WOMEN OF GOD, ARE YOU REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE KEY ROLE THAT YOU OUGHT TO PLAY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?
Do we have to interpret the word of God or to believe simply what is written even if we do not understand it yet?
Doesn’t the interpretation of the Word of God come from the devil?
Didn’t he pervert the word of God formerly to induce in error Adam and Eve?
Doesn’t he still do it today?
WOMEN OF GOD, ARE YOU REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE KEY ROLE THAT YOU OUGHT TO PLAY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?
I am not a misogynist. I do have a mother and many sisters and I love women as I love my own relatives. I am not against the women but I would like that we probe the Holy Scriptures to see what must be the real position of the woman in the body of Christ. With this intention, we will analyze the point of view of a woman who is a senior Pastor.
First, let us know that the Bible recommends us not to go beyond what is written:
-“Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”
Proverbs 30:6
- “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain ».
1 Corinthians 15: 1-2
- “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ”.
Colossians 2:8
- Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
1 Corinthians 4:6
- “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation”,
1 Peter 2: 1-2
-“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
- “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Revelation 22:18-19
And so on…
We all are unanimous that the Word of God should not be object of a particular interpretation (2 Peter 1: 20-21, 2 Peter 3: 14-16).
We also agree that unity in the body of Christ is possible only around the truth:
“If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth”.
1 Timothy 3:15
“I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.”
1 John 2:21
“What does the Bible teach about the role of the women of Body of Messiah? Is it scriptural for a woman to teach, preach the word in the assembly? Is it scriptural for a woman to be in the "Office of" Apostle, Pastor, Bishop or Minister?”
A BIBLICAL QUESTION MUST HAVE A BIBLICAL ANSWER.
Let us analyze what a woman pastor thinks and gradually compare her remarks to that the Bible teaches:
(Refer to: https://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=916966%3ATopic%3A...).
The woman Pastor said:
“The black church as we know it is the only institution in the black community that is still the last one to do away with segregation and seperation, in the Black church we do not let our women in the pulpit i must be honest a women can preach to me she can't pastor me. I have not been converted on that issue yet.”
I thank you dear sister! As you see, she has not been converted on that issue yet. Thus, this issue should not be a taboo. We must discuss it frankly in the light of the Holy Scriptures.
In addition, the woman senior Pastor, after having quoted 1 Corinthians 11: 3-16, gave her interpretation of it:
“Scripture Interpretation:
1 tn Or “the husband is the head of his wife.” The same Greek words translated “man” and “woman” can mean, as determined by context, “husband” and “wife” respectively. Such an approach is followed by NAB, TEV, NRSV, and NLT (with some variations).
2 sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.). The Greek word he uses here (ἐξουσία exousia; translated symbol of authority) could be (1) a figure of speech that may substitute the result (the right to participate in worship) for the appropriate appearance that makes it possible (the covered head). Or (2) it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church).
3 sn Paul does not explain this reference to the angels, and its point is not entirely clear. It seems to reflect an awareness that angels are witnesses to church life (cf. Eph 3:10) and would be particularly sensitive to resistance against God’s created order.
4 sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.
5 sn No word for veil or head covering occurs in vv. 3-14 (see the note on authority in v. 10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in v. 15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. v. 10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. vv. 5, 6, 7, 10, 13). If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)? This suggests that the covering is not the sam »
I thank you dear sister! The woman Pastor supports the idea according to which” sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.).”
With all the respect that I owe her I would like to tell her that this assertion is false.
Let’s see what the bible declares:
“Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering » (1 Corinthians 11: 13-15)
The word used by Paul specifying the type of covering is meant is “hair”, the “long hair” of the woman. We need not make Greek or Latin studies to understand that. Let us take simply what the Bible says. God is always revealed in simplicity (Matthew 11:25):
“The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.”
Psalm 119:130
Do not see figure of speech (metaphors) everywhere. The phrase “Long Hair” means “Long Hair”.
Here’s the interpretation given by the woman Pastor to define the hair of the woman:
“…it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church)”.
This is a false interpretation of the Word of God. Let us see one of the passages of the Scriptures which deal with the inward attitude which a woman is to possess:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.”
1 Peter 3: 1-7
To define clearly what interior attitude a woman must have, did Paul need to use a metaphor here (in 1 Peter 3: 1-7)? No! Please do not add your point of view to the Word of God. The long hair of a woman is not the symbol of her inward attitude:
“Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight” (V. 3-4).
Since a man who requests or prophesies should not cover his head, can the woman Pastor tell me what is the outward symbol of the inward attitude of the man? Shouldn’t the man who requests or prophesies adopt the similar inward attitude like that of the woman?
“For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head” (V.10).
Truly speaking, it’s a physical sign and not an interior attitude.
It is neither a hat, nor a scarf or a piece of fabric but Paul refers to natural and long hair of the woman created by God Himself. As much God does not live in temples built by hands (Acts 17:24), under no circumstances would He take pleasure in a piece of fabric. He rather likes the natural hair of the woman.
Consequently, a woman should not cut off her hair. It is prohibited by God. Amen!
The woman Pastor said:
“sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.”
I thank you dear sister! Let’s see what Paul said: ” Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.”
The nature of things here means the natural world. There’s no metaphor here. No! Let us see what the same Paul said in his epistle to Romans about the nature of things:
“For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
Romans 1:20
God is revealed to humanity through the nature, I mean the natural world, then through His Son Jesus-Christ and through His Word, the Bible. To understand God, it is necessary to understand the laws which govern the natural things which are the works of His hands. Thus, according to this nature of the things a man should not behave like a woman. A woman also should not behave like a man. This is a disorder, even an abomination (as regards sexual relationship for example):
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Romans 1:26-27
In the same way, the nature teaches us that man should not have long hair but on the contrary the woman must have long hair because the hair was given to her by the Creator as her veil. This is simple to understand. There’s no figure of speech here. No! Leave the passages of the Scriptures in their contexts. Do not try to adapt them to the particular doctrines of your denominations. The Word of God is for God and God is his own interpreter.
The woman Pastor asked a question:
“If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)?
I thank you dear sister! A biblical verse is a whole. Do not take a part a verse to explain all the verse. Thus, I would like to ask you a question too. The answer of my question will be the answer of yours:
According to you, what does the other part of the verse 6 below, which you quoted mean?
The same verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 11 says: “If it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head”. What does it mean?
I’m waiting for your answer!
The woman senior pastor said:
“Let's Understanding “Headship”
By now you are, no doubt, asking the question, “But isn’t the husband the head of the wife?”
The answer to that question hinges on the translation of the Greek word kephale translated “head” in Ephesians 5:23 and 1 Corinthians 11:3, and whether it means “authority over” or “source of life.”
In the New Testament the word “head” (kephale) is used the same way as the word “head” (ro’sh) is in the Old Testament. It stands for “chief” in speaking of Christ as “head of the corner.” Matthew 21:42, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Peter 2:7 are all referring to Psalm 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.” To understand that verse one must understand the significance of the “chief cornerstone” of a building when the Psalmist penned those words.
In ancient times a huge stone was used as the headstone or cornerstone to give support to the entire building. The walls of the building were built in such a way that they wrapped around that chief cornerstone, giving the building the support that it needed. Christ is just that kind of support to the Church, binding its members together.
Ephesians 4:15, 16 says, But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects unto Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.
Colossians 1:16-18 reminds us,
For in Him all things were created (He gave life), both in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
There is that chief cornerstone, again, holding things together. Then those verses go on to say that even as He is the One who holds everything else together, “He is also head of the body, the Church.” In other words, He gives life to the Church and holds it together. This whole passage is not talking about “authority” but “source of life.”
Colossians 2:18, 19 tells us to
Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head from whom the entire body being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments grow with a growth which is from God.
Ephesians 1:20-23 speaking of Jesus, tells us that God . . . seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.
But the Church is not there under His feet in this Headship of government, but, rather, is at His side. As Ephesians 2:6 says we are “seated with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.” Further more, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus didn’t say, “This is My throne; keep away.” He said, “He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
All through these passages, Jesus is using the head/body metaphor and is speaking of the “head” as that which gives life to the body. None of these passages refer to Christ’s government. They represent Him as the supporter, nourisher, and builder of the body, not Her ruler. It is in this same way that man is the “head” of the wife.
Recent scholarship has increasingly concluded, after continued study of ancient biblical, secular, and medical writings, that kephale means “source of life” rather than “authority over.”
There are about 180 times in the Old Testament when the Hebrew word ro’sh clearly did mean “ruler,” “commander,” or “leader,” but the Septuagint translators rarely used kephale in translating these portions. They used other Greek words that more accurately defined “chief” when meaning a person of authority.
Kephale would have been the natural word to use in all the 180 instances if the word had been commonly understood to mean “leader or chief.” Its rare usage indicates that translators knew that kephale did not carry this meaning.10
Furthermore, examination of the seven passages where Paul used kephale in reference to Christ indicates that, when they are read with common Greek meanings of kephale, we see a more exalted Christ than when we read “head” primarily with the meaning of “authority over”.
11 Colossians 2:19 points to Christ as the source of life. Ephesians 4:15, 16 emphasize the unity of head and body and present Christ as the nourisher and source of growth.
Just as Christ personally brings His Church to perfection (Ephesians 4:11-13) by means of the five-fold ministry (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher) “for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ,” so the husband’s desire should be to build up his wife until she becomes all God intended her to be.
Whom Should We Obey?
Aren’t we supposed to obey Christ? Yes, absolutely, because He is God! He is KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS! But that is not what these verses are talking about. These verses aren’t dealing with His Lordship as One Who should be obeyed, but with the headship of Jesus, the One Who is the “Source of Life” for His Body.
The Greek word that clearly means authority is exousia, not kephale. Christ’s authority over the Church and over the world is established in other passages of Scripture which use this Greek word exousia.
Some examples are:
“But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – then He said to the paralytic, “Rise, take up your bed, and go home” (Matthew 9:6). And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth “ (Matthew 28:18).
For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man (John 5:26, 27).
In all three of these passages, the Greek word used is exousia, a word that does carry a clear meaning of authority.
However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
Jesus, in Matthew 20:25-28, made it very clear how fellow-disciples were to relate to one another. He said the Gentiles exercised authority over one another, but that it was not to be so among His followers. Rather, “whoever would be first let him be your servant.” This is the key to every relationship.
Philippians 2:3-8 admonishes, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus is the perfect example of One Who came to serve mankind, unworthy as we are. The problem with humanity, and even the Body of Christ today, is that there is more interest in having authority over people — that is, being “in charge” — than a desire to live in a position of humility and servanthood.
Each of us, as Christians in general and husbands and wives in particular, so desperately need to follow Jesus’ example and embrace the brokenness of servanthood rather than revel in the selfishness of being served.
Men lets understand gender bias. First we must truly understand the word of God and break traditions that make women second class citizens because of what you have heard and mis interpreted scriptures which support superiority over gender.
Does Male Headship Indicate Authority?
The Old Testament are husbands "placed in the position of `masters,' `owners,' and `lords' over their wives." In the New Testament, in contrast, the Greek word for "head" may mean either "master" or "source," and - although she does not explicitly say this, we must assume it for her argument to be complete - when used to denote the husband's relation to the wife, it means "source." First, neither Testament teaches that husbands ought to be owners of their wives. The New Testament, however, cites approvingly the fact that "Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord" as exemplary for Christian wives (1 Peter 3:6), whom it exhorts, "be submissive to your own husbands. . . . For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves [with "chaste and respectful behavior"], being submissive to their own husbands" (1 Peter 3:1, 5). “
I thank you dear sister for your biblical demonstration!
However, I’d like to tell you that the problem lies in the fact that God has established a hierarchisation of the things. But you are opposed to that and you want to dispute thus with God.
The bible declares that “…the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1Corinthians 11:3). Moreover: “…the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man (V.7-9).
You do not want to admit that the man is the chief of the woman but you recognize that he’s the matrimonial head of the woman. Speaking about man, you admit that his authority towards the woman means that God has given him the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
You said:” However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.”
I thank you dear sister! But isn't there a contradiction in your remarks? Do you think that the responsibility conferred to man by God is without authority? But why wasn’t this responsibility which consists on infusing life in somebody also entrusted to the woman? Why isn’t the woman a matrimonial head? Why? Read your Bible again. Don’t you know that this responsibility underlies authority? If the responsibility given to man by God to exert a ministry implies the authority of man, doesn’t the responsibility conferred to him by God imply also the authority of the man? ( 2 Corinthians 13:9-10, Ephesians 4: 11-12).
Brother Paul said:
“We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority-the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.”
2 Corinthians 13:9-10
Don’t you know that the authority that Christ exerts towards His church is comparable to that which must exert the man towards the woman?
Man has an authority which was conferred to him by God. But this authority does not consist in crushing the woman, but on the contrary in building her up. Amen!
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” AMEN!!!
Ephesians 5:22-24
Once again, let me tell you that there isn’t a metaphor here. Compared to man woman is a weaker partner?
“Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers”.
1 Peter 3:7
There’s no debate to be made in connection with the Authority of the man towards the woman since “…neither was man created for woman, but woman for man”
Man headship indicates Authority. Of course! Husbands ought to be owners of their wives according to the Bible (1 Peter 3: 6).
The woman senior Pastor said:
“In the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no longer exists, for as Galatians 3:28 states: `There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' (NIV). One does not represent the other."
To argue that this verse eliminates all legitimate differences in roles between men and women?
Including the fact that a woman is a proper spouse for a man but not for a woman and a man for a woman but not for a man?
If not, then we must learn what differences it does and does not eliminate from the immediate and larger context. It will not do simply to assert that this verse eliminates differences in authority and submission.
The context of Galatians 3:28 concerns salvation, with union with Christ. This, Paul concludes, comes about in the same way for every one - Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female - namely, by faith (Galatians 3:23-27). Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
I thank you dear sister! I’d like to tell you that in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women still exists: Indeed, Jesus-Christ said this:
“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:18-19
Why, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
If in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no more exists, tell me why Paul, a preacher of the new covenant, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies did refer to Genesis 3:16?
You are right when you say that” … one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33…”
These differences in roles are valid as well in the family as in the Church of Christ. The woman must adopt this same submissive attitude in her family as in the Assembly of the Saints. Because the Church starts in our houses (Titus 1:6-8; Titus 2:3-5).
However, what do you want to insinuate by the phrase: “Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
“… Without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28”?
Do you think that there’s a difference between Ephesians 5:22-33 and Galatians 3:28?
Isn't there a contradiction in your assertion? I believe that you have not understood Galatians 3:28 yet. As for the Holy Bible, it contains no contradiction! You need a revelation to understand the word of God!
What does Galatians 3: 28 say? It states that “WE ARE ALL ONE IN JESUS-CHRIST (Acts 15:8-9; Romans 3:21-31; 10: 12-13)
« There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3:28
Consequently: “So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”
2 Corinthians 5:16
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Romans 10:12-13
The unicity in the body of Christ does not mean the suppression of the question of gender bias. It does not mean that the man and the woman have from now on the same roles or the same attributions in Christ.
The body of Christ is made up of several members. Each member however has a determined role to carry out:
“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.”
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
The woman has a great role to play in the body of Christ. However, as we will further see she should not become a Pastor, an overseer of a church. No!!!! It’s the exclusive role of men called by God Himself. Amen!!!
If being a Pastor represents being a hand, then a woman who is a foot should not say:” Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:15)
If being a Pastor represents being an eye, then a woman who is an ear should not say:” Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:16)
O you women, recognize your position please!
If you usurp the place of the men, then you are comparable to members of the body of Christ which are opposed to the order established by God Himself.
In the same way, in Christ, the husband and the wife are called to live harmoniously, but the problems occur in the family when the latter refuses to recognize her place and breaks that order. Then instability takes place. I insist to say that the need of Harmony in the family doesn’t imply that the woman and the man should have the same position or authority. Their relation is guided by the complementarity. Woman is a helpmate for man. But man is the chief of woman. Here is the true harmony.
This is similar in the Church of the Lord. Woman should not dominate Man. There’s no difference between the home and the church:
” Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery -but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”
Ephesians 5:22-33
The woman Pastor said:
“There is a difference between your home and the church. Remember, God is the head of the church not man. Man is the head of the home.
This is often what we do with 1 Tim. 2:12, "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man" (NASB).
We make in biblical interpretation occurs when we take one isolated verse and build a doctrine around it - even if the verse seems to contradict other passages.
Most theologians believe that this passage was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus. They came to this conclusion after studying the myriad of references in the Bible to women in spiritual authority. The Old Testament records that Deborah was a judge over Israel, and God blessed her leadership in battle (see Judges 4-5). Other women who held authority over men include Miriam, Huldah and Noadiah.²
Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10), and both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Priscilla, Chloe and Phoebe were leaders in the early church, and one woman, Junia, is called an apostle by Paul (Rom. 16:7).
The promise of the prophet Joel was that "sons and daughters" would prophesy after the Holy Spirit was given to the church (Joel 2:28, emphasis added). Yet we have taken one misunderstood verse from Paul's writings and used it to negate hundreds of other passages that support the full release of women into ministry”.
I thank you dear sister. Please read Ephesians 5:22-33 carefully, and you’ll realize that there’s no difference between the home and the church.
Why has Paul prohibited women to teach, but asked them to remain silent in the churches?
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Simply because God is God of order. The preaching of the woman in the church is a disorder. Preaching in the church is not the role assigned by God to the woman.
You need a revelation to understand the Epistles of Paul which deal with the position of women in the assemblies. The old women can teach the young women. The women can exhort one another), of course!
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
They can testify as the Samaritan woman did:
"Come; see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?"
John 4:29
They can pray or prophesy (1 Corinthians 11:4-5).
However, they do not have the right to be put behind the pulpit to teach the Word of God, in the Assemblies of the Saints, in the presence of the men and the women. I think that the Bible is sufficiently clear.
If Peter were alive He would take part in this discussion by saying this:
"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction".
2 Peter 3:14-16
Moreover, tell me why speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
Why? Tell me why?
Paul knew that the man and the woman were equal at the beginning. But the woman lost this position after the transgression (original sin). Since this time the man was to dominate the woman. It was a consecutive punishment of the sin of the woman. Paul knew that this imposed sanction with regard of the woman was always in force in the new covenant because the law was not abolished (Matthew 5:18), but Jesus-Christ came to perfect it.
This is not a simple opinion of Paul but he took care to specify the motivation or the biblical base of what he said. He even insisted to say that it was the “Lord’s command”.
O you women, do you want to obey the command of the Lord or on the contrary, do you want obstinately to fulfil your own will? Do as you think fit, but let me tell you that the Word of God is immutable. You ought to comply. It’s not the Word of God who owes to adapt to your suitabilities.
You said that “most theologians believe that this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus.” Let me tell you therefore that this is their own belief, their own feeling, their own thought. It’s not what the Bible truly says.
The Bible says that:
« All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Please tell me, were the verses 9 and 10 of the same chapter 2 of Timothy, related to woman’s clothing also addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus? I don’t think so!
If this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus, why did Paul refer to Genesis 3:16?
You said that in the Old Testament Deborah held authority over men. Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel. Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do. The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).
A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.
Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war. The attitude of Barak was to some extent an escape of responsibility, a disengagement. Men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak: “Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)
Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:
"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)
Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!
Authority belongs to man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an extract of her canticle:
“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”
(Judges 5:7)
Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!
Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!
Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.
Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.
You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are mothers.
The Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:15
This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.
Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
1 Peter 3:1-6
The woman senior Pastor said that “Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10)”
Please, tell me can commission issued to women make them Pastors or Evangelists? No!
For example, can we assert that the Samaritan woman was a Pastor an Evangelist (John 4: 28-30)?
I don’t think so! Admittedly she was not sent by Jesus but she also made a testimony concerning Jesus-Christ.
Then you said that “… both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)”
Is it what the Bible truly says? No!
Admittedly, all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them, but only the twelve disciples (MEN ONLY) were entitled to teach on the day Pentecost:
“Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”
Acts 2:14
Please, Show me in the Bible where a woman has been called an Evangelist or a Pastor!
Please show me!!!
In the Bible, Philippe (A MAN) was the only one who has been called “EVANGELIST” expressly:
« Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the EVANGELIST, one of the Seven.”
Acts 21:8
Timothy (A MAN) as for him was exhorted to make work of an EVANGELIST:
« But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry”.
2 Timothy 4:5
Moreover, the Overseer or the Bishop of an assembly must be a MAN:
“Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the HUSBAND of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.”
1 Timothy 3:1-7
“The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, the HUSBAND of but one wife, a MAN whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless - not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
Titus 1:5-9
In Israel were there women among the descendants of Levi who became priests? No!
“Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people - that is, their brothers - even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. This MAN, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by MEN who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham”.
Hebrews 7:5-9
Let me tell you that God was against and He is still against women being overseers and holding authority over men. AMEN!
The prophets established by God in the church belong to the five ministries (Ephesians 4:11). The gift of prophecy is one of the nine gifts of the Spirit (1Corinthians 12).
In the Old Testament, are mentioned the prophetess Miriam (Exodus 15), the prophetess Deborah (Judges 4), the prophetess Hulda (2 Kings 22), the prophetess to whom Isaiah went (Isaiah 8:3) and so on.
In the New Testament we can mention the prophetess Anna (Luke 2: 36-38).
But none of those women has become an Overseer in the church. Anna was not a Teacher or an Overseer; she never left the temple though. She worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Can we insinuate that Anna was an Overseer because she never left the temple? No! Anna knew her place in the church. She interceded to support the work of God. Women, this is what you must do instead of running towards the Pulpit. Please leave the pulpit; it’s not your place!
Your duty is to pray, to intercede night and day in order to support the men of God as Priscilla and Aquila did aside Paul.
Woman’s place is behind.
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
Yes, woman’s place is behind!
All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.
All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).
The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.
No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.
Phoebe was a servant, namely a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). She was not a Pastor.
Priscilla and Aquila were fellow workers of Paul (Romans 16:3).
For example, Deborah was the felow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!
It was the same thing for Priscilla and Aquila aside Paul. Being felow workers of Paul doesn’t necessarily mean that they were leaders in the early church. No!
You said that a woman (“Junia”) was called an “Apostle” by Paul. There’s no contradiction in the Bible.
This is what the Bible truly says:
”Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.”
Romans 16:7
The Bible, The New International Version says “JUNIAS”. “JUNIAS” is a Latin name. Junias was a Man, a Christian of Rome, relative and ancient companion of captivity of Paul.
No woman was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul.
Let’s meditate the article below:
“The First Woman Apostle – So-called
By WAYNE JACKSON
October 31, 2005
Junia—The First Woman Apostle is the title of a book by Lutheran scholar Eldon Jay Epp. According to a recent edition of Christian News (10/3/05, pp. 1ff), Epp is Harness Professor of Biblical Literature emeritus and Dean of Humanities and Social Sciences emeritus at Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, OH). He is also recent Visiting Professor of New Testament at Harvard Divinity School (2002-03; 2004-05). Epp is associated with a very liberal element of the Lutheran fellowship, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, a community that promotes “women clergy.”
Epp’s book is alleged to be the “last word” regarding the controversy as to whether “Junia” (feminine, KJV), or “Junias” (masculine, ASV), as mentioned in Romans 16:7, was a female or male. And if a female, whether she was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul. But Professor Epp’s “last word,” we insist, is not, in fact, the “last word.”
In the first place, in the Greek text the name is Junian (in the accusative case - the gender of the name not being identifiable). It could either be Junia (feminine), or Junias (masculine). Lightfoot contended that the term reflects “probably a man’s name, Junias contracted from Junianus, as it is taken by Origen” (p. 96). Origen was a “Christian” writer who is dated from c. A.D. 185-253. On the other hand, Chrysostom (c. A.D. 347-407) identifies the name as that of a woman.
Even some conservative scholars, however, argue that Junia (English, Julia) is correct, and there are a couple of compelling points in this direction, though they are not decisive.
First, early church history more commonly identified the name with a woman - up to the 13th century. Second, the name Junias (masculine) does not appear in early secular inscriptional evidence. In response, however, it might be noted first that from the 13th century to the mid-20th century, this person was perceived to be a man (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV). Many scholars could be introduced advancing this idea. While “Junias” apparently does not appear in the ancient inscriptions, Junianos is a very common name. A.T. Robertson contended that Junias could be an abbreviation of Junianos (p. 172). Such would be analogous to Lucas for Lucanus, and Silas, as an abbreviation for Silvanus.
But the fact is, the case that Epp and a few others are attempting to make for feminine leadership in the church really does not turn upon whether or not Junian is masculine or feminine.
Additionally, it is by no means certain that Junias is even identified as an “apostle.” The phrase “of note among the apostles” (ASV) is rendered by Zahn as “famed, mentioned with honor in the circle of the apostles” (p. 418), giving the sense of being well - known by the apostles, rather than actually being identified as an apostle. Moule renders it, “well known to, and honored by the Apostles” (p. 248). Various other scholars argue similarly. Note the English Standard Version, “well known to the apostles.”
Then consider this. The word “apostle” is used occasionally in the Bible in a non-technical sense to denote simply a messenger. Jesus said that “one sent” (apostolos) is not greater than the sender (John 13:16). In a general sense Christ himself was an “apostle” (Hebrews 3:1), i.e., one sent from heaven. Barnabas, Silvanus, and Timothy also were designated as “apostles” (Acts 14:4,14; 1 Thessalonians 2:6), though not in the same authoritative sense as the Twelve and Paul.
Then the following point devastates Epp’s thesis. If the name is “Junia,” (a woman), and this lady was an apostle with authority equivalent to that of Paul himself, then Paul is hopelessly in conflict with his own writings.
An apostle of Christ spoke or wrote with full authority, and numerous examples from Paul’s own writings clearly illustrate this. Note, for example, in the letters to Timothy, the expression, “I charge you.” (1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:1,14). The expression signifies “to exhort with authority in matters of extraordinary importance” (Danker, p. 233).
Yet elsewhere Paul explicitly forbids a woman to “exercise authority over a man” (1 Timothy 2:12). Does the apostle commend in one place what he prohibits in another? No respectable Bible student would dare defend such a proposition.
Epp, however, in a typically modernistic fashion, dismisses this passage as non-Pauline. Allegedly, the text is the work of a later writer who thrust his views relative to the “subordination of women” into the sacred text. This idiosyncratic view was not held in antiquity by those best qualified to know the authorship of the book, and it has been exposed many times by conservative scholars (see Mounce, pp. cxviiiff).
Finally, if “Junia,” a woman, was an official “apostle,” with the prominence and authority comparable to Peter or Paul, why, pray tell, is “she” never mentioned again in the entire New Testament, or at least, if only once, in a text that is non-ambiguous, so that it clearly establishes the case that liberalism so desperately desires? This is telling indeed. And why would Paul need to go to Rome, to impart to the saints there “some spiritual gift” (Romans 1:11), when, allegedly, there already was an apostle there who could handle that chore?
Sources/Footnotes
Danker, F.W. et al. (2000), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Chicago: University of Chicago).
Lightfoot, J.B. (1957 Reprint), The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (Grand Rapids: Zondervan).
Moule, H.C.G. (1977 Reprint), Studies in Romans (Grand Rapids: Kregel).
Mounce, Willian D. (2000), Pastoral Epistles—Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson).
Robertson, A.T. (1919), A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (London: Hodder & Stoughton).
Zahn, Theodor (1909), Introduction to the New Testament (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark), Vol. 1.
Source:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1073-the-first-woman-apost...”
Let us meditate an other article:
“Men and Women in Ministry: Was Junias a Female Apostle?
In Paul’s greetings to the saints in Rome , he includes the following:
“Greet Andronicus and Junia [or Junias], my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me” (ESV; Romans 16:7).
Some translations render this, “well known among the apostles,” thus implying that both Andronicas and Junia were themselves apostles. There are several questions that must be addressed.
First, is Junias masculine or feminine? If feminine, then they are most likely husband and wife. Recent examination of extensive Greek literature outside the Bible gives little help. The word Junias turned up only twice as a woman's name and only once as a man's name. If Junias is a woman, do we have reference here to a female apostle? If so, it would be difficult to restrict women from holding senior governmental authority in the local church insofar as the office of apostle in the New Testament was the pinnacle of spiritual authority.
Second, how should we translate the passage: “well known to the apostles” or “well known among the apostles”? The latter would suggest that Andronicus and Junias were themselves apostles, well known in that unique circle of believers. The former would suggest that the apostles, such as Paul, knew these two people quite well.
The point has been made that "since Andronicus and Junias were Christians before Paul was, it may be that their longstanding ministry (reaching back before Paul's) is precisely what Paul might have in mind when he says 'of note among the apostles.' They may well have been known among the apostles before Paul was even converted" (Piper/Grudem, 80).
However, recent analysis of the grammar of this text (see M. H. Burer and D. B. Wallace, “Was Junias Really an Apostle? A Reexamination of Romans 16:7,” New Testament Studies 47 [2001]:76-91) has demonstrated that this particular construction should be rendered “well known to the apostles.” There is, therefore, no support for the idea that Junias, whether male or female, was herself/himself(?) an apostle.
Third, we must take into consideration how the word “apostle” is used in the NT. It is actually used in four senses: 1) of Jesus as The Apostle; 2) of the original twelve (with Matthias having replaced Judas Iscariot); 3) of Paul and perhaps 5 or 6 others (Silas, Barnabas, James; cf. 1 Thess. 2:6; Gal. 1:19; 1 Cor. 15:7; Acts 14:4,14); a technical use of a restricted group; and 4) a general use of many individuals who were "sent out" by a church as a delegated representative or messenger (cf. 2 Cor. 8:23; Phil. 2:25). If it can be demonstrated that Andronicus and (his wife?) Junias were "apostles", and given the nature of the grammar this is highly unlikely, it would likely be only in this fourth sense.
Thus I find no support in this passage for the suggestion that women held the apostolic office in the NT and thus exercised spiritual authority over the entire church body.
Source:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/men-and-women-in-minis...
A woman can prophesy according to Joel 2:28 and 1 Corinthians 11: 4-5 but, she is not entitled to oversee a church. No!
The woman senior Pastor said:
“1st Corinthians 14:34-35 seems to be talking about unity not the role of women in the church. If a house is divided, it will fall.
The Corinthian Culture and its laws
Well, I decided to study the Corinthian culture and its laws. It clearly states that women could not answer questions in public. The set in the temple: men sat in the front and the women were in the back. The temple did not have speakers or microphones. So this made hearing the teachings of the Bible hard for a NEW Convert (The Corinthian Women).
The men were educated not the women. Anything that a women needs to know they must ask their husband.
NEW Converts: The Corinthian Women apparently, some women felt it was their right as Christian to ask questions in public, of course the Law did not permits this. This cause division in the church/Temple! In addition, in those times women were not taught religion and other skills for survival as thoroughly as men were. Paul basically, saying that any questions you have, ask your husband at home not during worship service.
Disobedience: Corinthian Men
Why the men disobey the Word which was taught by the Priest? 1st Corinthians 14:35 “And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church."
The men in the Corinthian culture believe the less women knew; more power they had.
Let’s look at the world NOW: Iran, Iraq, Turkey and many other third World countries who see women as second class citizens. Also, other non-Christian cultures believe the same way. Women should not know anything unless the men tell them. Because of this mentality the world is going to Hell with discrimination against man kind. When we as a people do not follow God Plan then destruction occurs.
It was about control not unity.
Part II
1Timothy2: 12, this passage has been interpreted fit need when others want to exercise their power. This scripture clearly prohibited the Ephesians women, not all women from teaching. Again, having knowledge of the Word or Maturity! Paul never forbids women from teaching. He commend co-worker Priscilla, taught Apollo’s, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26), Phoebe worked in the church (Romans 16:1) Mary, Tryphena and Tryphisa were the Lord’s workers (Roman 16:6,12) as Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2). They are many other women who held important roles in the church.
Genesis 1:27; justify women called into ministry, be the Father. When you disobey the Word, you are disobeying God.
Denominational Doctrine does not equal to any men account of what a women should be doing as a Christian according to men standards. I feel that when we start judging what God has already spoken. We are walking in disobedience. »
I thank you dear sister. But I think that your analysis above is a particular interpretation of the Word of God. The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.
Let’s see what Paul said:
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?
Paul truly said:
1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”
What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.
2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”
The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.
This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.
Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!
The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)
3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”
Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)
4- “The Lord's command”
What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15
Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!
The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).
That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on. And it’s valid for the women of today.
Priscilla never taught Apollos (Acts 18:24-26).
The Bible truly says that “Priscilla and Aquila heard him; they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.”
An explanation given to a man of God could not make Priscilla and her husband Pastors. A simple member of a church can explain something to any one more adequately. I’m not a Pastor but I’m preaching on the Black preaching network. I’m explaining to women of God the way of God adequately. Am I not?
Moreover, Genesis 1:27 can never justify women called into ministry. It’s true that God created male and female. But the Woman is a weaker partner (1 Peter 3:7). Her place is behind.
When she does anything that is contrary to the word of God she is walking in disobedience:
« Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling”.
Revelation 2: 20-21
We need to be living by the word. Anyone is saying that women are not being used in the body of Christ. The scriptures are clear about the roles of women: They must be good mothers as Deborah. They can prophesy. They should pray. They ought to fast and intercede (pray) day and night as Anna did to support the Work of God.
They should also imitate those women who were helping to support Jesus-Christ and the twelve out of their own means (Luke 8:1-3).
Woman, this is your position!
“He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
John 8:47
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Revelation 3:22
May God bless you!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
Doesn’t the interpretation of the Word of God come from the devil?
Didn’t he pervert the word of God formerly to induce in error Adam and Eve?
Doesn’t he still do it today?
WOMEN OF GOD, ARE YOU REALLY CONSCIOUS OF THE KEY ROLE THAT YOU OUGHT TO PLAY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST?
I am not a misogynist. I do have a mother and many sisters and I love women as I love my own relatives. I am not against the women but I would like that we probe the Holy Scriptures to see what must be the real position of the woman in the body of Christ. With this intention, we will analyze the point of view of a woman who is a senior Pastor.
First, let us know that the Bible recommends us not to go beyond what is written:
-“Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.”
Proverbs 30:6
- “Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain ».
1 Corinthians 15: 1-2
- “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ”.
Colossians 2:8
- Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
1 Corinthians 4:6
- “Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation”,
1 Peter 2: 1-2
-“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”
2 Timothy 4:3-4
- “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Revelation 22:18-19
And so on…
We all are unanimous that the Word of God should not be object of a particular interpretation (2 Peter 1: 20-21, 2 Peter 3: 14-16).
We also agree that unity in the body of Christ is possible only around the truth:
“If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth”.
1 Timothy 3:15
“I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.”
1 John 2:21
“What does the Bible teach about the role of the women of Body of Messiah? Is it scriptural for a woman to teach, preach the word in the assembly? Is it scriptural for a woman to be in the "Office of" Apostle, Pastor, Bishop or Minister?”
A BIBLICAL QUESTION MUST HAVE A BIBLICAL ANSWER.
Let us analyze what a woman pastor thinks and gradually compare her remarks to that the Bible teaches:
(Refer to: https://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=916966%3ATopic%3A...).
The woman Pastor said:
“The black church as we know it is the only institution in the black community that is still the last one to do away with segregation and seperation, in the Black church we do not let our women in the pulpit i must be honest a women can preach to me she can't pastor me. I have not been converted on that issue yet.”
I thank you dear sister! As you see, she has not been converted on that issue yet. Thus, this issue should not be a taboo. We must discuss it frankly in the light of the Holy Scriptures.
In addition, the woman senior Pastor, after having quoted 1 Corinthians 11: 3-16, gave her interpretation of it:
“Scripture Interpretation:
1 tn Or “the husband is the head of his wife.” The same Greek words translated “man” and “woman” can mean, as determined by context, “husband” and “wife” respectively. Such an approach is followed by NAB, TEV, NRSV, and NLT (with some variations).
2 sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.). The Greek word he uses here (ἐξουσία exousia; translated symbol of authority) could be (1) a figure of speech that may substitute the result (the right to participate in worship) for the appropriate appearance that makes it possible (the covered head). Or (2) it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church).
3 sn Paul does not explain this reference to the angels, and its point is not entirely clear. It seems to reflect an awareness that angels are witnesses to church life (cf. Eph 3:10) and would be particularly sensitive to resistance against God’s created order.
4 sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.
5 sn No word for veil or head covering occurs in vv. 3-14 (see the note on authority in v. 10). That the hair is regarded by Paul as a covering in v. 15 is not necessarily an argument that the hair is the same as the head covering that he is describing in the earlier verses (esp. v. 10). Throughout this unit of material, Paul points out the similarities of long hair with a head covering. But his doing so seems to suggest that the two are not to be identified with each other. Precisely because they are similar they do not appear to be identical (cf. vv. 5, 6, 7, 10, 13). If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)? This suggests that the covering is not the sam »
I thank you dear sister! The woman Pastor supports the idea according to which” sn Paul does not use a word specifying what type of “covering” is meant (veil, hat, etc.).”
With all the respect that I owe her I would like to tell her that this assertion is false.
Let’s see what the bible declares:
“Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering » (1 Corinthians 11: 13-15)
The word used by Paul specifying the type of covering is meant is “hair”, the “long hair” of the woman. We need not make Greek or Latin studies to understand that. Let us take simply what the Bible says. God is always revealed in simplicity (Matthew 11:25):
“The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.”
Psalm 119:130
Do not see figure of speech (metaphors) everywhere. The phrase “Long Hair” means “Long Hair”.
Here’s the interpretation given by the woman Pastor to define the hair of the woman:
“…it refers to the outward symbol (having the head covered) as representing the inward attitude the woman is to possess (deference to male leadership in the church)”.
This is a false interpretation of the Word of God. Let us see one of the passages of the Scriptures which deal with the inward attitude which a woman is to possess:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.”
1 Peter 3: 1-7
To define clearly what interior attitude a woman must have, did Paul need to use a metaphor here (in 1 Peter 3: 1-7)? No! Please do not add your point of view to the Word of God. The long hair of a woman is not the symbol of her inward attitude:
“Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight” (V. 3-4).
Since a man who requests or prophesies should not cover his head, can the woman Pastor tell me what is the outward symbol of the inward attitude of the man? Shouldn’t the man who requests or prophesies adopt the similar inward attitude like that of the woman?
“For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head” (V.10).
Truly speaking, it’s a physical sign and not an interior attitude.
It is neither a hat, nor a scarf or a piece of fabric but Paul refers to natural and long hair of the woman created by God Himself. As much God does not live in temples built by hands (Acts 17:24), under no circumstances would He take pleasure in a piece of fabric. He rather likes the natural hair of the woman.
Consequently, a woman should not cut off her hair. It is prohibited by God. Amen!
The woman Pastor said:
“sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of “the natural world” or “Mother Nature.” It denotes “the way things are” because of God’s design.”
I thank you dear sister! Let’s see what Paul said: ” Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.”
The nature of things here means the natural world. There’s no metaphor here. No! Let us see what the same Paul said in his epistle to Romans about the nature of things:
“For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
Romans 1:20
God is revealed to humanity through the nature, I mean the natural world, then through His Son Jesus-Christ and through His Word, the Bible. To understand God, it is necessary to understand the laws which govern the natural things which are the works of His hands. Thus, according to this nature of the things a man should not behave like a woman. A woman also should not behave like a man. This is a disorder, even an abomination (as regards sexual relationship for example):
“Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”
Romans 1:26-27
In the same way, the nature teaches us that man should not have long hair but on the contrary the woman must have long hair because the hair was given to her by the Creator as her veil. This is simple to understand. There’s no figure of speech here. No! Leave the passages of the Scriptures in their contexts. Do not try to adapt them to the particular doctrines of your denominations. The Word of God is for God and God is his own interpreter.
The woman Pastor asked a question:
“If head covering = long hair, then what does v. 6 mean (“For if a woman will not cover her head, she should cut off her hair”)?
I thank you dear sister! A biblical verse is a whole. Do not take a part a verse to explain all the verse. Thus, I would like to ask you a question too. The answer of my question will be the answer of yours:
According to you, what does the other part of the verse 6 below, which you quoted mean?
The same verse 6 of 1 Corinthians 11 says: “If it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head”. What does it mean?
I’m waiting for your answer!
The woman senior pastor said:
“Let's Understanding “Headship”
By now you are, no doubt, asking the question, “But isn’t the husband the head of the wife?”
The answer to that question hinges on the translation of the Greek word kephale translated “head” in Ephesians 5:23 and 1 Corinthians 11:3, and whether it means “authority over” or “source of life.”
In the New Testament the word “head” (kephale) is used the same way as the word “head” (ro’sh) is in the Old Testament. It stands for “chief” in speaking of Christ as “head of the corner.” Matthew 21:42, Luke 20:17, Acts 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Peter 2:7 are all referring to Psalm 118:22, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone.” To understand that verse one must understand the significance of the “chief cornerstone” of a building when the Psalmist penned those words.
In ancient times a huge stone was used as the headstone or cornerstone to give support to the entire building. The walls of the building were built in such a way that they wrapped around that chief cornerstone, giving the building the support that it needed. Christ is just that kind of support to the Church, binding its members together.
Ephesians 4:15, 16 says, But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects unto Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love.
Colossians 1:16-18 reminds us,
For in Him all things were created (He gave life), both in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
There is that chief cornerstone, again, holding things together. Then those verses go on to say that even as He is the One who holds everything else together, “He is also head of the body, the Church.” In other words, He gives life to the Church and holds it together. This whole passage is not talking about “authority” but “source of life.”
Colossians 2:18, 19 tells us to
Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the head from whom the entire body being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments grow with a growth which is from God.
Ephesians 1:20-23 speaking of Jesus, tells us that God . . . seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him who fills all in all.
But the Church is not there under His feet in this Headship of government, but, rather, is at His side. As Ephesians 2:6 says we are “seated with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus.” Further more, in Revelation 3:21, Jesus didn’t say, “This is My throne; keep away.” He said, “He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
All through these passages, Jesus is using the head/body metaphor and is speaking of the “head” as that which gives life to the body. None of these passages refer to Christ’s government. They represent Him as the supporter, nourisher, and builder of the body, not Her ruler. It is in this same way that man is the “head” of the wife.
Recent scholarship has increasingly concluded, after continued study of ancient biblical, secular, and medical writings, that kephale means “source of life” rather than “authority over.”
There are about 180 times in the Old Testament when the Hebrew word ro’sh clearly did mean “ruler,” “commander,” or “leader,” but the Septuagint translators rarely used kephale in translating these portions. They used other Greek words that more accurately defined “chief” when meaning a person of authority.
Kephale would have been the natural word to use in all the 180 instances if the word had been commonly understood to mean “leader or chief.” Its rare usage indicates that translators knew that kephale did not carry this meaning.10
Furthermore, examination of the seven passages where Paul used kephale in reference to Christ indicates that, when they are read with common Greek meanings of kephale, we see a more exalted Christ than when we read “head” primarily with the meaning of “authority over”.
11 Colossians 2:19 points to Christ as the source of life. Ephesians 4:15, 16 emphasize the unity of head and body and present Christ as the nourisher and source of growth.
Just as Christ personally brings His Church to perfection (Ephesians 4:11-13) by means of the five-fold ministry (apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher) “for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ,” so the husband’s desire should be to build up his wife until she becomes all God intended her to be.
Whom Should We Obey?
Aren’t we supposed to obey Christ? Yes, absolutely, because He is God! He is KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS! But that is not what these verses are talking about. These verses aren’t dealing with His Lordship as One Who should be obeyed, but with the headship of Jesus, the One Who is the “Source of Life” for His Body.
The Greek word that clearly means authority is exousia, not kephale. Christ’s authority over the Church and over the world is established in other passages of Scripture which use this Greek word exousia.
Some examples are:
“But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” – then He said to the paralytic, “Rise, take up your bed, and go home” (Matthew 9:6). And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth “ (Matthew 28:18).
For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man (John 5:26, 27).
In all three of these passages, the Greek word used is exousia, a word that does carry a clear meaning of authority.
However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
Jesus, in Matthew 20:25-28, made it very clear how fellow-disciples were to relate to one another. He said the Gentiles exercised authority over one another, but that it was not to be so among His followers. Rather, “whoever would be first let him be your servant.” This is the key to every relationship.
Philippians 2:3-8 admonishes, do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus is the perfect example of One Who came to serve mankind, unworthy as we are. The problem with humanity, and even the Body of Christ today, is that there is more interest in having authority over people — that is, being “in charge” — than a desire to live in a position of humility and servanthood.
Each of us, as Christians in general and husbands and wives in particular, so desperately need to follow Jesus’ example and embrace the brokenness of servanthood rather than revel in the selfishness of being served.
Men lets understand gender bias. First we must truly understand the word of God and break traditions that make women second class citizens because of what you have heard and mis interpreted scriptures which support superiority over gender.
Does Male Headship Indicate Authority?
The Old Testament are husbands "placed in the position of `masters,' `owners,' and `lords' over their wives." In the New Testament, in contrast, the Greek word for "head" may mean either "master" or "source," and - although she does not explicitly say this, we must assume it for her argument to be complete - when used to denote the husband's relation to the wife, it means "source." First, neither Testament teaches that husbands ought to be owners of their wives. The New Testament, however, cites approvingly the fact that "Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord" as exemplary for Christian wives (1 Peter 3:6), whom it exhorts, "be submissive to your own husbands. . . . For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves [with "chaste and respectful behavior"], being submissive to their own husbands" (1 Peter 3:1, 5). “
I thank you dear sister for your biblical demonstration!
However, I’d like to tell you that the problem lies in the fact that God has established a hierarchisation of the things. But you are opposed to that and you want to dispute thus with God.
The bible declares that “…the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” (1Corinthians 11:3). Moreover: “…the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man (V.7-9).
You do not want to admit that the man is the chief of the woman but you recognize that he’s the matrimonial head of the woman. Speaking about man, you admit that his authority towards the woman means that God has given him the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.
You said:” However, a husband is not King of Kings and should not take Christ’s position as lord of his wife. A woman must answer to her spiritual Master in exactly the same way as a man must. A husband, as the matrimonial head, is a fellow-servant of the King and the one to whom God has given the responsibility of infusing into his wife the fullest life possible.”
I thank you dear sister! But isn't there a contradiction in your remarks? Do you think that the responsibility conferred to man by God is without authority? But why wasn’t this responsibility which consists on infusing life in somebody also entrusted to the woman? Why isn’t the woman a matrimonial head? Why? Read your Bible again. Don’t you know that this responsibility underlies authority? If the responsibility given to man by God to exert a ministry implies the authority of man, doesn’t the responsibility conferred to him by God imply also the authority of the man? ( 2 Corinthians 13:9-10, Ephesians 4: 11-12).
Brother Paul said:
“We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority-the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.”
2 Corinthians 13:9-10
Don’t you know that the authority that Christ exerts towards His church is comparable to that which must exert the man towards the woman?
Man has an authority which was conferred to him by God. But this authority does not consist in crushing the woman, but on the contrary in building her up. Amen!
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.” AMEN!!!
Ephesians 5:22-24
Once again, let me tell you that there isn’t a metaphor here. Compared to man woman is a weaker partner?
“Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers”.
1 Peter 3:7
There’s no debate to be made in connection with the Authority of the man towards the woman since “…neither was man created for woman, but woman for man”
Man headship indicates Authority. Of course! Husbands ought to be owners of their wives according to the Bible (1 Peter 3: 6).
The woman senior Pastor said:
“In the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no longer exists, for as Galatians 3:28 states: `There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' (NIV). One does not represent the other."
To argue that this verse eliminates all legitimate differences in roles between men and women?
Including the fact that a woman is a proper spouse for a man but not for a woman and a man for a woman but not for a man?
If not, then we must learn what differences it does and does not eliminate from the immediate and larger context. It will not do simply to assert that this verse eliminates differences in authority and submission.
The context of Galatians 3:28 concerns salvation, with union with Christ. This, Paul concludes, comes about in the same way for every one - Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female - namely, by faith (Galatians 3:23-27). Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
I thank you dear sister! I’d like to tell you that in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women still exists: Indeed, Jesus-Christ said this:
“I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Matthew 5:18-19
Why, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
If in the new covenant, the hierarchical position of men over women no more exists, tell me why Paul, a preacher of the new covenant, speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies did refer to Genesis 3:16?
You are right when you say that” … one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33…”
These differences in roles are valid as well in the family as in the Church of Christ. The woman must adopt this same submissive attitude in her family as in the Assembly of the Saints. Because the Church starts in our houses (Titus 1:6-8; Titus 2:3-5).
However, what do you want to insinuate by the phrase: “Thus one may continue to recognize the differences in roles taught, for instance, in Ephesians 5:22-33 without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28.”
“… Without denying the truth of Galatians 3:28”?
Do you think that there’s a difference between Ephesians 5:22-33 and Galatians 3:28?
Isn't there a contradiction in your assertion? I believe that you have not understood Galatians 3:28 yet. As for the Holy Bible, it contains no contradiction! You need a revelation to understand the word of God!
What does Galatians 3: 28 say? It states that “WE ARE ALL ONE IN JESUS-CHRIST (Acts 15:8-9; Romans 3:21-31; 10: 12-13)
« There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Galatians 3:28
Consequently: “So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”
2 Corinthians 5:16
“For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile - the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Romans 10:12-13
The unicity in the body of Christ does not mean the suppression of the question of gender bias. It does not mean that the man and the woman have from now on the same roles or the same attributions in Christ.
The body of Christ is made up of several members. Each member however has a determined role to carry out:
“The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free - and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way.”
1 Corinthians 12:12-31
The woman has a great role to play in the body of Christ. However, as we will further see she should not become a Pastor, an overseer of a church. No!!!! It’s the exclusive role of men called by God Himself. Amen!!!
If being a Pastor represents being a hand, then a woman who is a foot should not say:” Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:15)
If being a Pastor represents being an eye, then a woman who is an ear should not say:” Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body” (1 Corinthians 12:16)
O you women, recognize your position please!
If you usurp the place of the men, then you are comparable to members of the body of Christ which are opposed to the order established by God Himself.
In the same way, in Christ, the husband and the wife are called to live harmoniously, but the problems occur in the family when the latter refuses to recognize her place and breaks that order. Then instability takes place. I insist to say that the need of Harmony in the family doesn’t imply that the woman and the man should have the same position or authority. Their relation is guided by the complementarity. Woman is a helpmate for man. But man is the chief of woman. Here is the true harmony.
This is similar in the Church of the Lord. Woman should not dominate Man. There’s no difference between the home and the church:
” Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church - for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." This is a profound mystery -but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.”
Ephesians 5:22-33
The woman Pastor said:
“There is a difference between your home and the church. Remember, God is the head of the church not man. Man is the head of the home.
This is often what we do with 1 Tim. 2:12, "I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man" (NASB).
We make in biblical interpretation occurs when we take one isolated verse and build a doctrine around it - even if the verse seems to contradict other passages.
Most theologians believe that this passage was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus. They came to this conclusion after studying the myriad of references in the Bible to women in spiritual authority. The Old Testament records that Deborah was a judge over Israel, and God blessed her leadership in battle (see Judges 4-5). Other women who held authority over men include Miriam, Huldah and Noadiah.²
Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10), and both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4). Priscilla, Chloe and Phoebe were leaders in the early church, and one woman, Junia, is called an apostle by Paul (Rom. 16:7).
The promise of the prophet Joel was that "sons and daughters" would prophesy after the Holy Spirit was given to the church (Joel 2:28, emphasis added). Yet we have taken one misunderstood verse from Paul's writings and used it to negate hundreds of other passages that support the full release of women into ministry”.
I thank you dear sister. Please read Ephesians 5:22-33 carefully, and you’ll realize that there’s no difference between the home and the church.
Why has Paul prohibited women to teach, but asked them to remain silent in the churches?
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Simply because God is God of order. The preaching of the woman in the church is a disorder. Preaching in the church is not the role assigned by God to the woman.
You need a revelation to understand the Epistles of Paul which deal with the position of women in the assemblies. The old women can teach the young women. The women can exhort one another), of course!
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
They can testify as the Samaritan woman did:
"Come; see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?"
John 4:29
They can pray or prophesy (1 Corinthians 11:4-5).
However, they do not have the right to be put behind the pulpit to teach the Word of God, in the Assemblies of the Saints, in the presence of the men and the women. I think that the Bible is sufficiently clear.
If Peter were alive He would take part in this discussion by saying this:
"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction".
2 Peter 3:14-16
Moreover, tell me why speaking about the place of the woman in the assemblies Paul referred to Genesis 3:16?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
Timothy 2:12-15
“To the woman he said I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
Why? Tell me why?
Paul knew that the man and the woman were equal at the beginning. But the woman lost this position after the transgression (original sin). Since this time the man was to dominate the woman. It was a consecutive punishment of the sin of the woman. Paul knew that this imposed sanction with regard of the woman was always in force in the new covenant because the law was not abolished (Matthew 5:18), but Jesus-Christ came to perfect it.
This is not a simple opinion of Paul but he took care to specify the motivation or the biblical base of what he said. He even insisted to say that it was the “Lord’s command”.
O you women, do you want to obey the command of the Lord or on the contrary, do you want obstinately to fulfil your own will? Do as you think fit, but let me tell you that the Word of God is immutable. You ought to comply. It’s not the Word of God who owes to adapt to your suitabilities.
You said that “most theologians believe that this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus.” Let me tell you therefore that this is their own belief, their own feeling, their own thought. It’s not what the Bible truly says.
The Bible says that:
« All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Please tell me, were the verses 9 and 10 of the same chapter 2 of Timothy, related to woman’s clothing also addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus? I don’t think so!
If this passage (1 Timothy 2:12) was addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus, why did Paul refer to Genesis 3:16?
You said that in the Old Testament Deborah held authority over men. Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel. Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do. The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).
A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.
Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war. The attitude of Barak was to some extent an escape of responsibility, a disengagement. Men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak: “Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)
Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:
"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)
Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!
Authority belongs to man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an extract of her canticle:
“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”
(Judges 5:7)
Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!
Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!
Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.
Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.
You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are mothers.
The Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:15
This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.
Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
1 Peter 3:1-6
The woman senior Pastor said that “Jesus issued His first gospel commission to women (see Matt. 28:1-10)”
Please, tell me can commission issued to women make them Pastors or Evangelists? No!
For example, can we assert that the Samaritan woman was a Pastor an Evangelist (John 4: 28-30)?
I don’t think so! Admittedly she was not sent by Jesus but she also made a testimony concerning Jesus-Christ.
Then you said that “… both men and women were empowered to preach on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)”
Is it what the Bible truly says? No!
Admittedly, all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them, but only the twelve disciples (MEN ONLY) were entitled to teach on the day Pentecost:
“Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”
Acts 2:14
Please, Show me in the Bible where a woman has been called an Evangelist or a Pastor!
Please show me!!!
In the Bible, Philippe (A MAN) was the only one who has been called “EVANGELIST” expressly:
« Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the EVANGELIST, one of the Seven.”
Acts 21:8
Timothy (A MAN) as for him was exhorted to make work of an EVANGELIST:
« But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry”.
2 Timothy 4:5
Moreover, the Overseer or the Bishop of an assembly must be a MAN:
“Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. Now the overseer must be above reproach, the HUSBAND of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.”
1 Timothy 3:1-7
“The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. An elder must be blameless, the HUSBAND of but one wife, a MAN whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless - not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.”
Titus 1:5-9
In Israel were there women among the descendants of Levi who became priests? No!
“Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people - that is, their brothers - even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. This MAN, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. In the one case, the tenth is collected by MEN who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham”.
Hebrews 7:5-9
Let me tell you that God was against and He is still against women being overseers and holding authority over men. AMEN!
The prophets established by God in the church belong to the five ministries (Ephesians 4:11). The gift of prophecy is one of the nine gifts of the Spirit (1Corinthians 12).
In the Old Testament, are mentioned the prophetess Miriam (Exodus 15), the prophetess Deborah (Judges 4), the prophetess Hulda (2 Kings 22), the prophetess to whom Isaiah went (Isaiah 8:3) and so on.
In the New Testament we can mention the prophetess Anna (Luke 2: 36-38).
But none of those women has become an Overseer in the church. Anna was not a Teacher or an Overseer; she never left the temple though. She worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. Can we insinuate that Anna was an Overseer because she never left the temple? No! Anna knew her place in the church. She interceded to support the work of God. Women, this is what you must do instead of running towards the Pulpit. Please leave the pulpit; it’s not your place!
Your duty is to pray, to intercede night and day in order to support the men of God as Priscilla and Aquila did aside Paul.
Woman’s place is behind.
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
Yes, woman’s place is behind!
All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.
All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).
The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.
No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.
Phoebe was a servant, namely a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea (Romans 16:1). She was not a Pastor.
Priscilla and Aquila were fellow workers of Paul (Romans 16:3).
For example, Deborah was the felow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!
It was the same thing for Priscilla and Aquila aside Paul. Being felow workers of Paul doesn’t necessarily mean that they were leaders in the early church. No!
You said that a woman (“Junia”) was called an “Apostle” by Paul. There’s no contradiction in the Bible.
This is what the Bible truly says:
”Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.”
Romans 16:7
The Bible, The New International Version says “JUNIAS”. “JUNIAS” is a Latin name. Junias was a Man, a Christian of Rome, relative and ancient companion of captivity of Paul.
No woman was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul.
Let’s meditate the article below:
“The First Woman Apostle – So-called
By WAYNE JACKSON
October 31, 2005
Junia—The First Woman Apostle is the title of a book by Lutheran scholar Eldon Jay Epp. According to a recent edition of Christian News (10/3/05, pp. 1ff), Epp is Harness Professor of Biblical Literature emeritus and Dean of Humanities and Social Sciences emeritus at Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, OH). He is also recent Visiting Professor of New Testament at Harvard Divinity School (2002-03; 2004-05). Epp is associated with a very liberal element of the Lutheran fellowship, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, a community that promotes “women clergy.”
Epp’s book is alleged to be the “last word” regarding the controversy as to whether “Junia” (feminine, KJV), or “Junias” (masculine, ASV), as mentioned in Romans 16:7, was a female or male. And if a female, whether she was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul. But Professor Epp’s “last word,” we insist, is not, in fact, the “last word.”
In the first place, in the Greek text the name is Junian (in the accusative case - the gender of the name not being identifiable). It could either be Junia (feminine), or Junias (masculine). Lightfoot contended that the term reflects “probably a man’s name, Junias contracted from Junianus, as it is taken by Origen” (p. 96). Origen was a “Christian” writer who is dated from c. A.D. 185-253. On the other hand, Chrysostom (c. A.D. 347-407) identifies the name as that of a woman.
Even some conservative scholars, however, argue that Junia (English, Julia) is correct, and there are a couple of compelling points in this direction, though they are not decisive.
First, early church history more commonly identified the name with a woman - up to the 13th century. Second, the name Junias (masculine) does not appear in early secular inscriptional evidence. In response, however, it might be noted first that from the 13th century to the mid-20th century, this person was perceived to be a man (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV). Many scholars could be introduced advancing this idea. While “Junias” apparently does not appear in the ancient inscriptions, Junianos is a very common name. A.T. Robertson contended that Junias could be an abbreviation of Junianos (p. 172). Such would be analogous to Lucas for Lucanus, and Silas, as an abbreviation for Silvanus.
But the fact is, the case that Epp and a few others are attempting to make for feminine leadership in the church really does not turn upon whether or not Junian is masculine or feminine.
Additionally, it is by no means certain that Junias is even identified as an “apostle.” The phrase “of note among the apostles” (ASV) is rendered by Zahn as “famed, mentioned with honor in the circle of the apostles” (p. 418), giving the sense of being well - known by the apostles, rather than actually being identified as an apostle. Moule renders it, “well known to, and honored by the Apostles” (p. 248). Various other scholars argue similarly. Note the English Standard Version, “well known to the apostles.”
Then consider this. The word “apostle” is used occasionally in the Bible in a non-technical sense to denote simply a messenger. Jesus said that “one sent” (apostolos) is not greater than the sender (John 13:16). In a general sense Christ himself was an “apostle” (Hebrews 3:1), i.e., one sent from heaven. Barnabas, Silvanus, and Timothy also were designated as “apostles” (Acts 14:4,14; 1 Thessalonians 2:6), though not in the same authoritative sense as the Twelve and Paul.
Then the following point devastates Epp’s thesis. If the name is “Junia,” (a woman), and this lady was an apostle with authority equivalent to that of Paul himself, then Paul is hopelessly in conflict with his own writings.
An apostle of Christ spoke or wrote with full authority, and numerous examples from Paul’s own writings clearly illustrate this. Note, for example, in the letters to Timothy, the expression, “I charge you.” (1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:1,14). The expression signifies “to exhort with authority in matters of extraordinary importance” (Danker, p. 233).
Yet elsewhere Paul explicitly forbids a woman to “exercise authority over a man” (1 Timothy 2:12). Does the apostle commend in one place what he prohibits in another? No respectable Bible student would dare defend such a proposition.
Epp, however, in a typically modernistic fashion, dismisses this passage as non-Pauline. Allegedly, the text is the work of a later writer who thrust his views relative to the “subordination of women” into the sacred text. This idiosyncratic view was not held in antiquity by those best qualified to know the authorship of the book, and it has been exposed many times by conservative scholars (see Mounce, pp. cxviiiff).
Finally, if “Junia,” a woman, was an official “apostle,” with the prominence and authority comparable to Peter or Paul, why, pray tell, is “she” never mentioned again in the entire New Testament, or at least, if only once, in a text that is non-ambiguous, so that it clearly establishes the case that liberalism so desperately desires? This is telling indeed. And why would Paul need to go to Rome, to impart to the saints there “some spiritual gift” (Romans 1:11), when, allegedly, there already was an apostle there who could handle that chore?
Sources/Footnotes
Danker, F.W. et al. (2000), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Chicago: University of Chicago).
Lightfoot, J.B. (1957 Reprint), The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (Grand Rapids: Zondervan).
Moule, H.C.G. (1977 Reprint), Studies in Romans (Grand Rapids: Kregel).
Mounce, Willian D. (2000), Pastoral Epistles—Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson).
Robertson, A.T. (1919), A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (London: Hodder & Stoughton).
Zahn, Theodor (1909), Introduction to the New Testament (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark), Vol. 1.
Source:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1073-the-first-woman-apost...”
Let us meditate an other article:
“Men and Women in Ministry: Was Junias a Female Apostle?
In Paul’s greetings to the saints in Rome , he includes the following:
“Greet Andronicus and Junia [or Junias], my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me” (ESV; Romans 16:7).
Some translations render this, “well known among the apostles,” thus implying that both Andronicas and Junia were themselves apostles. There are several questions that must be addressed.
First, is Junias masculine or feminine? If feminine, then they are most likely husband and wife. Recent examination of extensive Greek literature outside the Bible gives little help. The word Junias turned up only twice as a woman's name and only once as a man's name. If Junias is a woman, do we have reference here to a female apostle? If so, it would be difficult to restrict women from holding senior governmental authority in the local church insofar as the office of apostle in the New Testament was the pinnacle of spiritual authority.
Second, how should we translate the passage: “well known to the apostles” or “well known among the apostles”? The latter would suggest that Andronicus and Junias were themselves apostles, well known in that unique circle of believers. The former would suggest that the apostles, such as Paul, knew these two people quite well.
The point has been made that "since Andronicus and Junias were Christians before Paul was, it may be that their longstanding ministry (reaching back before Paul's) is precisely what Paul might have in mind when he says 'of note among the apostles.' They may well have been known among the apostles before Paul was even converted" (Piper/Grudem, 80).
However, recent analysis of the grammar of this text (see M. H. Burer and D. B. Wallace, “Was Junias Really an Apostle? A Reexamination of Romans 16:7,” New Testament Studies 47 [2001]:76-91) has demonstrated that this particular construction should be rendered “well known to the apostles.” There is, therefore, no support for the idea that Junias, whether male or female, was herself/himself(?) an apostle.
Third, we must take into consideration how the word “apostle” is used in the NT. It is actually used in four senses: 1) of Jesus as The Apostle; 2) of the original twelve (with Matthias having replaced Judas Iscariot); 3) of Paul and perhaps 5 or 6 others (Silas, Barnabas, James; cf. 1 Thess. 2:6; Gal. 1:19; 1 Cor. 15:7; Acts 14:4,14); a technical use of a restricted group; and 4) a general use of many individuals who were "sent out" by a church as a delegated representative or messenger (cf. 2 Cor. 8:23; Phil. 2:25). If it can be demonstrated that Andronicus and (his wife?) Junias were "apostles", and given the nature of the grammar this is highly unlikely, it would likely be only in this fourth sense.
Thus I find no support in this passage for the suggestion that women held the apostolic office in the NT and thus exercised spiritual authority over the entire church body.
Source:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/men-and-women-in-minis...
A woman can prophesy according to Joel 2:28 and 1 Corinthians 11: 4-5 but, she is not entitled to oversee a church. No!
The woman senior Pastor said:
“1st Corinthians 14:34-35 seems to be talking about unity not the role of women in the church. If a house is divided, it will fall.
The Corinthian Culture and its laws
Well, I decided to study the Corinthian culture and its laws. It clearly states that women could not answer questions in public. The set in the temple: men sat in the front and the women were in the back. The temple did not have speakers or microphones. So this made hearing the teachings of the Bible hard for a NEW Convert (The Corinthian Women).
The men were educated not the women. Anything that a women needs to know they must ask their husband.
NEW Converts: The Corinthian Women apparently, some women felt it was their right as Christian to ask questions in public, of course the Law did not permits this. This cause division in the church/Temple! In addition, in those times women were not taught religion and other skills for survival as thoroughly as men were. Paul basically, saying that any questions you have, ask your husband at home not during worship service.
Disobedience: Corinthian Men
Why the men disobey the Word which was taught by the Priest? 1st Corinthians 14:35 “And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church."
The men in the Corinthian culture believe the less women knew; more power they had.
Let’s look at the world NOW: Iran, Iraq, Turkey and many other third World countries who see women as second class citizens. Also, other non-Christian cultures believe the same way. Women should not know anything unless the men tell them. Because of this mentality the world is going to Hell with discrimination against man kind. When we as a people do not follow God Plan then destruction occurs.
It was about control not unity.
Part II
1Timothy2: 12, this passage has been interpreted fit need when others want to exercise their power. This scripture clearly prohibited the Ephesians women, not all women from teaching. Again, having knowledge of the Word or Maturity! Paul never forbids women from teaching. He commend co-worker Priscilla, taught Apollo’s, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26), Phoebe worked in the church (Romans 16:1) Mary, Tryphena and Tryphisa were the Lord’s workers (Roman 16:6,12) as Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2). They are many other women who held important roles in the church.
Genesis 1:27; justify women called into ministry, be the Father. When you disobey the Word, you are disobeying God.
Denominational Doctrine does not equal to any men account of what a women should be doing as a Christian according to men standards. I feel that when we start judging what God has already spoken. We are walking in disobedience. »
I thank you dear sister. But I think that your analysis above is a particular interpretation of the Word of God. The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.
Let’s see what Paul said:
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?
Paul truly said:
1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”
What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.
2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”
The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.
This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.
Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!
The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)
3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”
Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)
4- “The Lord's command”
What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15
Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!
The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).
That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on. And it’s valid for the women of today.
Priscilla never taught Apollos (Acts 18:24-26).
The Bible truly says that “Priscilla and Aquila heard him; they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.”
An explanation given to a man of God could not make Priscilla and her husband Pastors. A simple member of a church can explain something to any one more adequately. I’m not a Pastor but I’m preaching on the Black preaching network. I’m explaining to women of God the way of God adequately. Am I not?
Moreover, Genesis 1:27 can never justify women called into ministry. It’s true that God created male and female. But the Woman is a weaker partner (1 Peter 3:7). Her place is behind.
When she does anything that is contrary to the word of God she is walking in disobedience:
« Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling”.
Revelation 2: 20-21
We need to be living by the word. Anyone is saying that women are not being used in the body of Christ. The scriptures are clear about the roles of women: They must be good mothers as Deborah. They can prophesy. They should pray. They ought to fast and intercede (pray) day and night as Anna did to support the Work of God.
They should also imitate those women who were helping to support Jesus-Christ and the twelve out of their own means (Luke 8:1-3).
Woman, this is your position!
“He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
John 8:47
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Revelation 3:22
May God bless you!
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by N'ZI Amani Germain on
-
Brother Trevor,
WAS PHOEBE REALLY A DEACON?
I'm not a hypocrite for that.
When I use one of my French Bibles, this is what is written "Je vous recommande Phoebé, notre soeur, qui est diaconesse de l'Église de Cenchrées"
Romains 16:1 (Louis Segond)
It is written that our sister Phoebe was a DEACON.
But, when I use the King James Version, it is written that Phebe our sister, was a SERVANT.
"I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:"
Romans 16:1 (King James Version)
When I use the Darby Translation, it is written that Phoebe, our sister, was a MINISTER.
"But I commend to you Phoebe, our sister, who is minister of the assembly which is in Cenchrea";
Romans 16:1 (Darby Translation)
And so on...
According to you, which version should I choose?
Indeed, I used to take quotations from my french bible (Louis Segond version) during my studies, but I've come to the conclusion that it is high time I changed my comprehension of the role of Phoebe as expressed in this Bible (DEACON) because it does not line up with the definition given by the Bible of that ministry.
Let us see it:
“ 8Ministers, in like manner, grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not seeking gain by base means, 9holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10And let these be first proved, then let them minister, being without charge [against them].
11[The] women in like manner grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let [the] ministers be husbands of one wife, conducting [their] children and their own houses well: 13for those who shall have ministered well obtain for themselves a good degree, and much boldness in faith which [is] in Christ Jesus.”
1 Timothy 3:8-13 (Darby Translation)
As we see, a Minister should be a Man according to the verses 8, 9 and 10.
The instructions concerning women can be seen only at the verse 11:
"11[The] women in like manner grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things".
According to the verses 11, 12 and 13, the Ministers (the Deacons according to my French Bible, Louis Second) should be "husbands of one wife, conducting [their] children and their own houses well: 13for those who shall have ministered well obtain for themselves a good degree, and much boldness in faith which [is] in Christ Jesus”
So Phoebe, could nener be a Deacon or a Minister in the sense equivalent to that of the Men.
Do you agree with me?
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
-
-
Brother Trevor,
DEBORAH WAS A JUDGE, BUT NOT IN A SENSE EQUIVALENT TO THAT OF OTHNIEL and EHUD.
Brother,
You are leading women astray.
Please, do not try to please women but please God.
Indeed, brother Paul said:
“For do I now seek to satisfy men or God? or do I seek to please men? If I were yet pleasing men, I were not Christ's bondman.”
Galatians 1:10
Please, quit(leave) feminism and preach only the Word of God.
Indeed, you said:
“Barak was the leader of the ARMY, not the nation. Operating in the office Moses once held, Deborah was in lead position, while Barak played a Joshua role”.
Brother, the Bible states clearly that Sisera was the captain of the army of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor (Judges 4:2).
So when you say that “Barak was the leader of the ARMY, not the nation”, do you want to insinuate that Barak was the leader of the ARMY of Deborah?
The ARMY of Deborah, since she would be leader of the whole nation ?
Is this your teaching?
Brother, why did God raise up Judges in Israel?
He raised up Judges in Israel in order to save Israel out of the hands of its enemies.
“ Then the LORD raised up judges, who saved them out of the hands of these raiders”.
Judges 2:16
No one has said that Doborah had not play a role.
Certainly, she was a Judge, but she was not a Judge in a sense equivalent to that of the other Judes because she was a WOMAN.
Let us see:
The Bible says that God raised up for Israelites a deliverer, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, who saved them. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war.
“But when they cried out to the LORD, he raised up for them a deliverer, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, who saved them. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him. 11 So the land had peace for forty years, until Othniel son of Kenaz died”.
Judges 3:9-11
Brother, the Bible says that OTHNIEL, son of Kenaz, the JUDGE WENT TO WAR.
His appeal was directly linked to the cries of the Israelites. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war (himself).
Let us see an other example:
The Bible states that God raised up for Israelites a deliverer Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite.
“ 15 Again the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer—Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab. 16 Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [a] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols [b] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [c] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. 22 Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. 23 Then Ehud went out to the porch [d] ; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them”.
Judges 3:15-23
Brother, the Bible says that "EHUD, a left-handed man, the Judge of Israel had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [a] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols [b] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [c] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly".
Here again, we notice that the appeal of the Judge EHUD was directly linked to the cries of the Israelites, so at the idols near Gilgal he himself turned back and said to the King, "I have a secret message for you.
Yes, EHUD Himself drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the belly Eglon king of Moab.
Brother, do you know the leader of the ARMY of OTHNIEL and EHUD?
Were they leaders of the nation who didn’t possess army captains?
New let us see the appeal of Deborah.
“And the children of Israel cried to Jehovah; for he had nine hundred chariots of iron, and he mightily oppressed the children of Israel twenty years. And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim; and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
Judges 4:3-5
Brother, the appeal of Deborah was not directly linked to the cries of the Israelites, because she was already a Judge before their cries. She was also a prophetess.
“…Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time…”
Brother, please answer my question:
Why doesn’t the Bible say that the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer, Deborah the prophetess?
Why?
This is what the Bible says:
“And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-Naphtali, and said to him, Hath not Jehovah the God of Israel commanded? Go and draw towards mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun.”
Judges 4:6
Why did Deborah send and call Barak ( A MAN) ?
Why didn’t Deborah decide to go to war herself as OTHNIEL and EHUD did?
Why?
Because she was a WOMAN.
Women of God, please recognize that you are WOMEN.
Please recognize your limits as Deborah did.
Please, do not be ashamed of your statute. To be a WOMAN is not a shame.
The Bible says that you are WEAKER vessels.
“7[Ye] husbands likewise, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, as with a weaker, [even] the female, vessel, giving [them] honour, as also fellow-heirs of [the] grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered”.
1 Peter 3:7
Certainly, Deborah was a Judge, but she was not a Judge in a sense equivalent to that of OTHNIEL and EHUD because she was a WOMAN.
Deborah has played a role as a Prophetess, not as a warrior, a true leader or a true General who goes to war himself.
Indeed, Deborah said:
“My heart is toward the governors of Israel, who offered themselves willingly among the people. Praise the LORD! »
JUDGES 5: 9
Women of God, you must be grateful like Deborah and praise the LORD for having commended Pastors, Evangelists, Doctors, Apostles, Prophets, among you.
“It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers.”
Ephesians 4:11
Please, praise the Lord for that! Please, be grateful for that!
As Deborah, please leave the pulpit or the authority to men ordained by God who offered themselves willingly among the people of God.
Truly speaking, Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel.
Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do.
The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14).
See : “…into your hands…”! Yes, into the hands of Barak, A MAN. Amen!
A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.
Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war.
The attitude of Barak was to some extent a release of liability, a disengagement.
Of course, today, men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak:
“Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8)
Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak:
"Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10)
Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen!
"...But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman..."
Authority belongs to Barak, the man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an excerpt of her canticle:
“Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.”
(Judges 5:7)
Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER!
Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen!
Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER.
Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you can prophesy, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS.
You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are
mothers.
Deborah was the felow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
Yes, woman’s place is behind!
All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.
All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).
The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.
No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.
Indeed, the Bible says: “But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
1 Timothy 2:15
This is your true position in Jesus-Christ. As good mothers you ought to teach what is good to your daughters:”
“Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
Old women should not train the younger women to become pastors or to hold authority over men. But they should teach them to become also good mothers, loving their husbands and children, being self-controlled and pure, being busy at home, being kind, and being subject to their husbands.
Women, this is your role as members of the body of Christ. You have many things to do. Then do not usurp the role of the men. Not only you must teach the younger women but also your behavior owes to be a preaching for your husbands:
“Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
1 Peter 3:1-6
If the Bible is your absolute, then say a big AMEN to that!
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
-
-
BLESSED BE THE LORD BECAUSE I'VE JUST MET AN OTHER SPIRITUALLY BLIND WOMAN SO CALLED "APOSTLE" YENAN!
MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES DEAR SISTER!
BLESSINGS,
BRO. GERMAIN
-
-
Are Women's Ministries and Conferences Helping Fulfill Women's Destiny's or Or Diverting Their True Purpose? Let's Look Deeper!"
"I am sure I will get some attitude over this blog, but I believe this point is valid. If all this ministry is making us better, then statistics should be on our side (women's side). The only way to find the truth about something is to judge it's fruit. Now before we throw up the "don't judge lest ye be judged" line, let's look at 1 Cor 2:15 which says "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things...". I believe our true problem in The Body of Christ is that we haven't judged anything for a long time. Where there is no judge you have lawlessness. If we look at statistics as women's ministry has risen so has the divorce rate in the church, so has AIDS and HIV among women, so has homosexuality and lesbiansm, so has abortion just to name a few. If we are getting more "spiritual", then why are our homes doing worse than at any other time in history. It seems the more women become empowered by ministry the more their ministries focus on themselves. The bible said "older women teach the younger women how to love their husbands", but you have never seen a conference like that. When we see a scripture were women were suppose to teach something, it was "how to love your husband 101". If these conferences are not producing better homes and marriages, what are they producing? These ministries are not teaching against divorce, homosexuality or abortion which are all subjects that destroy the family. Oh...family? I think we have uncovered the plan of the enemy....."Keep the women distracted and seeking "the Knowledge" which only leads her to herself and destroy the seed which was suppose to crush the head of the serpent! It was vanity (foolish pride) that inticed Eve to eat the fruit. This vanity is what causes women to be ever learning but never come to the knowledge of the truth: Knowledge puffeth up or makes you proud. This pride is what robs women of there purpose: submisssion. Submission is the most powerful weapon in the Kingdom. It was the weapon that our Savoir used to overcome the worse injustice. The judgement for Eve seeking "the knowlegde" was God brought her under submission. Submission was not punishment, but protection. Without this protection the serpent would continue to try and beguile her which would allow him access to the seed. The knowledge she gains will always cause her to rule or control instead of submit. So God in His wisdom commanded the man to lead her so she would be protected from vanity which divides her from the man. These conferences get women out from under the authority of the man and leave them without a covering or authority. Without a covering the enemy destroys the seed. This is what is fueling these statistics. When our women are seeking this super deepness they become to "spiritual to submit to their husbands because of this "knowledge". Call it old-fashion, but the bible had it right.
"Your desire shall be to your husband and HE shall rule over you." I must come against the Spirit of Jezebel that upsets the order of the home thru false spirituality. If we were truly following Christ we would be having family conferences which fulfill the purpose of the whole family and not SINGLE out the heart (the woman) that makes the family beat.
Hear my heart as a pastor. This was not to hurt, demean or insult anyone. It is only a spiritual man judging spiritual things".
Pastor Stephen Darby
Source:
http://www.blackpreachingnetwork.com/forum/topics/are-womens-minist...
A FOOD FOR THOUGHT!
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
-
-
WOMEN APOSTLES, IS THIS SO IN GOD'S HOUSE?
No, this is not so in God's house!
Indeed, the Bible says:
"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers"
Ephesians 4:11
Jesus-Christ is the One who calls true Ministers. Those ones need not to be trained in a Seminary or a Pastoral school.
“For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends”.
2 Corinthians 10:18
Moreover, Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO OVERSEE CHURCHES.
Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO BECOME PASTORS.
Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO BECOME APOSTLES.
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
No! This is not so in God's house!
Woman’s place is behind!
All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church.
All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).
The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place.
No woman was leader in the early church.
However, today, men have created their own churches, in which women are ordained Pastors.
Thus, there is a differentiation to be made between the true CHURCH of Jesus and the Churches established by business men and women.
Indeed, Jesus Christ has a single Church which is built on revelation:
“And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build MY CHURCH, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
Matthew 16:18
Jesus says: “MY CHURCH”
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST IS NOT A DENOMINATION ESTABLISHED BY MAN.
Indeed, a true Pastor must not wonder How to establish a Church for the One who calls the true ministers is the only one who establishes the CHURCH.
The One who calls the Pastors is the only One Who builds or establishes the CHURCH, His CHURCH.
And the One who builds the Church is the only One who adds to the number of the believers daily those who were being saved (Acts 2:47)
The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.
Indeed, a woman can prophesy according to Joel 2:28
"And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions”.
Joel 2:28
Let me tell you that the teaching of Brother Paul was in line with Joel 2:28 1.
Brother Paul teaches that a woman can pray or prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5)
The teaching of Brother Peter (Acts 2:17) was in line with Joel 2:28 1.
The promise of the prophet Joel was that "sons and daughters" would prophesy after the Holy Spirit was given to the church (Joel 2:28)
Admittedly, all of them, men and women were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
HOWEVER, only the twelve Disciples (MEN ONLY) were entitled to teach on the day Pentecost:
“Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”
Acts 2:14
Joel 2:28 can never justify women’s teaching in the Assembly of the Saints.
But what should women do in the Church?
As good mothers old women ought to teach what is good to their daughters: a woman can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.”
Titus 2:3-5
They can testify as the Samaritan woman did:
"Come; see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?"
John 4:29
They can prophesy, pray, testify or teach young women.
HOWEVER, they do not have the right to be put behind the pulpit to teach the Word of God, in the Assemblies of the Saints, in the presence of the men and the women. I think that the Bible is sufficiently clear.
I refuse to join the false teachers in their new era.
I choose to get stuck on the old school teaching of Brother Paul and all the Apostles, because the true Church of Jesus Christ is “built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone”.
Ephesians 2:20
Please tell me, were the teachings of the Apostle Paul related to woman’s clothing or submission in the church, to their husband addressing an isolated situation in Ephesus and Corinth?
I don’t think so!
Are the teachings of the Apostle Paul on these issues outdated?
NO, I do not think so!
Because the Bible declares that: « All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Let’s see what Paul said:
“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”
1 Corinthians 14:33-37
Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?
Paul truly said:
1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”
What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.
2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”
The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.
This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.
Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!
The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)
3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”
Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)
4- “The Lord's command”
What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!
Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15
Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!
The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).
That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on.
And it’s valid for the women of today.
May God open your eyes!
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
-
-
Sister YENAN,
WHAT IS THE TRUTH?
WAS JUNIA AN APOSTLE?
THE TRUTH IS AS FOLLOWS:
“The First Woman Apostle – So-called
By WAYNE JACKSON
October 31, 2005
Junia—The First Woman Apostle is the title of a book by Lutheran scholar Eldon Jay Epp. According to a recent edition of Christian News (10/3/05, pp. 1ff), Epp is Harness Professor of Biblical Literature emeritus and Dean of Humanities and Social Sciences emeritus at Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, OH). He is also recent Visiting Professor of New Testament at Harvard Divinity School (2002-03; 2004-05). Epp is associated with a very liberal element of the Lutheran fellowship, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, a community that promotes “women clergy.”
Epp’s book is alleged to be the “last word” regarding the controversy as to whether “Junia” (feminine, KJV), or “Junias” (masculine, ASV), as mentioned in Romans 16:7, was a female or male. And if a female, whether she was an “apostle” in a sense equivalent to that of Peter and Paul. But Professor Epp’s “last word,” we insist, is not, in fact, the “last word.”
In the first place, in the Greek text the name is Junian (in the accusative case - the gender of the name not being identifiable). It could either be Junia (feminine), or Junias (masculine). Lightfoot contended that the term reflects “probably a man’s name, Junias contracted from Junianus, as it is taken by Origen” (p. 96). Origen was a “Christian” writer who is dated from c. A.D. 185-253. On the other hand, Chrysostom (c. A.D. 347-407) identifies the name as that of a woman.
Even some conservative scholars, however, argue that Junia (English, Julia) is correct, and there are a couple of compelling points in this direction, though they are not decisive.
First, early church history more commonly identified the name with a woman - up to the 13th century. Second, the name Junias (masculine) does not appear in early secular inscriptional evidence. In response, however, it might be noted first that from the 13th century to the mid-20th century, this person was perceived to be a man (ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV). Many scholars could be introduced advancing this idea. While “Junias” apparently does not appear in the ancient inscriptions, Junianos is a very common name. A.T. Robertson contended that Junias could be an abbreviation of Junianos (p. 172). Such would be analogous to Lucas for Lucanus, and Silas, as an abbreviation for Silvanus.
But the fact is, the case that Epp and a few others are attempting to make for feminine leadership in the church really does not turn upon whether or not Junian is masculine or feminine.
Additionally, it is by no means certain that Junias is even identified as an “apostle.” The phrase “of note among the apostles” (ASV) is rendered by Zahn as “famed, mentioned with honor in the circle of the apostles” (p. 418), giving the sense of being well - known by the apostles, rather than actually being identified as an apostle. Moule renders it, “well known to, and honored by the Apostles” (p. 248). Various other scholars argue similarly. Note the English Standard Version, “well known to the apostles.”
Then consider this. The word “apostle” is used occasionally in the Bible in a non-technical sense to denote simply a messenger. Jesus said that “one sent” (apostolos) is not greater than the sender (John 13:16). In a general sense Christ himself was an “apostle” (Hebrews 3:1), i.e., one sent from heaven. Barnabas, Silvanus, and Timothy also were designated as “apostles” (Acts 14:4,14; 1 Thessalonians 2:6), though not in the same authoritative sense as the Twelve and Paul.
Then the following point devastates Epp’s thesis. If the name is “Junia,” (a woman), and this lady was an apostle with authority equivalent to that of Paul himself, then Paul is hopelessly in conflict with his own writings.
An apostle of Christ spoke or wrote with full authority, and numerous examples from Paul’s own writings clearly illustrate this. Note, for example, in the letters to Timothy, the expression, “I charge you.” (1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:1,14). The expression signifies “to exhort with authority in matters of extraordinary importance” (Danker, p. 233).
Yet elsewhere Paul explicitly forbids a woman to “exercise authority over a man” (1 Timothy 2:12). Does the apostle commend in one place what he prohibits in another? No respectable Bible student would dare defend such a proposition.
Epp, however, in a typically modernistic fashion, dismisses this passage as non-Pauline. Allegedly, the text is the work of a later writer who thrust his views relative to the “subordination of women” into the sacred text. This idiosyncratic view was not held in antiquity by those best qualified to know the authorship of the book, and it has been exposed many times by conservative scholars (see Mounce, pp. cxviiiff).
Finally, if “Junia,” a woman, was an official “apostle,” with the prominence and authority comparable to Peter or Paul, why, pray tell, is “she” never mentioned again in the entire New Testament, or at least, if only once, in a text that is non-ambiguous, so that it clearly establishes the case that liberalism so desperately desires? This is telling indeed. And why would Paul need to go to Rome, to impart to the saints there “some spiritual gift” (Romans 1:11), when, allegedly, there already was an apostle there who could handle that chore?
Sources/Footnotes
Danker, F.W. et al. (2000), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Chicago: University of Chicago).
Lightfoot, J.B. (1957 Reprint), The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (Grand Rapids: Zondervan).
Moule, H.C.G. (1977 Reprint), Studies in Romans (Grand Rapids: Kregel).
Mounce, Willian D. (2000), Pastoral Epistles—Word Biblical Commentary (Nashville: Thomas Nelson).
Robertson, A.T. (1919), A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research (London: Hodder & Stoughton).
Zahn, Theodor (1909), Introduction to the New Testament (Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark), Vol. 1.
Source:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1073-the-first-woman-apost...”
Let us meditate an other article:
“Men and Women in Ministry: Was Junias a Female Apostle?
In Paul’s greetings to the saints in Rome , he includes the following:
“Greet Andronicus and Junia [or Junias], my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me” (ESV; Romans 16:7).
Some translations render this, “well known among the apostles,” thus implying that both Andronicas and Junia were themselves apostles. There are several questions that must be addressed.
First, is Junias masculine or feminine? If feminine, then they are most likely husband and wife. Recent examination of extensive Greek literature outside the Bible gives little help. The word Junias turned up only twice as a woman's name and only once as a man's name. If Junias is a woman, do we have reference here to a female apostle? If so, it would be difficult to restrict women from holding senior governmental authority in the local church insofar as the office of apostle in the New Testament was the pinnacle of spiritual authority.
Second, how should we translate the passage: “well known to the apostles” or “well known among the apostles”? The latter would suggest that Andronicus and Junias were themselves apostles, well known in that unique circle of believers. The former would suggest that the apostles, such as Paul, knew these two people quite well.
The point has been made that "since Andronicus and Junias were Christians before Paul was, it may be that their longstanding ministry (reaching back before Paul's) is precisely what Paul might have in mind when he says 'of note among the apostles.' They may well have been known among the apostles before Paul was even converted" (Piper/Grudem, 80).
However, recent analysis of the grammar of this text (see M. H. Burer and D. B. Wallace, “Was Junias Really an Apostle? A Reexamination of Romans 16:7,” New Testament Studies 47 [2001]:76-91) has demonstrated that this particular construction should be rendered “well known to the apostles.” There is, therefore, no support for the idea that Junias, whether male or female, was herself/himself(?) an apostle.
Third, we must take into consideration how the word “apostle” is used in the NT. It is actually used in four senses: 1) of Jesus as The Apostle; 2) of the original twelve (with Matthias having replaced Judas Iscariot); 3) of Paul and perhaps 5 or 6 others (Silas, Barnabas, James; cf. 1 Thess. 2:6; Gal. 1:19; 1 Cor. 15:7; Acts 14:4,14); a technical use of a restricted group; and 4) a general use of many individuals who were "sent out" by a church as a delegated representative or messenger (cf. 2 Cor. 8:23; Phil. 2:25). If it can be demonstrated that Andronicus and (his wife?) Junias were "apostles", and given the nature of the grammar this is highly unlikely, it would likely be only in this fourth sense.
Thus I find no support in this passage for the suggestion that women held the apostolic office in the NT and thus exercised spiritual authority over the entire church body.
Source:
http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/men-and-women-in-minis...
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
-
-
Sister YENAN,
WHAT IS THE TRUTH?
WAS MARY OF MAGDALA AN APOSTLE?
THE TRUTH IS AS FOLLOWS
Commission issued to women CAN NEVER make them Pastors or Evangelists OR APOSTLES(Matt. 28:1-10)?
NEVER ! I SAY NEVER!
For example, can we assert that the Samaritan woman was a Pastor an Evangelist (John 4: 28-30)?
I don’t think so! Admittedly she was not sent by Jesus but she also made a testimony concerning Jesus-Christ.
Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO OVERSEE CHURCHES.
Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO BECOME PASTORS.
Jesus Christ never calls WOMEN TO BECOME APOSTLES.
For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.”
Luke 8:1-3
Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve?
No! This is not so in God's house!
Woman’s place is behind!
"He who has an ear,let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"
Revelation 3:22
Blessings,
Bro. Germain -
-
-
Dear sister Yenan!
You sound like Jezebel.
Yes, you look like Jezebel!
Moreover, let me tell you that I'm married to a godly and beautiful woman the 15th of November 2008. I love her too much.
I've been praying for many years and God provided me a godly woman. Amen!
We have no problem since we got married.
So, don't you see that your view point above is false?
May God forgive you.
Besides, if I'm really blind and spiritually death, please, take your Bible and show it.
Please, do not pray for me!
YOU ARE THO ONE WHO NEEDS A PRAYER, SPIRITUALLY BLIND JEZEBEL!
I love you though!
May God open your eyes!
Bro. Germain
-
-
Dear sister Yenan!
You sound like Jezebel.
Yes, you look like Jezebel!
Moreover, let me tell you that I'm married to a godly and beautiful woman the 15th of November 2008. I love her too much.
I've been praying for many years and God provided me a godly woman. Amen!
We have no problem since we got married. My wife is pregnant now and we are waiting for our first son.
So, don't you see that your view point above is false?
May God forgive you.
Besides, if I'm really blind and spiritually death, please, take your Bible and show it.
Please, do not pray for me!
YOU ARE THO ONE WHO NEEDS A PRAYER, SPIRITUALLY BLIND JEZEBEL!
I love you though!
May God open your eyes!
Bro. Germain
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Raliegh Jones Jr..
Powered by
