KING JAMES VERSION ~~ An authority?~~~~ or ~~~ A Hindrance to Christianity ?

[Dr. Brenice Aliyah Fireangel]

Who has made the King James Version of the Bible, " The Authoritative Version?

What View of the Torah does it foster?

Should we rely more upon a Hebraic Version of the Torah?

Why is everyone so attached to the King James Version, in the West?

Brenice FireAngel

[Dr. Brenice Aliyah Fireangel]

Brother Trevor

NoOne is saying that God is Hebraic. The point is that most of Christiandom is looking everywhere else , but in the way God intended since he chose Abraham to be the father of many nations through which His salvation for man would come.! This is the way Yahweh's plan was ,and still is. Do you deny this?

Why go all around the world looking for answers , when Jesus (Yahshua) himself said , "Keep your eyes on Jerusalem." There are people "even church fathers", who did not, and will not obey the commands of Yahweh.

If we ,Seek and search,for Yahweh's messages to the Jews and His dealings with the Jews , one will surely learn all one needs to know about how Yah thinks and How he works. Do you agree with that? Anti-Semitic thinking is what has slowed down the return of Christ. We all need to recognize . You are either a Child of Yahweh, through the Jews; or a Gentile [pagan] without the Jews. Yahshua broke down the wall of division, but he did not eradicate the Jews.

Brenice

[James Pierce]

Brenice,

Preach it!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I don't deny that such things are true, however, the presentation of it is totally off my friends. I myself have had much dealing with Jewish believers and non-believers because it is apart of my ministry calling. I do not call for people to be anti-Semitic at all, however I don't call for people to be "more Jewish" either as many want. This was the way of the Pharisee that believed, for they wanted the Gentile believers to grow to be more like a Hebrew and talk more of the Kingdom of (physical) Israel, when GOD called for them to just grow in the grace and knowledge of our LORD JESUS, and the Kingdom of Heaven.

Paul said these key things that cannot be denied or ignored:

-Colossians 3:10-14

10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, long suffering;
13Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

-1st Corinthians 7:17-24

17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

Now how can one go from circumcision to uncircumcision? The only way Paul was speaking of was no longer living as GOD had him/her had ordained for that person. He also, spoke of the opposite, one going from uncircumcision to circumcision, meaning living from one without the life of a Torah-keeper to the life that resembled that of a devout Jew.

This cannot be denied or danced around: Paul basically said if you weren't doing it before, don't start now; if you were doing it before, don't stop.

[Dr. Brenice Aliyah Fireangel]

My dear brother

No one is asking for anyone who was not born a Jew to become a Jew. One can and should study the book which Yah left for instruction TORAH, WHICH happens to have been made available, by His chosen people , The Jews. Not Islam, not Christian, Not Hindu. Jews! Why would one want to reinvent the wheel, if it has already been invented. It can be enhanced, but not reinvented, right?

Brenice

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The interesting thing here is this: you say "No one is asking for anyone who was not born a Jew to become a Jew", but many many conversations concerning this very subject points to the opposite.

Anyone that studies the Bible knows that Moses wrote the Torah and almost all Christians read it. True they do need to study it more, but it is read.

We all know Islam, Hinduism and the like played no part in the Bible. Christianity, however, did. When you say "Christianity", you are talking about the falsehood and heresy of the Middle Ages, the many evil Popes, Greek Philosophy, and Antisemitism that plagued the early Church. When I say Christianity, I am seeing the promise to Abraham fulfilled; I am seeing the faith of old continued; I am seeing the grafting in of the Gentiles; I am seeing exactly what it was meant to be in the origin of the name: CHRIST-like. Christianity is the end of Judaism, which is a faith that waited for the Messiah to come. Christians are waiting for HIM to come AGAIN. So if you want to associate with being called a Jew in that sense, then you are still waiting for HIS first appearance. Christianity IS the enhancement of the wheel, because it took the wheel and made a car around it.

I am not re-inventing the wheel, I am merely quoting Apostle Paul.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Christianity wasn't actually the end of Judaism, although it did a great job of removing Torah from the lifestyle of the early Church. All of the Apostles continued to keep Torah, and so did their followers. This cannot be denied, and scripture proves this, from Torah to Revelation!

[PASTOR CHARLES E BELL JR]

preach it greene

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Your comment proves my point: "When you say "Christianity", you are talking about the falsehood and heresy of the Middle Ages, the many evil Popes, Greek Philosophy, and Antisemitism that plagued the early Church." You are looking at the flaws of it and are condemning it. True, Christianity wasn't the best thing to watch from our standpoint looking back at the Popes, but neither were the days of the Temples either. In fact, the Book of Acts weren't the best days of Christianity, for the best is yet to come.

Christianity does not turn down the Torah, but keeps it by living according to the Law of the Spirit, and not the Law of Moses (which was called by Paul the Law of sin and death). Christianity is the end of Judaism, because (again) Judaism is a faith that teaches you to wait for Messiah to come, but if you are Christian, you understand and live by the knowledge that the Temple of Solomon is over with and Christ is here to reign. The Law of Moses was kept with the Ark of the Covenant in mind. Pay close attention to the name: Ark of the Covenant, as in the OLD COVENANT. Christianity does not go by the old covenant, but the new covenant. To truly keep Judaism, you need that Ark and lamb's blood. To keep the NEW covenant, you need the blood of the LAMB slain from the foundations of the world, JESUS the Messiah. Judaism is a dead faith, regardless of who tries to continue in it. Its like dressing like a hippy or like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever: no matter how much out do it, its still out of style. ITS OVER!!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Your comment proves my point: "When you say "Christianity", you are talking about the falsehood and heresy of the Middle Ages, the many evil Popes, Greek Philosophy, and Antisemitism that plagued the early Church." You are looking at the flaws of it and are condemning it. True, Christianity wasn't the best thing to watch from our standpoint looking back at the Popes, but neither were the days of the Temples either. In fact, the Book of Acts weren't the best days of Christianity, for the best is yet to come.

Trevor, falsehood and heresey goes way back than the middle ages. Marcion, a "christian theologian", from the late first century to second century(85-160), was one of the guys responsible for removing Torah from Christianity. He also named them "Old & New Testaments" to promote his doctrine that the Torah was old and done away, and the new covenant, which according to him, does not include the Torah, is now in effect. The middle ages only enhanced the falsehood foundations from the 1st & 2nd centuries. The book of Acts actually shows the keeping of Torah.

Christianity does not turn down the Torah, but keeps it by living according to the Law of the Spirit, and not the Law of Moses (which was called by Paul the Law of sin and death).

Brother, there's no possible way to keep Torah without keeping it! You as a person must make the effort to keep Torah. Most Christians always say that they keep Torah according to the law of the spirit. The problem with that is they do not keep the Shabbat, feast days, food laws, etc. How does one keep Torah according to the spirit if one does not have to keep Torah? Does the spirit keep Torah for you? If so, what scripture shows that?

You are commanded to keep Torah Trevor, and that command has not changed, even when Yeshuah came. The Torah is included in the New Covenant, as shown in Jeremiah 31:31-34 & Hebrews 8:8-12. This cannot be danced around, or denied, less you want to be like Marcion, and X out Torah just because?


Christianity is the end of Judaism, because (again) Judaism is a faith that teaches you to wait for Messiah to come, but if you are Christian, you understand and live by the knowledge that the Temple of Solomon is over with and Christ is here to reign.

Ha Ha Ha. Judaism did not end with Christianity. Judaism always been, even before Yeshuah. Before He came, all of his Apostles were looking for him. He came to Nathan, and called him a true Israelite. Nathan kept Torah. Did he stop keeping it when Yeshuah came, and when he resurrected? Of course not! One thing I'd like for you to read, Trevor, is Isaiah 2, and Isaiah 66. These chapters show us that Torah will be the GOVERNMENT of the kingdom. Now, I know you'd hate that, so its better if you denounce Yeshuah now!

Don't you know that Yeshuah will judge you by Torah(Matt 7:21-23)? Those who have not kept Torah will be told to depart from Yeshuah, because they practiced lawlessness! Trevor, are you that one? Or will you make the decision to keep Torah as you're commanded?

The Law of Moses was kept with the Ark of the Covenant in mind. Pay close attention to the name: Ark of the Covenant, as in the OLD COVENANT. Christianity does not go by the old covenant, but the new covenant. To truly keep Judaism, you need that Ark and lamb's blood.

Trevor, let me enlighten you on what exactly was considered "old" by the book of Hebrews. You ready for the answer? It is the LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOOD. Sacrifices of bulls, goats, and animals were not sufficient to completely remove sin. Food laws, Shabbat, and the rest of Torah were not done away. Yeshuah taught and kept Torah, and he commanded that to his Apostles, even us, to teach and keep it.

keep in mind that it was Marcion that influenced Christianity with the "Old & New" Testaments. Paul surely did not do this. He taught Torah all through Acts. Torah is our standard of holiness, decreed in the New Covenant, and will be the government of the kingdom when it comes to earth in the new earth and heavens.

To keep the NEW covenant, you need the blood of the LAMB slain from the foundations of the world, JESUS the Messiah. Judaism is a dead faith, regardless of who tries to continue in it. Its like dressing like a hippy or like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever: no matter how much out do it, its still out of style. ITS OVER!!

The blood of Yeshuah was already decreed, along with Torah, in Jeremiah 31:31 & Hebrews 8:8-12. Yeshuah is the High Priest of this new covenant, which includes all the decrees. If Judaism, according to Yeshuah and the Apostles is a dead faith, then their keepings of Torah were in vain, and Yeshuah judging his people by Torah is a waste of time. Do not be deceived, Trevor. Only those who are obedient to Yehwah through Yeshuah, keeping Torah, and placing faith in Yeshuah for salvation, will be the ones that are accepted into the kingdom, and into eternal life.

I shall leave you with this. A gentleman asked Yeshuah what he should do to have eternal life. Yeshuah's response was,"Keep the commandments." Rev 22:14,"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Trevor, make sure that you are in the right with Yehwah by your obedient AND faith!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I must say your sarcasm in this is quite amusing at best. A lesser man would be insulted! Its all good though. All that you wrote proves that you still hold to the old traditions of Judaism, and not the Law of Christ and the fruit of the Spirit of GOD. True, the Law will be what people are judged by according to Revelation 20. However, your statements go beyond the words and meanings of the LORD JESUS and HIS Apostles & Prophets.

You do well to quote Hebrews 8:8-12. I cannot and did not deny the truth of it. However, according to Hebrews 8:13 (a verse you have so many times PURPOSELY excluded): "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Since this is not just a verse or two, but a whole epistle to the Hebrews, lets continue on to see what the writer said in Hebrews 9:

1Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7But into the second went the high priest alone once every year (speaking of keeping a Feast day, Yom Kippor), not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (showing the lack of power of the Sabbaths, food ordinances, feast days to free us from sin)
11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

One thing that is noted within the epistles of Paul (Apostle to the Gentiles), James & Peter (Apostles to the Jews), John, and Jude is that you cannot find ANY teaching of the keeping of Sabbaths at all! The epistles to the Romans, a guideline for new believers shows no indication of teaching of the keeping of Sabbaths, feasts, food regulations or anything like that. Neither do you find that in Ephesians, Galatians, or any epistle. In fact, Galatians tells them NOT to return to the old ways told to them by the Pharisees. You may try to say it only refers to circumcision, but look at how Paul spoke in 1st Corinthians 7:17-20

17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Tell me (as I asked this question before, but it was purposely ignored) how can one go from "circumcision to uncircumcision"? Was that a literal talk of the foreskin? You good and well it wasn't, but referred to the old covenant! GOD's OT covenant started with the Sabbath day and circumcision of Abraham. GOD's new covenant starts now with the blood of JESUS, and the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT. Those other things are the guidelines for an old deal that the writer of Hebrews clearly said (Hebrews 8:13) was "decayeth and waxeth old and ready to vanish away.".

I didn't write it I just quote it.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Isaiah 2:1-5:

2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 It shall come to pass in the latter days
that the mountain of the house of Yehwah
shall be established as the highest of the mountains,
and shall be lifted up above the hills;
and all the nations shall flow to it,
3 and many peoples shall come, and say:
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Yehwah,
to the house of the God of Jacob,
that he may teach us his ways
and that we may walk in his paths.”
For out of Zion shall go the Torah, [1]
and the word of Yehwah from Jerusalem.
4 He shall judge between the nations,
and shall decide disputes for many peoples;
and they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall they learn war anymore.

5 O house of Jacob,
come, let us walk
in the light of Yehwah.

Isaiah 66:22-23:

22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
that I make
shall remain before me, says Yehwah,
so shall your offspring and your name remain.
23 From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares Yehwah.

You want to quote scripture, then I will do it with you. The only thing that is done away are sacrifices of bulls and goats. That is what Hebrews is referring to. Again, you might wanna denoune Yeshuah if you do not want to keep Torah. If so, then come on home, brother!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You STILL did not answer my questions, nor did you quote N.T. scripture, but OT Prophetic shadows. I am not refuting the Prophets of old at all, but what I am saying is this: you cannot look at the events of June 23, 2009 accurately from the window of last June 23 2001. It will be a direct prophecy from GOD, true, but Apostle Paul said accurately "for we only know in part, and we prophesy in part". Therefore, no amount of OT Prophetic scriptures can interpret NT events. Its actually the opposite: NT scriptural doctrine from the Apostles interprets OT prophetic words. This is why I brought out epistles from the NT. The scriptures I used in NT actually quote the scriptures you are constantly using for your defense, but to be fair, if you want me to go OT:

-Isaiah 28:11-12 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear." This speaks of the event of the outpouring of the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT in Acts 2. The rest (Sabbath) of the new covenant was given here for the Church.

-Hosea 2:11-16 "I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her Sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them. And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD. Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi (meaning "my Husband"); and shalt call me no more Baali (meaning "my Master"). We are now called the "bride of CHRIST" now, so this is that day. It just so happens that in that day that we call GOD our husband, that HE also cause our feast days, and Sabbaths to cease!

Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, disciple of Apostle John, said this in the year 110 AD: "Those who have walked in ancient practices attain unto newness of hope, no longer observing Sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the LORD's Day, that we may be found disciples of JESUS CHRIST, our only Teacher."

The "Didache of the Apostles", is a document most scholars agree that the work, in its earliest form, may have circulated as early as the 60's C.E. Its interesting to know what the document said concerning the Sabbath and the LORD's Day: "Now according to the Lord's day, gather together and break bread and give thanks, after acknowledging your wanderings to one another, so your sacrifice would be a clean one. But each one who has something against his friend, do not let him come together with you until they are reconciled, so that your sacrifice would not be made common. For this is what was declared by the Lord: " In every place and time, carry to me a clean sacrifice. Because I am a great king," says Yahweh, " and my name is a wondrous thing among the nations."

One last NT scripture for you:

Revelation 22 shows that Sabbaths will not exists in the Kingdom, so how is the Sabbaths and the Law going to govern us?

The choice is yours: either Moses or CHRIST......