upset about women being out of order that it almost puts blinders on them to the missing puzzle piece of both men and women being out of order in how they relate to one another, to God, to society.

Eve was not in the garden by herself LOL she did not eat of the fruit alone. We can dialogue until we are blue in the face but both Adam and Eve disobeyed God. We can call it sin, we can call it transgression we can say Adam was imputed with Eve's sin because he was the head but the fact of the matter is no one forced Eve to eat the fruit, and no one forced Adam to. They both ate of the fruit willingly and in disobedience.

Women being controlling and men being controlled bhy them and men being domineering and women being victimized... women out of order in the church and men complaining about it... Men having a lack of presence in the church or the home.... I mean we can go at this forever...

The bottom line is BOTH are responsible for their own actions or even lack there of...and for ONE to FULLY operate in error in the allowing presence of other shows that the commanlity is BOTH are in error.

What I see here on BPN and in soooo many places is the blame game that has gone on since God confronted Adam about Adam's disobedience....and Eve about hers and the serpent about what it did.


Genesis 3:8-14

8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Suffice it to say that THEY both knew that THEY had mesed up.

9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

WE TEND TO HIDE BEHIND EXCUSES and our words reveal our root issue(s) every time.! God got straight to the root issue.....the issue wasn't that Adam was hiding nor that he was naked.... watch God expose Adam's disobedience thru a simple conversation...

11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Uh oh---- well Lord see what had happened was.... Adam didnt even answer God's question directly.... WHO TOLD YOU was the question... not whad did the woman do.

12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.


It shouldn't matter what the woman did. Adam was told not to eat it right? So it shouldn't matter if a woman is out of order... ADAM is still suppose to do whatever God told him... right? But now that Adam shifted blame on the woman shifting the focus off himself.... God deals with her.. ADAM WHERE ARE YOU???


13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Now wait a minute...Eve was decieved this is most definitely true (Genesis 3:1-4) Where was Adam when she was being decieved? Was he privvy to her convo with the serpent? And Eve... by her own admission knew that she was NOT suppose to eat of the tree...why didn't she believe God's word over the serpents deceptive words?

And here in this passage, does this mean that the Lord is saying to Eve..."Eve how horrible you are for tricking poor innocent Adam into eating the fruit" No.. not at all. He didn't heve ask her about Adam. He asked her about EVE. EVE what have YOU done? Women do the same thing as men... we want to blame men for why we act the way we do. Just like I asked where was Adam... I did it to show you a woman's mindset. A lot but not all women will say, the men are absent so we must......

Faced with her disobedience EVE shifts the focus off her motive and onto the serpent.

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

So, again, in discussions like these... I dont just focus on what the woman is or isn't doing... I ask the same questions God asked.... I address BOTH the men and the women...

ADAM - where are you?
EVE - what have you done?

BOTH were present in the garden
BOTH disobeyed God
BOTH were disciplined
and now all of mankind(species) is born in sin becasue we all came from the two people who disobeyed God.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Preacher:

The bible clearly teaches us that Eve was in the sin...not Adam...we can't just shoot over that and try and make our own point to fit what we want to believe...

ARE YOU SERIOUS?????

You are actually "unjustifiably" playing the "BLAME GAME?"

This is clear and undeniably a sign of arrogance and pride.

How sad . . . .

[Preacher]

You are actually "unjustifiably" playing the "BLAME GAME?"

I'm not the one who said Eve was in the sin...God did...why did he say it? maybe you can teach me?
GB

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Preacher:

I did not question Eve's action. I question your statement that Adam did not sin.

Genesis 3:17 . . .And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

God would not have cursed the ground if Adam had not sinned. The scripture above clearly shows Adam was in disobedience to God's commandment WHICH IS A SIN.

[Preacher]

Reply by Chaplain Pat Harris 1 minute ago
Preacher:

I did not question Eve's action. I question your statement that Adam did not sin.

Genesis 3:17 . . .And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

God would not have cursed the ground if Adam had not sinned. The scripture above clearly shows Adam was in disobedience to God's commandment WHICH IS A SIN.


1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

[newview]

Saved or not - the woman is still in subjection to the man...in their own home and in the house of the Lord.
A sister who puts her trust in Jesus secures eternal freedom from the wages of sin, however she’s not free YET from some of the repercussions of Eve’s rebellion in Eden.
Just like she still gives birth in pain - even if she is saved.
Some things wont change until the Jesus comes back.

[Preacher]

When we get to such topics as these, I always search for "balance". Even when we talk about relationships there seems to be this weird imbalance of placing blame on men or women versus looking at the WHOLE pictures.

As a woman try and stick to this verse and work with that before you start trying to fix men...this is not to make women feel less or anything of such...but this is the build them up...

1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

1 Corinthians 11:9
neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Genesis 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him

Matthew 18:4
Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven

GB

[Queen Terrell]

A-men sister, I have been noticing for years, that most men who try to put their foot on A woman's neck, was rejected by their mother or some other woman, I pray that they realize that God loves them and us. thank God for Jesus,( my way maker)

[newview]

Sister Terrell,

Surely Paul was not trying to put his foot on A woman's neck...
He was led by the Holy Spirit to pen these instructions :-)

[Preacher]

Amen....

[Queen Terrell]

consider what was going on at that time, the women were, as you said, uneducated,or unlearned. and if Paul meant for them to be silent always then we are not to say anything at all. dont worry brother, we are going to keep on doing what we are supposed to do, and that is to spread the Gospel, and keep on winning souls, and God is calling out more and more women preachers every day, the harvest is plentiful. Paul had women working side by side with him, and the true yokefellows are still working side by side with the women of God.