WOMEN OF GOD, ARE YOU REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE KEY ROLE THAT YOU OUGHT TO PLAY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?
Do we have to interpret the word of God or to believe simply what is written even if we do not understand it yet?
Doesn’t the interpretation of the Word of God come from the devil?
Didn’t he pervert the word of God formerly to induce in error Adam and Eve?
Doesn’t he still do it today?
WOMEN OF GOD, ARE YOU REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE KEY ROLE THAT YOU OUGHT TO PLAY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?
I am not a misogynist. I do have a mother and many sisters and I love women as I love my own relatives. I am not against the women but I would like that we probe the Holy Scriptures to see what must be the real position of the woman in the body of Christ. With this intention, we will analyze the point of view of a woman who is a senior Pastor.
First, let us know that the Bible recommends us not to go beyond what is written:
-“Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”
Proverbs 30:6
- “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain ».
1 Corinthians 15: 1-2
- “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ”.
Colossians 2:8
- Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
1 Corinthians 4:6
- “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation”,
1 Peter 2: 1-2
-“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
- “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Revelation 22:18-19
And so on…
We all are unanimous that the Word of God should not be object of a particular interpretation (2 Peter 1: 20-21, 2 Peter 3: 14-16).
We also agree that unity in the body of Christ is possible only around the truth:
“If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth”.
1 Timothy 3:15
“I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.”
1 John 2:21
“What does the Bible teach about the role of the women of Body of Messiah? Is it scriptural for a woman to teach, preach the word in the assembly? Is it scriptural for a woman to be in the "Office of" Apostle, Pastor, Bishop or Minister?”
A BIBLICAL QUESTION MUST HAVE A BIBLICAL ANSWER.
Let us analyze what a woman pastor thinks and gradually compare her remarks to that the Bible teaches:
(Refer to: https://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=916966%3ATopic%3A...).
The woman Pastor said:
“The black church as we know it is the only institution in the black community that is still the last one to do away with segregation and seperation, in the Black church we do not let our women in the pulpit i must be honest a women can preach to me she can't pastor me. I have not been converted on that issue yet.”
I thank you dear sister! As you see, she has not been converted on that issue yet. Thus, this issue should not be a taboo. We must discuss it frankly in the light of the Holy Scriptures.
In addition, the woman senior Pastor, after having quoted 1 Corinthians 11: 3-16, gave her interpretation of it:
“Scripture Interpretation:
1 tn Or “the husband is the head of his wife.” The same Greek words translated “man” and “woman” can mean, as determined by context, “husband” and “wife” respectively. Such an approach is followed by NAB, TEV, NRSV, and NLT (with some variations).
2 sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.). The Greek word he uses here (ἐξουσία exousia; translated symbol of authority) could be (1) a figure of speech that may substitute the result (the right to participate in worship) for the appropriate appearance that makes it possible (the covered head). Or (2) it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church).
3 sn Paul does not explain this reference to the angels, and its point is not entirely clear. It seems to reflect an awareness that angels are witnesses to church life (cf. Eph 3:10) and would be particularly sensitive to resistance against God’s created order.
4 sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.
5 sn No word for veil or head covering occurs in vv. 3-14 (see the note on authority in v. 10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in v. 15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. v. 10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. vv. 5, 6, 7, 10, 13). If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)? This suggests that the covering is not the sam »
I thank you dear sister! The woman Pastor supports the idea according to which” sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.).”
With all the respect that I owe her I would like to tell her that this assertion is false.
Let’s see what the bible declares:
“Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering » (1 Corinthians 11: 13-15)
The word used by Paul specifying the type of covering is meant is “hair”, the “long hair” of the woman. We need not make Greek or Latin studies to understand that. Let us take simply what the Bible says. God is always revealed in simplicity (Matthew 11:25):
“The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.”
Psalm 119:130
Do not see figure of speech (metaphors) everywhere. The phrase “Long Hair” means “Long Hair”.
Here’s the interpretation given by the woman Pastor to define the hair of the woman:
“…it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church)”.
This is a false interpretation of the Word of God. Let us see one of the passages of the Scriptures which deal with the inward attitude which a woman is to possess:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.”
1 Peter 3: 1-7
To define clearly what interior attitude a woman must have, did Paul need to use a metaphor here (in 1 Peter 3: 1-7)? No! Please do not add your point of view to the Word of God. The long hair of a woman is not the symbol of her inward attitude:
“Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight” (V. 3-4).
Since a man who requests or prophesies should not cover his head, can the woman Pastor tell me what is the outward symbol of the inward attitude of the man? Shouldn’t the man who requests or prophesies adopt the similar inward attitude like that of the woman?
“For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head” (V.10).
Truly speaking, it’s a physical sign and not an interior attitude.
It is neither a hat, nor a scarf or a piece of fabric but Paul refers to natural and long hair of the woman created by God Himself. As much God does not live in temples built by hands (Acts 17:24), under no circumstances would He take pleasure in a piece of fabric. He rather likes the natural hair of the woman.
Consequently, a woman should not cut off her hair. It is prohibited by God. Amen!
The woman Pastor said:
“sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.”
I thank you dear sister! Let’s see what Paul said: ” Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.”
The nature of things here means the natural world. There’s no metaphor here. No! Let us see what the same Paul said in his epistle to Romans about the nature of things:
“For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
Romans 1:20
God is revealed to humanity through the nature, I mean the natural world, then through His Son Jesus-Christ and through His Word, the Bible. To understand God, it is necessary to understand the laws which govern the natural things which are the works of His hands. Thus, according to this nature of the things a man should not behave like a woman. A woman also should not behave like a man. This is a disorder, even an abomination (as regards sexual relationship for example):
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Romans 1:26-27
In the same way, the nature teaches us that man should not have long hair but on the contrary the woman must have long hair because the hair was given to her by the Creator as her veil. This is simple to understand. There’s no figure of speech here. No! Leave the passages of the Scriptures in their contexts. Do not try to adapt them to the particular doctrines of your denominations. The Word of God is for God and God is his own interpreter.
The woman Pastor asked a question:
“If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)?
I thank you dear sister! A biblical verse is a whole. Do not take a part a verse to explain all the verse. Thus, I would like to ask you a question too. The answer of my question will be the answer of yours:
According to you, what does the other part of the verse 6 below, which you quoted mean?
The same verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 11 says: “If it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head”. What does it mean?
I’m waiting for your answer!
The woman senior pastor said:
“Let's Understanding “Headship”
By now you are, no doubt, asking the question, “But isn’t the husband the head of the wife?”
The answer to that question hinges on the translation of the Greek word kephale translated “head” in Ephesians 5:23 and 1 Corinthians 11:3, and whether it means “authority over” or “source of life.”
In the New Testament the word “head” (kephale) is used the same way as the word “head” (ro’sh) is in the Old Testament. It stands for “chief” in speaking of Christ as “head of the corner.” Matthew 21:42, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Peter 2:7 are all referring to Psalm 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.” To understand that verse one must understand the significance of the “chief cornerstone” of a building when the Psalmist penned those words.
In ancient times a huge stone was used as the headstone or cornerstone to give support to the entire building. The walls of the building were built in such a way that they wrapped around that chief cornerstone, giving the building the support that it needed. Christ is just that kind of support to the Church, binding its members together.
Ephesians 4:15, 16 says, But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects unto Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.
Colossians 1:16-18 reminds us,
For in Him all things were created (He gave life), both in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
There is that chief cornerstone, again, holding things together. Then those verses go on to say that even as He is the One who holds everything else together, “He is also head of the body, the Church.” In other words, He gives life to the Church and holds it together. This whole passage is not talking about “authority” but “source of life.”
Colossians 2:18, 19 tells us to
Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head from whom the entire body being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments grow with a growth which is from God.
Ephesians 1:20-23 speaking of Jesus, tells us that God . . . seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.
But the Church is not there under His feet in this Headship of government, but, rather, is at His side. As Ephesians 2:6 says we are “seated with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.” Further more, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus didn’t say, “This is My throne; keep away.” He said, “He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
All through these passages, Jesus is using the head/body metaphor and is speaking of the “head” as that which gives life to the body. None of these passages refer to Christ’s government. They represent Him as the supporter, nourisher, and builder of the body, not Her ruler. It is in this same way that man is the “head” of the wife.
Recent scholarship has increasingly concluded, after continued study of ancient biblical, secular, and medical writings, that kephale means “source of life” rather than “authority over.”
There are about 180 times in the Old Testament when the Hebrew word ro’sh clearly did mean “ruler,” “commander,” or “leader,” but the Septuagint translators rarely used kephale in translating these portions. They used other Greek words that more accurately defined “chief” when meaning a person of authority.
Kephale would have been the natural word to use in all the 180 instances if the word had been commonly understood to mean “leader or chief.” Its rare usage indicates that translators knew that kephale did not carry this meaning.10
Furthermore, examination of the seven passages where Paul used kephale in reference to Christ indicates that, when they are read with common Greek meanings of kephale, we see a more exalted Christ than when we read “head” primarily with the meaning of “authority over”.
11 Colossians 2:19 points to Christ as the source of life. Ephesians 4:15, 16 emphasize the unity of head and body and present Christ as the nourisher and source of growth.
Just as Christ personally brings His Church to perfection (Ephesians 4:11-13) by means of the five-fold ministry (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher) “for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ,” so the husband’s desire should be to build up his wife until she becomes all God intended her to be.
Whom Should We Obey?
Aren’t we supposed to obey Christ? Yes, absolutely, because He is God! He is KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS! But that is not what these verses are talking about. These verses aren’t dealing with His Lordship as One Who should be obeyed, but with the headship of Jesus, the One Who is the “Source of Life” for His Body.
The Greek word that clearly means authority is exousia, not kephale. Christ’s authority over the Church and over the world is established in other passages of Scripture which use this Greek word exousia.
Some examples are:
“But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – then He said to the paralytic, “Rise, take up your bed, and go home” (Matthew 9:6). And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth “ (Matthew 28:18).
For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man (John 5:26, 27).
In all three of these passages, the Greek word used is exousia, a word that does carry a clear meaning of authority.
However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
Jesus, in Matthew 20:25-28, made it very clear how fellow-disciples were to relate to one another. He said the Gentiles exercised authority over one another, but that it was not to be so among His followers. Rather, “whoever would be first let him be your servant.” This is the key to every relationship.
Philippians 2:3-8 admonishes, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus is the perfect example of One Who came to serve mankind, unworthy as we are. The problem with humanity, and even the Body of Christ today, is that there is more interest in having authority over people — that is, being “in charge” — than a desire to live in a position of humility and servanthood.
Each of us, as Christians in general and husbands and wives in particular, so desperately need to follow Jesus’ example and embrace the brokenness of servanthood rather than revel in the selfishness of being served.
Men lets understand gender bias. First we must truly understand the word of God and break traditions that make women second class citizens because of what you have heard and mis interpreted scriptures which support superiority over gender.
Does Male Headship Indicate Authority?
The Old Testament are husbands "placed in the position of `masters,' `owners,' and `lords' over their wives." In the New Testament, in contrast, the Greek word for "head" may mean either "master" or "source," and - although she does not explicitly say this, we must assume it for her argument to be complete - when used to denote the husband's relation to the wife, it means "source." First, neither Testament teaches that husbands ought to be owners of their wives. The New Testament, however, cites approvingly the fact that "Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord" as exemplary for Christian wives (1 Peter 3:6), whom it exhorts, "be submissive to your own husbands. . . . For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves [with "chaste and respectful behavior"], being submissive to their own husbands" (1 Peter 3:1, 5). “
I thank you dear sister for your biblical demonstration!
However, I’d like to tell you that the problem lies in the fact that God has established a hierarchisation of the things. But you are opposed to that and you want to dispute thus with God.
The bible declares that “…the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1Corinthians 11:3). Moreover: “…the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man (V.7-9).
You do not want to admit that the man is the chief of the woman but you recognize that he’s the matrimonial head of the woman. Speaking about man, you admit that his authority towards the woman means that God has given him the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
You said:” However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.”
I thank you dear sister! But isn't there a contradiction in your remarks? Do you think that the responsibility conferred to man by God is without authority? But why wasn’t this responsibility which consists on infusing life in somebody also entrusted to the woman? Why isn’t the woman a matrimonial head? Why? Read your Bible again. Don’t you know that this responsibility underlies authority? If the responsibility given to man by God to exert a ministry implies the authority of man, doesn’t the responsibility conferred to him by God imply also the authority of the man? ( 2 Corinthians 13:9-10, Ephesians 4: 11-12).
Brother Paul said:
“We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority-the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.”
2 Corinthians 13:9-10
Don’t you know that the authority that Christ exerts towards His church is comparable to that which must exert the man towards the woman?
Man has an authority which was conferred to him by God. But this authority does not consist in crushing the woman, but on the contrary in building her up. Amen!
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” AMEN!!!
Ephesians 5:22-24
Once again, let me tell you that there isn’t a metaphor here. Compared to man woman is a weaker partner?
“Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers”.
1 Peter 3:7
There’s no debate to be made in connection with the Authority of the man towards the woman since “…neither was man created for woman, but woman for man”
Man headship indicates Authority. Of course! Husbands ought to be owners of their wives according to the Bible (1 Peter 3: 6).
The woman senior Pastor said:
“In the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no longer exists, for as Galatians 3:28 states: `There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' (NIV). One does not represent the other."
To argue that this verse eliminates all legitimate differences in roles between men and women?
Including the fact that a woman is a proper spouse for a man but not for a woman and a man for a woman but not for a man?
If not, then we must learn what differences it does and does not eliminate from the immediate and larger context. It will not do simply to assert that this verse eliminates differences in authority and submission.
The context of Galatians 3:28 concerns salvation, with union with Christ. This, Paul concludes, comes about in the same way for every one - Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female - namely, by faith (Galatians 3:23-27). Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
I thank you dear sister! I’d like to tell you that in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women still exists: Indeed, Jesus-Christ said this:
“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:18-19
Why, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
If in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no more exists, tell me why Paul, a preacher of the new covenant, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies did refer to Genesis 3:16?
You are right when you say that” … one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33…”
These differences in roles are valid as well in the family as in the Church of Christ. The woman must adopt this same submissive attitude in her family as in the Assembly of the Saints. Because the Church starts in our houses (Titus 1:6-8; Titus 2:3-5).
However, what do you want to insinuate by the phrase: “Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
“… Without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28”?
Do you think that there’s a difference between Ephesians 5:22-33 and Galatians 3:28?
Isn't there a contradiction in your assertion? I believe that you have not understood Galatians 3:28 yet. As for the Holy Bible, it contains no contradiction! You need a revelation to understand the word of God!
What does Galatians 3: 28 say? It states that “WE ARE ALL ONE IN JESUS-CHRIST (Acts 15:8-9; Romans 3:21-31; 10: 12-13)
« There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3:28
Consequently: “So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”
2 Corinthians 5:16
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Romans 10:12-13
The unicity in the body of Christ does not mean the suppression of the question of gender bias. It does not mean that the man and the woman have from now on the same roles or the same attributions in Christ.
The body of Christ is made up of several members. Each member however has a determined role to carry out:
“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.”
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
The woman has a great role to play in the body of Christ. However, as we will further see she should not become a Pastor, an overseer of a church. No!!!! It’s the exclusive role of men called by God Himself. Amen!!!
If being a Pastor represents being a hand, then a woman who is a foot should not say:” Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:15)
If being a Pastor represents being an eye, then a woman who is an ear should not say:” Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:16)
O you women, recognize your position please!
If you usurp the place of the men, then you are comparable to members of the body of Christ which are opposed to the order established by God Himself.
In the same way, in Christ, the husband and the wife are called to live harmoniously, but the problems occur in the family when the latter refuses to recognize her place and breaks that order. Then instability takes place. I insist to say that the need of Harmony in the family doesn’t imply that the woman and the man should have the same position or authority. Their relation is guided by the complementarity. Woman is a helpmate for man. But man is the chief of woman. Here is the true harmony.
This is similar in the Church of the Lord. Woman should not dominate Man. There’s no difference between the home and the church:
” Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery -but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”
Ephesians 5:22-33
The woman Pastor said:
“There is a difference between your home and the church. Remember, God is the head of the church not man. Man is the head of the home.
This is often what we do with 1 Tim. 2:12, "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man" (NASB).
We make in biblical interpretation occurs when we take one isolated verse and build a doctrine around it - even if the verse seems to contradict other passages.
Most theologians believe that this passage was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus. They came to this conclusion after studying the myriad of references in the Bible to women in spiritual authority. The Old Testament records that Deborah was a judge over Israel, and God blessed her leadership in battle (see Judges 4-5). Other women who held authority over men include Miriam, Huldah and Noadiah.²
Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10), and both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Priscilla, Chloe and Phoebe were leaders in the early church, and one woman, Junia, is called an apostle by Paul (Rom. 16:7).
The promise of the prophet Joel was that "sons and daughters" would prophesy after the Holy Spirit was given to the church (Joel 2:28, emphasis added). Yet we have taken one misunderstood verse from Paul's writings and used it to negate hundreds of other passages that support the full release of women into ministry”.
I thank you dear sister. Please read Ephesians 5:22-33 carefully, and you’ll realize that there’s no difference between the home and the church.
Why has Paul prohibited women to teach, but asked them to remain silent in the churches?
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Simply because God is God of order. The preaching of the woman in the church is a disorder. Preaching in the church is not the role assigned by God to the woman.
You need a revelation to understand the Epistles of Paul which deal with the position of women in the assemblies. The old women can teach the young women. The women can exhort one another), of course!
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
They can testify as the Samaritan woman did:
"Come; see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?"
John 4:29
They can pray or prophesy (1 Corinthians 11:4-5).
However, they do not have the right to be put behind the pulpit to teach the Word of God, in the Assemblies of the Saints, in the presence of the men and the women. I think that the Bible is sufficiently clear.
If Peter were alive He would take part in this discussion by saying this:
"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction".
2 Peter 3:14-16
Moreover, tell me why speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
Why? Tell me why?
Paul knew that the man and the woman were equal at the beginning. But the woman lost this position after the transgression (original sin). Since this time the man was to dominate the woman. It was a consecutive punishment of the sin of the woman. Paul knew that this imposed sanction with regard of the woman was always in force in the new covenant because the law was not abolished (Matthew 5:18), but Jesus-Christ came to perfect it.
This is not a simple opinion of Paul but he took care to specify the motivation or the biblical base of what he said. He even insisted to say that it was the “Lord’s command”.
O you women, do you want to obey the command of the Lord or on the contrary, do you want obstinately to fulfil your own will? Do as you think fit, but let me tell you that the Word of God is immutable. You ought to comply. It’s not the Word of God who owes to adapt to your suitabilities.
You said that “most theologians believe that this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus.” Let me tell you therefore that this is their own belief, their own feeling, their own thought. It’s not what the Bible truly says.
The Bible says that:
« All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Please tell me, were the verses 9 and 10 of the same chapter 2 of Timothy, related to woman’s clothing also addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus? I don’t think so!
If this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus, why did Paul refer to Genesis 3:16?
You said that in the Old Testament Deborah held authority over men. Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel. Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do. The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).
A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.
Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war. The attitude of Barak was to some extent an escape of responsibility, a disengagement. Men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak: “Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)
Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:
"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)
Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!
Authority belongs to man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an extract of her canticle:
“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”
(Judges 5:7)
Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!
Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!
Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.
Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.
You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are mothers.
The Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:15
This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.
Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
1 Peter 3:1-6
The woman senior Pastor said that “Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10)”
Please, tell me can commission issued to women make them Pastors or Evangelists? No!
For example, can we assert that the Samaritan woman was a Pastor an Evangelist (John 4: 28-30)?
I don’t think so! Admittedly she was not sent by Jesus but she also made a testimony concerning Jesus-Christ.
Then you said that “… both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)”
Is it what the Bible truly says? No!
Admittedly, all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them, but only the twelve disciples (MEN ONLY) were entitled to teach on the day Pentecost:
“Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”
Acts 2:14
Please, Show me in the Bible where a woman has been called an Evangelist or a Pastor!
Please show me!!!
In the Bible, Philippe (A MAN) was the only one who has been called “EVANGELIST” expressly:
« Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the EVANGELIST, one of the Seven.”
Acts 21:8
Timothy (A MAN) as for him was exhorted to make work of an EVANGELIST:
« But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry”.
2 Timothy 4:5
Moreover, the Overseer or the Bishop of an assembly must be a MAN:
“Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the HUSBAND of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.”
1 Timothy 3:1-7
“The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, the HUSBAND of but one wife, a MAN whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless - not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
Titus 1:5-9
In Israel were there women among the descendants of Levi who became priests? No!
“Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people - that is, their brothers - even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. This MAN, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by MEN who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham”.
Hebrews 7:5-9
Let me tell you that God was against and He is still against women being overseers and holding authority over men. AMEN!
The prophets established by God in the church belong to the five ministries (Ephesians 4:11). The gift of prophecy is one of the nine gifts of the Spirit (1Corinthians 12).
In the Old Testament, are mentioned the prophetess Miriam (Exodus 15), the prophetess Deborah (Judges 4), the prophetess Hulda (2 Kings 22), the prophetess to whom Isaiah went (Isaiah 8:3) and so on.
In the New Testament we can mention the prophetess Anna (Luke 2: 36-38).
But none of those women has become an Overseer in the church. Anna was not a Teacher or an Overseer; she never left the temple though. She worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Can we insinuate that Anna was an Overseer because she never left the temple? No! Anna knew her place in the church. She interceded to support the work of God. Women, this is what you must do instead of running towards the Pulpit. Please leave the pulpit; it’s not your place!
Your duty is to pray, to intercede night and day in order to support the men of God as Priscilla and Aquila did aside Paul.
Woman’s place is behind.
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
Yes, woman’s place is behind!
All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.
All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).
The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.
No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.
Phoebe was a servant, namely a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). She was not a Pastor.
Priscilla and Aquila were fellow workers of Paul (Romans 16:3).
For example, Deborah was the felow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!
It was the same thing for Priscilla and Aquila aside Paul. Being felow workers of Paul doesn’t necessarily mean that they were leaders in the early church. No!
You said that a woman (“Junia”) was called an “Apostle” by Paul. There’s no contradiction in the Bible.
This is what the Bible truly says:
”Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.”
Romans 16:7
The Bible, The New International Version says “JUNIAS”. “JUNIAS” is a Latin name. Junias was a Man, a Christian of Rome, relative and ancient companion of captivity of Paul.
No woman was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul.
Let’s meditate the article below:
“The First Woman Apostle – So-called
By WAYNE JACKSON
October 31, 2005
Junia—The First Woman Apostle is the title of a book by Lutheran scholar Eldon Jay Epp. According to a recent edition of Christian News (10/3/05, pp. 1ff), Epp is Harness Professor of Biblical Literature emeritus and Dean of Humanities and Social Sciences emeritus at Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, OH). He is also recent Visiting Professor of New Testament at Harvard Divinity School (2002-03; 2004-05). Epp is associated with a very liberal element of the Lutheran fellowship, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, a community that promotes “women clergy.”
Epp’s book is alleged to be the “last word” regarding the controversy as to whether “Junia” (feminine, KJV), or “Junias” (masculine, ASV), as mentioned in Romans 16:7, was a female or male. And if a female, whether she was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul. But Professor Epp’s “last word,” we insist, is not, in fact, the “last word.”
In the first place, in the Greek text the name is Junian (in the accusative case - the gender of the name not being identifiable). It could either be Junia (feminine), or Junias (masculine). Lightfoot contended that the term reflects “probably a man’s name, Junias contracted from Junianus, as it is taken by Origen” (p. 96). Origen was a “Christian” writer who is dated from c. A.D. 185-253. On the other hand, Chrysostom (c. A.D. 347-407) identifies the name as that of a woman.
Even some conservative scholars, however, argue that Junia (English, Julia) is correct, and there are a couple of compelling points in this direction, though they are not decisive.
First, early church history more commonly identified the name with a woman - up to the 13th century. Second, the name Junias (masculine) does not appear in early secular inscriptional evidence. In response, however, it might be noted first that from the 13th century to the mid-20th century, this person was perceived to be a man (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV). Many scholars could be introduced advancing this idea. While “Junias” apparently does not appear in the ancient inscriptions, Junianos is a very common name. A.T. Robertson contended that Junias could be an abbreviation of Junianos (p. 172). Such would be analogous to Lucas for Lucanus, and Silas, as an abbreviation for Silvanus.
But the fact is, the case that Epp and a few others are attempting to make for feminine leadership in the church really does not turn upon whether or not Junian is masculine or feminine.
Additionally, it is by no means certain that Junias is even identified as an “apostle.” The phrase “of note among the apostles” (ASV) is rendered by Zahn as “famed, mentioned with honor in the circle of the apostles” (p. 418), giving the sense of being well - known by the apostles, rather than actually being identified as an apostle. Moule renders it, “well known to, and honored by the Apostles” (p. 248). Various other scholars argue similarly. Note the English Standard Version, “well known to the apostles.”
Then consider this. The word “apostle” is used occasionally in the Bible in a non-technical sense to denote simply a messenger. Jesus said that “one sent” (apostolos) is not greater than the sender (John 13:16). In a general sense Christ himself was an “apostle” (Hebrews 3:1), i.e., one sent from heaven. Barnabas, Silvanus, and Timothy also were designated as “apostles” (Acts 14:4,14; 1 Thessalonians 2:6), though not in the same authoritative sense as the Twelve and Paul.
Then the following point devastates Epp’s thesis. If the name is “Junia,” (a woman), and this lady was an apostle with authority equivalent to that of Paul himself, then Paul is hopelessly in conflict with his own writings.
An apostle of Christ spoke or wrote with full authority, and numerous examples from Paul’s own writings clearly illustrate this. Note, for example, in the letters to Timothy, the expression, “I charge you.” (1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:1,14). The expression signifies “to exhort with authority in matters of extraordinary importance” (Danker, p. 233).
Yet elsewhere Paul explicitly forbids a woman to “exercise authority over a man” (1 Timothy 2:12). Does the apostle commend in one place what he prohibits in another? No respectable Bible student would dare defend such a proposition.
Epp, however, in a typically modernistic fashion, dismisses this passage as non-Pauline. Allegedly, the text is the work of a later writer who thrust his views relative to the “subordination of women” into the sacred text. This idiosyncratic view was not held in antiquity by those best qualified to know the authorship of the book, and it has been exposed many times by conservative scholars (see Mounce, pp. cxviiiff).
Finally, if “Junia,” a woman, was an official “apostle,” with the prominence and authority comparable to Peter or Paul, why, pray tell, is “she” never mentioned again in the entire New Testament, or at least, if only once, in a text that is non-ambiguous, so that it clearly establishes the case that liberalism so desperately desires? This is telling indeed. And why would Paul need to go to Rome, to impart to the saints there “some spiritual gift” (Romans 1:11), when, allegedly, there already was an apostle there who could handle that chore?
Sources/Footnotes
Danker, F.W. et al. (2000), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Chicago: University of Chicago).
Lightfoot, J.B. (1957 Reprint), The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (Grand Rapids: Zondervan).
Moule, H.C.G. (1977 Reprint), Studies in Romans (Grand Rapids: Kregel).
Mounce, Willian D. (2000), Pastoral Epistles—Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson).
Robertson, A.T. (1919), A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (London: Hodder & Stoughton).
Zahn, Theodor (1909), Introduction to the New Testament (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark), Vol. 1.
Source:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1073-the-first-woman-apost...”
Let us meditate an other article:
“Men and Women in Ministry: Was Junias a Female Apostle?
In Paul’s greetings to the saints in Rome , he includes the following:
“Greet Andronicus and Junia [or Junias], my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me” (ESV; Romans 16:7).
Some translations render this, “well known among the apostles,” thus implying that both Andronicas and Junia were themselves apostles. There are several questions that must be addressed.
First, is Junias masculine or feminine? If feminine, then they are most likely husband and wife. Recent examination of extensive Greek literature outside the Bible gives little help. The word Junias turned up only twice as a woman's name and only once as a man's name. If Junias is a woman, do we have reference here to a female apostle? If so, it would be difficult to restrict women from holding senior governmental authority in the local church insofar as the office of apostle in the New Testament was the pinnacle of spiritual authority.
Second, how should we translate the passage: “well known to the apostles” or “well known among the apostles”? The latter would suggest that Andronicus and Junias were themselves apostles, well known in that unique circle of believers. The former would suggest that the apostles, such as Paul, knew these two people quite well.
The point has been made that "since Andronicus and Junias were Christians before Paul was, it may be that their longstanding ministry (reaching back before Paul's) is precisely what Paul might have in mind when he says 'of note among the apostles.' They may well have been known among the apostles before Paul was even converted" (Piper/Grudem, 80).
However, recent analysis of the grammar of this text (see M. H. Burer and D. B. Wallace, “Was Junias Really an Apostle? A Reexamination of Romans 16:7,” New Testament Studies 47 [2001]:76-91) has demonstrated that this particular construction should be rendered “well known to the apostles.” There is, therefore, no support for the idea that Junias, whether male or female, was herself/himself(?) an apostle.
Third, we must take into consideration how the word “apostle” is used in the NT. It is actually used in four senses: 1) of Jesus as The Apostle; 2) of the original twelve (with Matthias having replaced Judas Iscariot); 3) of Paul and perhaps 5 or 6 others (Silas, Barnabas, James; cf. 1 Thess. 2:6; Gal. 1:19; 1 Cor. 15:7; Acts 14:4,14); a technical use of a restricted group; and 4) a general use of many individuals who were "sent out" by a church as a delegated representative or messenger (cf. 2 Cor. 8:23; Phil. 2:25). If it can be demonstrated that Andronicus and (his wife?) Junias were "apostles", and given the nature of the grammar this is highly unlikely, it would likely be only in this fourth sense.
Thus I find no support in this passage for the suggestion that women held the apostolic office in the NT and thus exercised spiritual authority over the entire church body.
Source:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/men-and-women-in-minis...
A woman can prophesy according to Joel 2:28 and 1 Corinthians 11: 4-5 but, she is not entitled to oversee a church. No!
The woman senior Pastor said:
“1st Corinthians 14:34-35 seems to be talking about unity not the role of women in the church. If a house is divided, it will fall.
The Corinthian Culture and its laws
Well, I decided to study the Corinthian culture and its laws. It clearly states that women could not answer questions in public. The set in the temple: men sat in the front and the women were in the back. The temple did not have speakers or microphones. So this made hearing the teachings of the Bible hard for a NEW Convert (The Corinthian Women).
The men were educated not the women. Anything that a women needs to know they must ask their husband.
NEW Converts: The Corinthian Women apparently, some women felt it was their right as Christian to ask questions in public, of course the Law did not permits this. This cause division in the church/Temple! In addition, in those times women were not taught religion and other skills for survival as thoroughly as men were. Paul basically, saying that any questions you have, ask your husband at home not during worship service.
Disobedience: Corinthian Men
Why the men disobey the Word which was taught by the Priest? 1st Corinthians 14:35 “And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church."
The men in the Corinthian culture believe the less women knew; more power they had.
Let’s look at the world NOW: Iran, Iraq, Turkey and many other third World countries who see women as second class citizens. Also, other non-Christian cultures believe the same way. Women should not know anything unless the men tell them. Because of this mentality the world is going to Hell with discrimination against man kind. When we as a people do not follow God Plan then destruction occurs.
It was about control not unity.
Part II
1Timothy2: 12, this passage has been interpreted fit need when others want to exercise their power. This scripture clearly prohibited the Ephesians women, not all women from teaching. Again, having knowledge of the Word or Maturity! Paul never forbids women from teaching. He commend co-worker Priscilla, taught Apollo’s, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26), Phoebe worked in the church (Romans 16:1) Mary, Tryphena and Tryphisa were the Lord’s workers (Roman 16:6,12) as Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2). They are many other women who held important roles in the church.
Genesis 1:27; justify women called into ministry, be the Father. When you disobey the Word, you are disobeying God.
Denominational Doctrine does not equal to any men account of what a women should be doing as a Christian according to men standards. I feel that when we start judging what God has already spoken. We are walking in disobedience. »
I thank you dear sister. But I think that your analysis above is a particular interpretation of the Word of God. The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.
Let’s see what Paul said:
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?
Paul truly said:
1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”
What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.
2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”
The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.
This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.
Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!
The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)
3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”
Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)
4- “The Lord's command”
What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15
Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!
The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).
That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on. And it’s valid for the women of today.
Priscilla never taught Apollos (Acts 18:24-26).
The Bible truly says that “Priscilla and Aquila heard him; they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.”
An explanation given to a man of God could not make Priscilla and her husband Pastors. A simple member of a church can explain something to any one more adequately. I’m not a Pastor but I’m preaching on the Black preaching network. I’m explaining to women of God the way of God adequately. Am I not?
Moreover, Genesis 1:27 can never justify women called into ministry. It’s true that God created male and female. But the Woman is a weaker partner (1 Peter 3:7). Her place is behind.
When she does anything that is contrary to the word of God she is walking in disobedience:
« Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling”.
Revelation 2: 20-21
We need to be living by the word. Anyone is saying that women are not being used in the body of Christ. The scriptures are clear about the roles of women: They must be good mothers as Deborah. They can prophesy. They should pray. They ought to fast and intercede (pray) day and night as Anna did to support the Work of God.
They should also imitate those women who were helping to support Jesus-Christ and the twelve out of their own means (Luke 8:1-3).
Woman, this is your position!
“He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
John 8:47
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Revelation 3:22
May God bless you!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
Doesn’t the interpretation of the Word of God come from the devil?
Didn’t he pervert the word of God formerly to induce in error Adam and Eve?
Doesn’t he still do it today?
WOMEN OF GOD, ARE YOU REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE KEY ROLE THAT YOU OUGHT TO PLAY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?
I am not a misogynist. I do have a mother and many sisters and I love women as I love my own relatives. I am not against the women but I would like that we probe the Holy Scriptures to see what must be the real position of the woman in the body of Christ. With this intention, we will analyze the point of view of a woman who is a senior Pastor.
First, let us know that the Bible recommends us not to go beyond what is written:
-“Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”
Proverbs 30:6
- “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain ».
1 Corinthians 15: 1-2
- “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ”.
Colossians 2:8
- Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
1 Corinthians 4:6
- “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation”,
1 Peter 2: 1-2
-“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
- “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Revelation 22:18-19
And so on…
We all are unanimous that the Word of God should not be object of a particular interpretation (2 Peter 1: 20-21, 2 Peter 3: 14-16).
We also agree that unity in the body of Christ is possible only around the truth:
“If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth”.
1 Timothy 3:15
“I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.”
1 John 2:21
“What does the Bible teach about the role of the women of Body of Messiah? Is it scriptural for a woman to teach, preach the word in the assembly? Is it scriptural for a woman to be in the "Office of" Apostle, Pastor, Bishop or Minister?”
A BIBLICAL QUESTION MUST HAVE A BIBLICAL ANSWER.
Let us analyze what a woman pastor thinks and gradually compare her remarks to that the Bible teaches:
(Refer to: https://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=916966%3ATopic%3A...).
The woman Pastor said:
“The black church as we know it is the only institution in the black community that is still the last one to do away with segregation and seperation, in the Black church we do not let our women in the pulpit i must be honest a women can preach to me she can't pastor me. I have not been converted on that issue yet.”
I thank you dear sister! As you see, she has not been converted on that issue yet. Thus, this issue should not be a taboo. We must discuss it frankly in the light of the Holy Scriptures.
In addition, the woman senior Pastor, after having quoted 1 Corinthians 11: 3-16, gave her interpretation of it:
“Scripture Interpretation:
1 tn Or “the husband is the head of his wife.” The same Greek words translated “man” and “woman” can mean, as determined by context, “husband” and “wife” respectively. Such an approach is followed by NAB, TEV, NRSV, and NLT (with some variations).
2 sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.). The Greek word he uses here (ἐξουσία exousia; translated symbol of authority) could be (1) a figure of speech that may substitute the result (the right to participate in worship) for the appropriate appearance that makes it possible (the covered head). Or (2) it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church).
3 sn Paul does not explain this reference to the angels, and its point is not entirely clear. It seems to reflect an awareness that angels are witnesses to church life (cf. Eph 3:10) and would be particularly sensitive to resistance against God’s created order.
4 sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.
5 sn No word for veil or head covering occurs in vv. 3-14 (see the note on authority in v. 10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in v. 15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. v. 10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. vv. 5, 6, 7, 10, 13). If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)? This suggests that the covering is not the sam »
I thank you dear sister! The woman Pastor supports the idea according to which” sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.).”
With all the respect that I owe her I would like to tell her that this assertion is false.
Let’s see what the bible declares:
“Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering » (1 Corinthians 11: 13-15)
The word used by Paul specifying the type of covering is meant is “hair”, the “long hair” of the woman. We need not make Greek or Latin studies to understand that. Let us take simply what the Bible says. God is always revealed in simplicity (Matthew 11:25):
“The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.”
Psalm 119:130
Do not see figure of speech (metaphors) everywhere. The phrase “Long Hair” means “Long Hair”.
Here’s the interpretation given by the woman Pastor to define the hair of the woman:
“…it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church)”.
This is a false interpretation of the Word of God. Let us see one of the passages of the Scriptures which deal with the inward attitude which a woman is to possess:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.”
1 Peter 3: 1-7
To define clearly what interior attitude a woman must have, did Paul need to use a metaphor here (in 1 Peter 3: 1-7)? No! Please do not add your point of view to the Word of God. The long hair of a woman is not the symbol of her inward attitude:
“Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight” (V. 3-4).
Since a man who requests or prophesies should not cover his head, can the woman Pastor tell me what is the outward symbol of the inward attitude of the man? Shouldn’t the man who requests or prophesies adopt the similar inward attitude like that of the woman?
“For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head” (V.10).
Truly speaking, it’s a physical sign and not an interior attitude.
It is neither a hat, nor a scarf or a piece of fabric but Paul refers to natural and long hair of the woman created by God Himself. As much God does not live in temples built by hands (Acts 17:24), under no circumstances would He take pleasure in a piece of fabric. He rather likes the natural hair of the woman.
Consequently, a woman should not cut off her hair. It is prohibited by God. Amen!
The woman Pastor said:
“sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.”
I thank you dear sister! Let’s see what Paul said: ” Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.”
The nature of things here means the natural world. There’s no metaphor here. No! Let us see what the same Paul said in his epistle to Romans about the nature of things:
“For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
Romans 1:20
God is revealed to humanity through the nature, I mean the natural world, then through His Son Jesus-Christ and through His Word, the Bible. To understand God, it is necessary to understand the laws which govern the natural things which are the works of His hands. Thus, according to this nature of the things a man should not behave like a woman. A woman also should not behave like a man. This is a disorder, even an abomination (as regards sexual relationship for example):
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Romans 1:26-27
In the same way, the nature teaches us that man should not have long hair but on the contrary the woman must have long hair because the hair was given to her by the Creator as her veil. This is simple to understand. There’s no figure of speech here. No! Leave the passages of the Scriptures in their contexts. Do not try to adapt them to the particular doctrines of your denominations. The Word of God is for God and God is his own interpreter.
The woman Pastor asked a question:
“If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)?
I thank you dear sister! A biblical verse is a whole. Do not take a part a verse to explain all the verse. Thus, I would like to ask you a question too. The answer of my question will be the answer of yours:
According to you, what does the other part of the verse 6 below, which you quoted mean?
The same verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 11 says: “If it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head”. What does it mean?
I’m waiting for your answer!
The woman senior pastor said:
“Let's Understanding “Headship”
By now you are, no doubt, asking the question, “But isn’t the husband the head of the wife?”
The answer to that question hinges on the translation of the Greek word kephale translated “head” in Ephesians 5:23 and 1 Corinthians 11:3, and whether it means “authority over” or “source of life.”
In the New Testament the word “head” (kephale) is used the same way as the word “head” (ro’sh) is in the Old Testament. It stands for “chief” in speaking of Christ as “head of the corner.” Matthew 21:42, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Peter 2:7 are all referring to Psalm 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.” To understand that verse one must understand the significance of the “chief cornerstone” of a building when the Psalmist penned those words.
In ancient times a huge stone was used as the headstone or cornerstone to give support to the entire building. The walls of the building were built in such a way that they wrapped around that chief cornerstone, giving the building the support that it needed. Christ is just that kind of support to the Church, binding its members together.
Ephesians 4:15, 16 says, But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects unto Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.
Colossians 1:16-18 reminds us,
For in Him all things were created (He gave life), both in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
There is that chief cornerstone, again, holding things together. Then those verses go on to say that even as He is the One who holds everything else together, “He is also head of the body, the Church.” In other words, He gives life to the Church and holds it together. This whole passage is not talking about “authority” but “source of life.”
Colossians 2:18, 19 tells us to
Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head from whom the entire body being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments grow with a growth which is from God.
Ephesians 1:20-23 speaking of Jesus, tells us that God . . . seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.
But the Church is not there under His feet in this Headship of government, but, rather, is at His side. As Ephesians 2:6 says we are “seated with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.” Further more, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus didn’t say, “This is My throne; keep away.” He said, “He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
All through these passages, Jesus is using the head/body metaphor and is speaking of the “head” as that which gives life to the body. None of these passages refer to Christ’s government. They represent Him as the supporter, nourisher, and builder of the body, not Her ruler. It is in this same way that man is the “head” of the wife.
Recent scholarship has increasingly concluded, after continued study of ancient biblical, secular, and medical writings, that kephale means “source of life” rather than “authority over.”
There are about 180 times in the Old Testament when the Hebrew word ro’sh clearly did mean “ruler,” “commander,” or “leader,” but the Septuagint translators rarely used kephale in translating these portions. They used other Greek words that more accurately defined “chief” when meaning a person of authority.
Kephale would have been the natural word to use in all the 180 instances if the word had been commonly understood to mean “leader or chief.” Its rare usage indicates that translators knew that kephale did not carry this meaning.10
Furthermore, examination of the seven passages where Paul used kephale in reference to Christ indicates that, when they are read with common Greek meanings of kephale, we see a more exalted Christ than when we read “head” primarily with the meaning of “authority over”.
11 Colossians 2:19 points to Christ as the source of life. Ephesians 4:15, 16 emphasize the unity of head and body and present Christ as the nourisher and source of growth.
Just as Christ personally brings His Church to perfection (Ephesians 4:11-13) by means of the five-fold ministry (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher) “for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ,” so the husband’s desire should be to build up his wife until she becomes all God intended her to be.
Whom Should We Obey?
Aren’t we supposed to obey Christ? Yes, absolutely, because He is God! He is KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS! But that is not what these verses are talking about. These verses aren’t dealing with His Lordship as One Who should be obeyed, but with the headship of Jesus, the One Who is the “Source of Life” for His Body.
The Greek word that clearly means authority is exousia, not kephale. Christ’s authority over the Church and over the world is established in other passages of Scripture which use this Greek word exousia.
Some examples are:
“But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – then He said to the paralytic, “Rise, take up your bed, and go home” (Matthew 9:6). And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth “ (Matthew 28:18).
For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man (John 5:26, 27).
In all three of these passages, the Greek word used is exousia, a word that does carry a clear meaning of authority.
However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
Jesus, in Matthew 20:25-28, made it very clear how fellow-disciples were to relate to one another. He said the Gentiles exercised authority over one another, but that it was not to be so among His followers. Rather, “whoever would be first let him be your servant.” This is the key to every relationship.
Philippians 2:3-8 admonishes, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus is the perfect example of One Who came to serve mankind, unworthy as we are. The problem with humanity, and even the Body of Christ today, is that there is more interest in having authority over people — that is, being “in charge” — than a desire to live in a position of humility and servanthood.
Each of us, as Christians in general and husbands and wives in particular, so desperately need to follow Jesus’ example and embrace the brokenness of servanthood rather than revel in the selfishness of being served.
Men lets understand gender bias. First we must truly understand the word of God and break traditions that make women second class citizens because of what you have heard and mis interpreted scriptures which support superiority over gender.
Does Male Headship Indicate Authority?
The Old Testament are husbands "placed in the position of `masters,' `owners,' and `lords' over their wives." In the New Testament, in contrast, the Greek word for "head" may mean either "master" or "source," and - although she does not explicitly say this, we must assume it for her argument to be complete - when used to denote the husband's relation to the wife, it means "source." First, neither Testament teaches that husbands ought to be owners of their wives. The New Testament, however, cites approvingly the fact that "Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord" as exemplary for Christian wives (1 Peter 3:6), whom it exhorts, "be submissive to your own husbands. . . . For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves [with "chaste and respectful behavior"], being submissive to their own husbands" (1 Peter 3:1, 5). “
I thank you dear sister for your biblical demonstration!
However, I’d like to tell you that the problem lies in the fact that God has established a hierarchisation of the things. But you are opposed to that and you want to dispute thus with God.
The bible declares that “…the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1Corinthians 11:3). Moreover: “…the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man (V.7-9).
You do not want to admit that the man is the chief of the woman but you recognize that he’s the matrimonial head of the woman. Speaking about man, you admit that his authority towards the woman means that God has given him the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
You said:” However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.”
I thank you dear sister! But isn't there a contradiction in your remarks? Do you think that the responsibility conferred to man by God is without authority? But why wasn’t this responsibility which consists on infusing life in somebody also entrusted to the woman? Why isn’t the woman a matrimonial head? Why? Read your Bible again. Don’t you know that this responsibility underlies authority? If the responsibility given to man by God to exert a ministry implies the authority of man, doesn’t the responsibility conferred to him by God imply also the authority of the man? ( 2 Corinthians 13:9-10, Ephesians 4: 11-12).
Brother Paul said:
“We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority-the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.”
2 Corinthians 13:9-10
Don’t you know that the authority that Christ exerts towards His church is comparable to that which must exert the man towards the woman?
Man has an authority which was conferred to him by God. But this authority does not consist in crushing the woman, but on the contrary in building her up. Amen!
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” AMEN!!!
Ephesians 5:22-24
Once again, let me tell you that there isn’t a metaphor here. Compared to man woman is a weaker partner?
“Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers”.
1 Peter 3:7
There’s no debate to be made in connection with the Authority of the man towards the woman since “…neither was man created for woman, but woman for man”
Man headship indicates Authority. Of course! Husbands ought to be owners of their wives according to the Bible (1 Peter 3: 6).
The woman senior Pastor said:
“In the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no longer exists, for as Galatians 3:28 states: `There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' (NIV). One does not represent the other."
To argue that this verse eliminates all legitimate differences in roles between men and women?
Including the fact that a woman is a proper spouse for a man but not for a woman and a man for a woman but not for a man?
If not, then we must learn what differences it does and does not eliminate from the immediate and larger context. It will not do simply to assert that this verse eliminates differences in authority and submission.
The context of Galatians 3:28 concerns salvation, with union with Christ. This, Paul concludes, comes about in the same way for every one - Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female - namely, by faith (Galatians 3:23-27). Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
I thank you dear sister! I’d like to tell you that in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women still exists: Indeed, Jesus-Christ said this:
“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:18-19
Why, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
If in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no more exists, tell me why Paul, a preacher of the new covenant, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies did refer to Genesis 3:16?
You are right when you say that” … one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33…”
These differences in roles are valid as well in the family as in the Church of Christ. The woman must adopt this same submissive attitude in her family as in the Assembly of the Saints. Because the Church starts in our houses (Titus 1:6-8; Titus 2:3-5).
However, what do you want to insinuate by the phrase: “Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
“… Without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28”?
Do you think that there’s a difference between Ephesians 5:22-33 and Galatians 3:28?
Isn't there a contradiction in your assertion? I believe that you have not understood Galatians 3:28 yet. As for the Holy Bible, it contains no contradiction! You need a revelation to understand the word of God!
What does Galatians 3: 28 say? It states that “WE ARE ALL ONE IN JESUS-CHRIST (Acts 15:8-9; Romans 3:21-31; 10: 12-13)
« There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3:28
Consequently: “So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”
2 Corinthians 5:16
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Romans 10:12-13
The unicity in the body of Christ does not mean the suppression of the question of gender bias. It does not mean that the man and the woman have from now on the same roles or the same attributions in Christ.
The body of Christ is made up of several members. Each member however has a determined role to carry out:
“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.”
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
The woman has a great role to play in the body of Christ. However, as we will further see she should not become a Pastor, an overseer of a church. No!!!! It’s the exclusive role of men called by God Himself. Amen!!!
If being a Pastor represents being a hand, then a woman who is a foot should not say:” Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:15)
If being a Pastor represents being an eye, then a woman who is an ear should not say:” Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:16)
O you women, recognize your position please!
If you usurp the place of the men, then you are comparable to members of the body of Christ which are opposed to the order established by God Himself.
In the same way, in Christ, the husband and the wife are called to live harmoniously, but the problems occur in the family when the latter refuses to recognize her place and breaks that order. Then instability takes place. I insist to say that the need of Harmony in the family doesn’t imply that the woman and the man should have the same position or authority. Their relation is guided by the complementarity. Woman is a helpmate for man. But man is the chief of woman. Here is the true harmony.
This is similar in the Church of the Lord. Woman should not dominate Man. There’s no difference between the home and the church:
” Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery -but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”
Ephesians 5:22-33
The woman Pastor said:
“There is a difference between your home and the church. Remember, God is the head of the church not man. Man is the head of the home.
This is often what we do with 1 Tim. 2:12, "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man" (NASB).
We make in biblical interpretation occurs when we take one isolated verse and build a doctrine around it - even if the verse seems to contradict other passages.
Most theologians believe that this passage was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus. They came to this conclusion after studying the myriad of references in the Bible to women in spiritual authority. The Old Testament records that Deborah was a judge over Israel, and God blessed her leadership in battle (see Judges 4-5). Other women who held authority over men include Miriam, Huldah and Noadiah.²
Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10), and both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Priscilla, Chloe and Phoebe were leaders in the early church, and one woman, Junia, is called an apostle by Paul (Rom. 16:7).
The promise of the prophet Joel was that "sons and daughters" would prophesy after the Holy Spirit was given to the church (Joel 2:28, emphasis added). Yet we have taken one misunderstood verse from Paul's writings and used it to negate hundreds of other passages that support the full release of women into ministry”.
I thank you dear sister. Please read Ephesians 5:22-33 carefully, and you’ll realize that there’s no difference between the home and the church.
Why has Paul prohibited women to teach, but asked them to remain silent in the churches?
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Simply because God is God of order. The preaching of the woman in the church is a disorder. Preaching in the church is not the role assigned by God to the woman.
You need a revelation to understand the Epistles of Paul which deal with the position of women in the assemblies. The old women can teach the young women. The women can exhort one another), of course!
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
They can testify as the Samaritan woman did:
"Come; see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?"
John 4:29
They can pray or prophesy (1 Corinthians 11:4-5).
However, they do not have the right to be put behind the pulpit to teach the Word of God, in the Assemblies of the Saints, in the presence of the men and the women. I think that the Bible is sufficiently clear.
If Peter were alive He would take part in this discussion by saying this:
"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction".
2 Peter 3:14-16
Moreover, tell me why speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
Why? Tell me why?
Paul knew that the man and the woman were equal at the beginning. But the woman lost this position after the transgression (original sin). Since this time the man was to dominate the woman. It was a consecutive punishment of the sin of the woman. Paul knew that this imposed sanction with regard of the woman was always in force in the new covenant because the law was not abolished (Matthew 5:18), but Jesus-Christ came to perfect it.
This is not a simple opinion of Paul but he took care to specify the motivation or the biblical base of what he said. He even insisted to say that it was the “Lord’s command”.
O you women, do you want to obey the command of the Lord or on the contrary, do you want obstinately to fulfil your own will? Do as you think fit, but let me tell you that the Word of God is immutable. You ought to comply. It’s not the Word of God who owes to adapt to your suitabilities.
You said that “most theologians believe that this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus.” Let me tell you therefore that this is their own belief, their own feeling, their own thought. It’s not what the Bible truly says.
The Bible says that:
« All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Please tell me, were the verses 9 and 10 of the same chapter 2 of Timothy, related to woman’s clothing also addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus? I don’t think so!
If this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus, why did Paul refer to Genesis 3:16?
You said that in the Old Testament Deborah held authority over men. Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel. Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do. The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).
A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.
Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war. The attitude of Barak was to some extent an escape of responsibility, a disengagement. Men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak: “Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)
Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:
"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)
Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!
Authority belongs to man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an extract of her canticle:
“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”
(Judges 5:7)
Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!
Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!
Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.
Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.
You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are mothers.
The Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:15
This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.
Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
1 Peter 3:1-6
The woman senior Pastor said that “Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10)”
Please, tell me can commission issued to women make them Pastors or Evangelists? No!
For example, can we assert that the Samaritan woman was a Pastor an Evangelist (John 4: 28-30)?
I don’t think so! Admittedly she was not sent by Jesus but she also made a testimony concerning Jesus-Christ.
Then you said that “… both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)”
Is it what the Bible truly says? No!
Admittedly, all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them, but only the twelve disciples (MEN ONLY) were entitled to teach on the day Pentecost:
“Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”
Acts 2:14
Please, Show me in the Bible where a woman has been called an Evangelist or a Pastor!
Please show me!!!
In the Bible, Philippe (A MAN) was the only one who has been called “EVANGELIST” expressly:
« Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the EVANGELIST, one of the Seven.”
Acts 21:8
Timothy (A MAN) as for him was exhorted to make work of an EVANGELIST:
« But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry”.
2 Timothy 4:5
Moreover, the Overseer or the Bishop of an assembly must be a MAN:
“Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the HUSBAND of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.”
1 Timothy 3:1-7
“The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, the HUSBAND of but one wife, a MAN whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless - not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
Titus 1:5-9
In Israel were there women among the descendants of Levi who became priests? No!
“Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people - that is, their brothers - even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. This MAN, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by MEN who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham”.
Hebrews 7:5-9
Let me tell you that God was against and He is still against women being overseers and holding authority over men. AMEN!
The prophets established by God in the church belong to the five ministries (Ephesians 4:11). The gift of prophecy is one of the nine gifts of the Spirit (1Corinthians 12).
In the Old Testament, are mentioned the prophetess Miriam (Exodus 15), the prophetess Deborah (Judges 4), the prophetess Hulda (2 Kings 22), the prophetess to whom Isaiah went (Isaiah 8:3) and so on.
In the New Testament we can mention the prophetess Anna (Luke 2: 36-38).
But none of those women has become an Overseer in the church. Anna was not a Teacher or an Overseer; she never left the temple though. She worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Can we insinuate that Anna was an Overseer because she never left the temple? No! Anna knew her place in the church. She interceded to support the work of God. Women, this is what you must do instead of running towards the Pulpit. Please leave the pulpit; it’s not your place!
Your duty is to pray, to intercede night and day in order to support the men of God as Priscilla and Aquila did aside Paul.
Woman’s place is behind.
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
Yes, woman’s place is behind!
All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.
All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).
The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.
No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.
Phoebe was a servant, namely a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). She was not a Pastor.
Priscilla and Aquila were fellow workers of Paul (Romans 16:3).
For example, Deborah was the felow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!
It was the same thing for Priscilla and Aquila aside Paul. Being felow workers of Paul doesn’t necessarily mean that they were leaders in the early church. No!
You said that a woman (“Junia”) was called an “Apostle” by Paul. There’s no contradiction in the Bible.
This is what the Bible truly says:
”Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.”
Romans 16:7
The Bible, The New International Version says “JUNIAS”. “JUNIAS” is a Latin name. Junias was a Man, a Christian of Rome, relative and ancient companion of captivity of Paul.
No woman was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul.
Let’s meditate the article below:
“The First Woman Apostle – So-called
By WAYNE JACKSON
October 31, 2005
Junia—The First Woman Apostle is the title of a book by Lutheran scholar Eldon Jay Epp. According to a recent edition of Christian News (10/3/05, pp. 1ff), Epp is Harness Professor of Biblical Literature emeritus and Dean of Humanities and Social Sciences emeritus at Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, OH). He is also recent Visiting Professor of New Testament at Harvard Divinity School (2002-03; 2004-05). Epp is associated with a very liberal element of the Lutheran fellowship, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, a community that promotes “women clergy.”
Epp’s book is alleged to be the “last word” regarding the controversy as to whether “Junia” (feminine, KJV), or “Junias” (masculine, ASV), as mentioned in Romans 16:7, was a female or male. And if a female, whether she was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul. But Professor Epp’s “last word,” we insist, is not, in fact, the “last word.”
In the first place, in the Greek text the name is Junian (in the accusative case - the gender of the name not being identifiable). It could either be Junia (feminine), or Junias (masculine). Lightfoot contended that the term reflects “probably a man’s name, Junias contracted from Junianus, as it is taken by Origen” (p. 96). Origen was a “Christian” writer who is dated from c. A.D. 185-253. On the other hand, Chrysostom (c. A.D. 347-407) identifies the name as that of a woman.
Even some conservative scholars, however, argue that Junia (English, Julia) is correct, and there are a couple of compelling points in this direction, though they are not decisive.
First, early church history more commonly identified the name with a woman - up to the 13th century. Second, the name Junias (masculine) does not appear in early secular inscriptional evidence. In response, however, it might be noted first that from the 13th century to the mid-20th century, this person was perceived to be a man (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV). Many scholars could be introduced advancing this idea. While “Junias” apparently does not appear in the ancient inscriptions, Junianos is a very common name. A.T. Robertson contended that Junias could be an abbreviation of Junianos (p. 172). Such would be analogous to Lucas for Lucanus, and Silas, as an abbreviation for Silvanus.
But the fact is, the case that Epp and a few others are attempting to make for feminine leadership in the church really does not turn upon whether or not Junian is masculine or feminine.
Additionally, it is by no means certain that Junias is even identified as an “apostle.” The phrase “of note among the apostles” (ASV) is rendered by Zahn as “famed, mentioned with honor in the circle of the apostles” (p. 418), giving the sense of being well - known by the apostles, rather than actually being identified as an apostle. Moule renders it, “well known to, and honored by the Apostles” (p. 248). Various other scholars argue similarly. Note the English Standard Version, “well known to the apostles.”
Then consider this. The word “apostle” is used occasionally in the Bible in a non-technical sense to denote simply a messenger. Jesus said that “one sent” (apostolos) is not greater than the sender (John 13:16). In a general sense Christ himself was an “apostle” (Hebrews 3:1), i.e., one sent from heaven. Barnabas, Silvanus, and Timothy also were designated as “apostles” (Acts 14:4,14; 1 Thessalonians 2:6), though not in the same authoritative sense as the Twelve and Paul.
Then the following point devastates Epp’s thesis. If the name is “Junia,” (a woman), and this lady was an apostle with authority equivalent to that of Paul himself, then Paul is hopelessly in conflict with his own writings.
An apostle of Christ spoke or wrote with full authority, and numerous examples from Paul’s own writings clearly illustrate this. Note, for example, in the letters to Timothy, the expression, “I charge you.” (1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:1,14). The expression signifies “to exhort with authority in matters of extraordinary importance” (Danker, p. 233).
Yet elsewhere Paul explicitly forbids a woman to “exercise authority over a man” (1 Timothy 2:12). Does the apostle commend in one place what he prohibits in another? No respectable Bible student would dare defend such a proposition.
Epp, however, in a typically modernistic fashion, dismisses this passage as non-Pauline. Allegedly, the text is the work of a later writer who thrust his views relative to the “subordination of women” into the sacred text. This idiosyncratic view was not held in antiquity by those best qualified to know the authorship of the book, and it has been exposed many times by conservative scholars (see Mounce, pp. cxviiiff).
Finally, if “Junia,” a woman, was an official “apostle,” with the prominence and authority comparable to Peter or Paul, why, pray tell, is “she” never mentioned again in the entire New Testament, or at least, if only once, in a text that is non-ambiguous, so that it clearly establishes the case that liberalism so desperately desires? This is telling indeed. And why would Paul need to go to Rome, to impart to the saints there “some spiritual gift” (Romans 1:11), when, allegedly, there already was an apostle there who could handle that chore?
Sources/Footnotes
Danker, F.W. et al. (2000), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Chicago: University of Chicago).
Lightfoot, J.B. (1957 Reprint), The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (Grand Rapids: Zondervan).
Moule, H.C.G. (1977 Reprint), Studies in Romans (Grand Rapids: Kregel).
Mounce, Willian D. (2000), Pastoral Epistles—Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson).
Robertson, A.T. (1919), A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (London: Hodder & Stoughton).
Zahn, Theodor (1909), Introduction to the New Testament (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark), Vol. 1.
Source:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1073-the-first-woman-apost...”
Let us meditate an other article:
“Men and Women in Ministry: Was Junias a Female Apostle?
In Paul’s greetings to the saints in Rome , he includes the following:
“Greet Andronicus and Junia [or Junias], my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me” (ESV; Romans 16:7).
Some translations render this, “well known among the apostles,” thus implying that both Andronicas and Junia were themselves apostles. There are several questions that must be addressed.
First, is Junias masculine or feminine? If feminine, then they are most likely husband and wife. Recent examination of extensive Greek literature outside the Bible gives little help. The word Junias turned up only twice as a woman's name and only once as a man's name. If Junias is a woman, do we have reference here to a female apostle? If so, it would be difficult to restrict women from holding senior governmental authority in the local church insofar as the office of apostle in the New Testament was the pinnacle of spiritual authority.
Second, how should we translate the passage: “well known to the apostles” or “well known among the apostles”? The latter would suggest that Andronicus and Junias were themselves apostles, well known in that unique circle of believers. The former would suggest that the apostles, such as Paul, knew these two people quite well.
The point has been made that "since Andronicus and Junias were Christians before Paul was, it may be that their longstanding ministry (reaching back before Paul's) is precisely what Paul might have in mind when he says 'of note among the apostles.' They may well have been known among the apostles before Paul was even converted" (Piper/Grudem, 80).
However, recent analysis of the grammar of this text (see M. H. Burer and D. B. Wallace, “Was Junias Really an Apostle? A Reexamination of Romans 16:7,” New Testament Studies 47 [2001]:76-91) has demonstrated that this particular construction should be rendered “well known to the apostles.” There is, therefore, no support for the idea that Junias, whether male or female, was herself/himself(?) an apostle.
Third, we must take into consideration how the word “apostle” is used in the NT. It is actually used in four senses: 1) of Jesus as The Apostle; 2) of the original twelve (with Matthias having replaced Judas Iscariot); 3) of Paul and perhaps 5 or 6 others (Silas, Barnabas, James; cf. 1 Thess. 2:6; Gal. 1:19; 1 Cor. 15:7; Acts 14:4,14); a technical use of a restricted group; and 4) a general use of many individuals who were "sent out" by a church as a delegated representative or messenger (cf. 2 Cor. 8:23; Phil. 2:25). If it can be demonstrated that Andronicus and (his wife?) Junias were "apostles", and given the nature of the grammar this is highly unlikely, it would likely be only in this fourth sense.
Thus I find no support in this passage for the suggestion that women held the apostolic office in the NT and thus exercised spiritual authority over the entire church body.
Source:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/men-and-women-in-minis...
A woman can prophesy according to Joel 2:28 and 1 Corinthians 11: 4-5 but, she is not entitled to oversee a church. No!
The woman senior Pastor said:
“1st Corinthians 14:34-35 seems to be talking about unity not the role of women in the church. If a house is divided, it will fall.
The Corinthian Culture and its laws
Well, I decided to study the Corinthian culture and its laws. It clearly states that women could not answer questions in public. The set in the temple: men sat in the front and the women were in the back. The temple did not have speakers or microphones. So this made hearing the teachings of the Bible hard for a NEW Convert (The Corinthian Women).
The men were educated not the women. Anything that a women needs to know they must ask their husband.
NEW Converts: The Corinthian Women apparently, some women felt it was their right as Christian to ask questions in public, of course the Law did not permits this. This cause division in the church/Temple! In addition, in those times women were not taught religion and other skills for survival as thoroughly as men were. Paul basically, saying that any questions you have, ask your husband at home not during worship service.
Disobedience: Corinthian Men
Why the men disobey the Word which was taught by the Priest? 1st Corinthians 14:35 “And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church."
The men in the Corinthian culture believe the less women knew; more power they had.
Let’s look at the world NOW: Iran, Iraq, Turkey and many other third World countries who see women as second class citizens. Also, other non-Christian cultures believe the same way. Women should not know anything unless the men tell them. Because of this mentality the world is going to Hell with discrimination against man kind. When we as a people do not follow God Plan then destruction occurs.
It was about control not unity.
Part II
1Timothy2: 12, this passage has been interpreted fit need when others want to exercise their power. This scripture clearly prohibited the Ephesians women, not all women from teaching. Again, having knowledge of the Word or Maturity! Paul never forbids women from teaching. He commend co-worker Priscilla, taught Apollo’s, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26), Phoebe worked in the church (Romans 16:1) Mary, Tryphena and Tryphisa were the Lord’s workers (Roman 16:6,12) as Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2). They are many other women who held important roles in the church.
Genesis 1:27; justify women called into ministry, be the Father. When you disobey the Word, you are disobeying God.
Denominational Doctrine does not equal to any men account of what a women should be doing as a Christian according to men standards. I feel that when we start judging what God has already spoken. We are walking in disobedience. »
I thank you dear sister. But I think that your analysis above is a particular interpretation of the Word of God. The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.
Let’s see what Paul said:
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?
Paul truly said:
1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”
What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.
2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”
The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.
This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.
Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!
The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)
3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”
Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)
4- “The Lord's command”
What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15
Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!
The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).
That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on. And it’s valid for the women of today.
Priscilla never taught Apollos (Acts 18:24-26).
The Bible truly says that “Priscilla and Aquila heard him; they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.”
An explanation given to a man of God could not make Priscilla and her husband Pastors. A simple member of a church can explain something to any one more adequately. I’m not a Pastor but I’m preaching on the Black preaching network. I’m explaining to women of God the way of God adequately. Am I not?
Moreover, Genesis 1:27 can never justify women called into ministry. It’s true that God created male and female. But the Woman is a weaker partner (1 Peter 3:7). Her place is behind.
When she does anything that is contrary to the word of God she is walking in disobedience:
« Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling”.
Revelation 2: 20-21
We need to be living by the word. Anyone is saying that women are not being used in the body of Christ. The scriptures are clear about the roles of women: They must be good mothers as Deborah. They can prophesy. They should pray. They ought to fast and intercede (pray) day and night as Anna did to support the Work of God.
They should also imitate those women who were helping to support Jesus-Christ and the twelve out of their own means (Luke 8:1-3).
Woman, this is your position!
“He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
John 8:47
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Revelation 3:22
May God bless you!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by N'ZI Amani Germain on
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Hi dear sisters in Christ!
Remember! Our brother Paul said:
“Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it - I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while - yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance.
For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret,
but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.
At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.”
2 CORINTHIANS 7 : 8 -11
May God bless you!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
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Hi dear sisters in Christ!
Remember! Our brother Paul said:
“Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it - I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while - yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance.
For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret,
but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done.
At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.”
2 CORINTHIANS 7 : 8 -11
May God bless you!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
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Dear sister in Christ, please, read carefully the biblical passages below. I hope you will find in them the answer of your five questions above!
1 - What is the word of God like?
“For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”
Hebrews 4:12-13
2 - Which kind of preacher I am!
- “For the appeal we make does not spring from error or impure motives, nor are we trying to trick you. On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts.”
1 Thessalonians 2:3-4
- “So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”
1 Corinthians 4:1-5
- “My eyes will be on the faithful in the land, that they may dwell with me; he whose walk is blameless will minister to me. No one who practices deceit will dwell in my house; no one who speaks falsely will stand in my presence.”
Psalm 101:6-7
- “Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
Matthew 26:39
3 - How should be my preaching?
- “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
- They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men." And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
Mark 7:7-9
- Micaiah Prophesies Against Ahab
“For three years there was no war between Aram and Israel. But in the third year Jehoshaphat king of Judah went down to see the king of Israel.The king of Israel had said to his officials, "Don't you know that Ramoth Gilead belongs to us and yet we are doing nothing to retake it from the king of Aram?"
So he asked Jehoshaphat, "Will you go with me to fight against Ramoth Gilead?"
Jehoshaphat replied to the king of Israel, "I am as you are, my people as your people, my horses as your horses." But Jehoshaphat also said to the king of Israel, "First seek the counsel of the LORD."
So the king of Israel brought together the prophets - about four hundred men - and asked them, "Shall I go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?"
"Go," they answered, "for the Lord will give it into the king's hand."
But Jehoshaphat asked, "Is there not a prophet of the LORD here whom we can inquire of?"
The king of Israel answered Jehoshaphat, "There is still one man through whom we can inquire of the LORD, but I hate him because he never prophesies anything good about me, but always bad. He is Micaiah son of Imlah."
"The king should not say that," Jehoshaphat replied.
So the king of Israel called one of his officials and said, "Bring Micaiah son of Imlah at once."
Dressed in their royal robes, the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah were sitting on their thrones at the threshing floor by the entrance of the gate of Samaria, with all the prophets prophesying before them. Now Zedekiah son of Kenaanah had made iron horns and he declared, "This is what the LORD says: 'With these you will gore the Arameans until they are destroyed.' "
All the other prophets were prophesying the same thing. "Attack Ramoth Gilead and be victorious," they said, "for the LORD will give it into the king's hand."
The messenger who had gone to summon Micaiah said to him, "Look, as one man the other prophets are predicting success for the king. Let your word agree with theirs, and speak favorably."
But Micaiah said, "As surely as the LORD lives, I can tell him only what the LORD tells me."
When he arrived, the king asked him, "Micaiah, shall we go to war against Ramoth Gilead, or shall I refrain?"
"Attack and be victorious," he answered, "for the LORD will give it into the king's hand."
The king said to him, "How many times must I make you swear to tell me nothing but the truth in the name of the LORD ?"
Then Micaiah answered, "I saw all Israel scattered on the hills like sheep without a shepherd, and the LORD said, 'These people have no master. Let each one go home in peace.' "
The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, "Didn't I tell you that he never prophesies anything good about me, but only bad?"
Micaiah continued, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD : I saw the LORD sitting on his throne with all the host of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that. Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
" 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
"So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. "Which way did the spirit from the LORD go when he went from me to speak to you?" he asked.
Micaiah replied, "You will find out on the day you go to hide in an inner room."
The king of Israel then ordered, "Take Micaiah and send him back to Amon the ruler of the city and to Joash the king's son and say, 'This is what the king says: Put this fellow in prison and give him nothing but bread and water until I return safely.' "
Micaiah declared, "If you ever return safely, the LORD has not spoken through me." Then he added, "Mark my words, all you people!"
1 Kings 22:1-28
PLEASE, RECOGNIZE YOUR DAY AND ITS MESSAGE!!!!!
"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
Malachi 4:5-6
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
www.myspace.com/wawesan
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
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Hi brothers and sisters in Christ!
Remember, Brother Paul said:
"And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard
from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at
work in you who believe."
1 Thessalonians 2:13
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
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Permalink Reply by Adrian Lamar West Sr. on
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AMEN!!!!!!!!!!
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AMEN!
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AMEN!
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Hi brothers and sisters in Christ!
“Can a woman preacher still keep her femininity?”
The answer is NO! I say NO!
A woman preacher no longer keeps her femininity!
A woman who holds authority over Men by preaching and overseeing a congregation is no longer a Woman, but she has become a “Man”.
It’s not decent for a Woman to become a “Man” according to the Holy Scriptures.
This is the reason why I do invite ALL the Women to recognize their true position in the body of Christ.
The place of the Women is behind.
Please, leave the pulpits to Men!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
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AMEN!
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Dear sister Dawn Davidson,
You say that your ministry is specifically regarding the garden word. So, you ask me to refer to Stephen Gola’s teaching.
Well, lest us analyze Stephen Gola’s teaching first, then we will tackle your false doctrine, the so called “garden word”.
Indeed, Stephen Gola said:
“…Before we go any further, certain truths must be established:
First, the church is not a building, but God's people as individuals, two or more meeting together creating "church." It's an assembly of believers, collectively the Temple of God (see Colossians 1:24 and 2 Corinthians 6:16).
Secondly, that "there is neither male nor female (in the church): for you are all one (type of being born of God) in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).
The ironic thing is that the Apostle Paul, who wrote these truths stated above, seems to contradict 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 just a few sentences later. Here is the reason for the contradiction: Those statements (Scriptures) in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 never ORIGINATED with Paul. Paul only REITERATED them as a rebuke to the Corinthian church in the letter we now read as Scripture. The Corinthians originally wrote them TO Paul. Paul told them how absurd it was for them to say that the Law commands women to be silent in the church - THEY ARE THE CHURCH. Paul said that they WERE NOT commands from the Lord but "ignorance" of what they were teaching God's people. (We will explore this in a moment)… Are you getting the picture that it really doesn't matter if you are a male or female to operate in the things of God? Do you recall that I pointed out earlier that Paul was responding to the things that the Corinthian church wrote to him? Paul actually used their words in his letter when he addressed some of their concerns and said they were foolish and they weren't of God. We have come to the place of turning the classic bondage Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 into a liberating Scripture for you.
While Paul wrote his response (1 Corinthians) BACK to the Corinthian church, he previously read their letter that they sent to him - 1 Corinthians 7:1, "Now concerning things whereof YOU WROTE UNTO ME...." In fact, he wrote down parts of their letter back to them and rebuked them for their foolish teachings.
Paul established through his entire letter and particularly in chapters 11 thru 14 that there is no difference between a male and female being appointed and/or receiving the gifts, callings and offices of Christ. Before he wrote down their "foolish scripture" that they wrote to him, he wrote this preface: "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints" (1 Corinthians 14:33). Then in verses 34-35 he repeated what they first wrote to him: "Let your women keep silent in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the Law. And if they will learn any thing let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church). Are you getting the picture that it really doesn't matter if you are a male or female to operate in the things of God? Do you recall that I pointed out earlier that Paul was responding to the things that the Corinthian church wrote to him? Paul actually used their words in his letter when he addressed some of their concerns and said they were foolish and they weren't of God. We have come to the place of turning the classic bondage Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 into a liberating Scripture for you.
While Paul wrote his response (1 Corinthians) BACK to the Corinthian church, he previously read their letter that they sent to him - 1 Corinthians 7:1, "Now concerning things whereof YOU WROTE UNTO ME...." In fact, he wrote down parts of their letter back to them and rebuked them for their foolish teachings.
Paul established through his entire letter and particularly in chapters 11 thru 14 that there is no difference between a male and female being appointed and/or receiving the gifts, callings and offices of Christ. Before he wrote down their "foolish scripture" that they wrote to him, he wrote this preface: "God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints" (1 Corinthians 14:33). Then in verses 34-35 he repeated what they first wrote to him: "Let your women keep silent in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the Law. And if they will learn any thing let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
Immediately after Paul wrote this, the next word he wrote was, "WHAT?" (v36). In the Greek, the word "what" is a negative disclaimer. We would say, "What, are you nuts?" Paul said, "What? Came the word of God out from you? Or did it come unto you only?" (v36). Meaning, that the previous statement that he wrote from the letter he received from them referring that women are to keep silent in the church was not from God at all. In fact, it was pure silliness. He just finished writing in a few paragraphs before this what we now know as 1 Corinthians 11:1-16, establishing that when women prophesy, teach or speak in the church they are to have their heads covered. "But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered…." needs to put on her head covering and then it would be acceptable (1 Corinthians 11:5).
Paul goes on to say, "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that THE THINGS THAT I WRITE UNTO YOU ARE THE COMMANDS OF THE LORD, (NOT THE THINGS THAT YOU WRITE)" (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul was saying that he was appointed to write the Scriptures and the Commands of God, not the Corinthian church.
Paul continues with: "If any man be ignorant (meaning the person who wrote this stupidity) let him be ignorant (if he does not acknowledge that what he wrote is not from the Lord") (v38).
Paul then closes the subject and firmly establishes about males and females being in ministry and speaking in the church: "Wherefore, brethren (brethren does not mean male, it means 'born out of the womb of God, born again' --- males and females), COVET TO PROPHESY AND FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES" (v39).
What I have just shared with you ought to have you shouting the praises to God. However, there is one more stronghold of bondage I must bring down before there is TOTAL liberation.
Why has it been a mandate within the church (community) in general to strictly forbid or set great limitations against and even ostracize women from being appointed to and or being accepted as called by God as an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher or to move in the gifts of God? The answer is simple: not only have they not understood the Scriptures we just went over, but even more importantly, that THE LORD ALWAYS LAYS A NEW FOUNDATION WITH SPECIFIC MALES FIRST… "
source: http://www.gracecentered.com/women_in_ministry.htm
Dear sister Dawn, unfortunately Stephen Gola’s analysis above is a particular interpretation of the Word of God. The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.
Let’s see what Paul truly said:
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Was Brother Paul in verses 34-35 repeating what Corinthians first wrote to him?
Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?
Paul truly said:
1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”
What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.
This is a reply to a question and not a reiteration of a question.
But , why did the false teacher Stephen Gola skippe the phrase « in all the congregations of the saints » ? I wonder !
2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”
The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.
This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.
Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!
This is a reply to a question and not a reiteration of a question.
The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)
3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”
Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)
This is a reply to a question and not a reiteration of a question.
4- “The Lord's command”
What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15
This is a reply to a question and not a reiteration of a question.
Women, do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men . Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!
The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).
Now, I would like to ask a small question to the false teacher Stephen Gola :
When Brother Paul said : « Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection (1 Timothy 2:11), was he repeating what Timothy first wrote to him ?
Indeed, Stephen Gola said: “In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says, "I do not allow a woman (wife) to teach...Nor to usurp authority over the man (husband)." There are two very important things to take notice of in that Scripture.
First, it is Paul's desire and NOT a command of the Lord. Paul always says when it is of him and not the Lord. This is how the Lord was able to trust him in writing the Scriptures---He differentiated between his will and the Lord's will.
Secondly, to usurp authority one must go against the will of another. When the husband recognizes the anointing on his wife to teach, all he has to do is allow her to do so. Then, there is no authority usurped, it is granted.
Any Christian woman, married or unmarried can teach or take part in ministry…”
Dear sister Dawn, let us unmask the false teacher Stephen Gola :
He said :
« Paul goes on to say, "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that THE THINGS THAT I WRITE UNTO YOU ARE THE COMMANDS OF THE LORD, (NOT THE THINGS THAT YOU WRITE)" (1 Corinthians 14:37). Paul was saying that he was appointed to write the Scriptures and the Commands of God, not the Corinthian church”.
But, surprising as it may seem he asserted this:
“In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says, "I do not allow a woman (wife) to teach...Nor to usurp authority over the man (husband)." There are two very important things to take notice of in that Scripture.
First, it is Paul's desire and NOT a command of the Lord. Paul always says when it is of him and not the Lord. This is how the Lord was able to trust him in writing the Scriptures---He differentiated between his will and the Lord's will”.
REMARKS:
- One person: Paul;
- The same topic: the attitude of the women in the congregations
- In one hand, in 1 Corinthians 14:37 Paul was saying that he was appointed to write the Scriptures and the Commands of God, not the Corinthian church”.
- And in other hand, in “In 1 Timothy 2:12, Paul says, "I do not allow a woman (wife) to teach...Nor to usurp authority over the man (husband)." There are two very important things to take notice of in that Scripture.
First, it is Paul's desire and NOT a command of the Lord. Paul always says when it is of him and not the Lord. This is how the Lord was able to trust him in writing the Scriptures---He differentiated between his will and the Lord's will”.
Dear sister Dawn, it’s easy to unmask your false teacher. It’s a small exercise, isn’t it?
Indeed, Brother Paul said:
"To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
"To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
1 Corinthians 7:10-14
REMARKS:
- To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord)
-To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord)
Here, Brother Paul was dealing with one topic: the marriage.
But, we notice that the matters to which his desire and that of the Lord apply are different:
- the married (not I, but the Lord)
-the rest (not I, but the Lord)
However, 1Corinthians 14: 34-38 and 1Timothy 2: 11-15 deal with the same topic: the attitude of the women in the congregations.
In 1Corinthians 14: 37, Brother Paul said that it’s the Lord’s command.
He was replying to a question. He was not repeating a question.
In 1Timothy 2: 11-15, speaking of the same topic Brother Paul referred to the Lord’s command, namely Genesis 3:16.
Paul can not change his teaching about the same topic. The Bible is clear!
Also, let me tell you that whatever is written in the Bible is the inspired word of God, may it be the Lord’s command or Brother Paul’s desire or opinion, otherwise the Bible would no longer be our absolute, our compass.
“For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit”.
2 Peter 1:21
Indeed, Brother Paul said :
« But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God ».
1 Corinthians 7: 40
Brother Paul had the Spirit of God. His opinions written in the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. We must follow them as well.
“Thou hast set at nought all them that wander from thy statutes; for their deceit is falsehood… »
Psalm 119:118
" And Jesus answering said to them, Ye err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God...
Dear sister Dawn, I have just sent three E-mails to Stephen Gola and I'm waiting for his insightful answers!
If you know him personaly, please ask him to contact me sothat I can coach him. This man needs to be taught.
Since, I have finished with the false teacher Stephen Gola I will tackle your false doctrine, the so called “garden word”.
Yes, we ought to pay a visit to the Garden. We will scrutinize the book of Genesis to see which doctrine you still preach on the Black Preaching Network.
I must take time to read your messages in order to provide a relevant reply.
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
http://www.tagworld.com/srobouay
http://www.myspace.com/wawesan
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AMEN!
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