Hip Hop in the Church

[Rev. Kenneth R. Jenkins]

I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

[newview]

Pastor Hodge,
Yes we are to create a new sound but some stuff they say is God glorifying
and draws a person's spirit to God - only makes me want to jump on the floor and do the 'chicken noodle soup'...
Wow, thats old aint it?

Create a new sound 'yes' but it cant be some of this crap that they just 'write in' the name of Jesus and say its for the Body of Christ. It just aint gonna fly.....and notice - I said SOME.
Not everything is fleshy but is there to be any fleshy kinds of things goin on to edify the Body or to worship the Lord?

I cant lie and I wont - some of this stuff is of the devil.

[Kisbahlayish]

ok ...heres one ...there are no truly new sounds...solomon said it ..there is nothing new under the sun...nobody is creating anything truly new....just rearanging something older..a classic example would be fred hammond....all he does is combine genres ...and it comes out as his interpretation which sounds new to us...but when compared to EVERY musician....maybe not so new...just different...that being said....I think we are to author a fresh praise....which brings me to this ..in the bible it indicates that we should all come in with a psalm or hymn or testimony out of the congregation and bring it before the Lord...when is the last time anyone came into our traditional churches and offered up praise other than the worship leader of the house ....

[newview]

"...when is the last time anyone came into our traditional churches and offered up praise other than the worship leader of the house ..."

I dont know where you go - but I have been to more than a few.

[Kisbahlayish]

wait ... I figured it out...you guys are pew sitters arent you...the only place this kind of logic works is within the confines of the artificial world of the "4 walls" do me a favor...and get out and WITNESS to somebody...I dare you to find some young buck who you think knows nothing..proceed to tear your view of the bible into shreds...not with force...but with pure intellectual reasoning and all that crap they are filling his mind up with in high school and college...your traditions will have no effect...your church speak...will be snickered at......I am laughing as I see you now saying something like..."its the anointing that destroys the yoke" ...dude is going to look at you like..yoke...whats a yoke....and then it will turn into a shouting match...with you walking off thinking ...he/she is doomed to hell....so instead of you breaking it down telling them that Jesus loves them and died for thier sins...you will be too busy taking them on a shopping spree...first we must burn all of thier clothes...get rid of the short skirts...and the baggy jeans.....after that ...we need to head down to seminary...you need to learn how to speak like they did in 1611 ...and then after you have made the complete cultural conformation...now they are ready to make thier commitment to live for Christ....at this rate of conversion one might be looking at 2 years of solitary confinement and training per potential convert ....if you are now thinking after reading this that what I am saying is unrealistic how could anyone expect for someone to make a cultural conversion back to 1611 ...I would say EXACTLY!

side note:
if we did a time travel and took them back to 1611 that would make them contemporary for that time period and therefore of the devil(according to you)...so at that point we would have take them back an additional 400 years culturally...or retransport them to the future since they could not possibly fit within that period..being contemporary and all...which begs the question...t following that logic ...was everyone in 1611 was sinning by reading a bible written in a clear language that they could understand and singing songs of praise current and contemporary for that time period????...unless of course ...the bible transcends culture and musical phrases etc...last time I checked no missionary is going over to africa and asia and transforming the way the people dress and worship...(unless its really bad like sacrifices and such) last time I checked they assimilate in the villages introduce them to Jesus ...and guess what the people CHANGE THIER HEARTS! but of course African rhythms in and of themselves are evil..so they too must convert to the european rhythms and harmonies in order to be saved....but I digress....

[Rev. Spencer L. Miller]

I for one am glad that it was not the beat or the rhythm that brought to God, but it was the preaching of His Word that changed my heart.

[newview]

Kisbahlayish, Me thinketh the lady/man doeth protest to much :-)

My point is you guys reverence the music more than you do the Word of God.
If you think its the entertainment that is doing the drawing - or lack of entertainment will curtail people wanting to serve God - then you are confused about God.
And do I just blame those that want the most modern form of music in the churches?
No - that was never my point.
Because the truth of the matter is - it started before this generation.
The church went off track a couple of generations ago.
I dont know if it started with Mahalia Jackson or even the Mormon Tabernacle Choir (if you even want to call them Christian) and recordings but the problem started when people began placing song and music where the preaching was suppose to be.
I know that God gives gifts without repentence and to have the gift of song writing and playing instruments or singing is from the Lord.
But what is going on up on stage at church is not always glorifying God. Wouldnt you say?

Is everything sang or written or played God glorifying/
And I am not talking about what was in the heart of the person singing or playing...I am talking about from the standing in the gap and protecting the flock from wordly influences.
Anything goes?
There is no seperating the holy from the profane.

[Kisbahlayish]

first off I do believe in christian entertainment .....for me its all about 7 days of worship...we need to be a body that ushers in millennium thinking...our lives should be focused on Christ continually...but we have to have a culture that supports this reality...thats mine and many others position in the body of Christ...just because you are a christian does not mean you stopped being an individual...whatever that is..be it artist. businessman plumber electrician...the Bible states work as unto the Lord and I take it very literally...so excuse me if as a record producer engineer...media type that I start making products that are Christ centered and Christ focused...its that simple...

and its not about the beat...its the content...when I am choosing records for a radio show its about the track but above that it is about the content...as it is for many of my contemporaries..which I keep saying over and over...I mean really you should be embracing rap...we preach harder than most of the records you hear coming over the radio...I would think you would be on my side...but if it aint coming from 1611 or it doesnt sound like a metered hymn...you aint wit it...

when no ones looking hit itunes and check out these cats

for apologetics
Katalyst - I got proof

Hard hitting Doctrine
Flame - Context

Worship
Rswift - Awesome God

Repent ..before you stand before Christ and he says ...why were you attacking my ministers...he will say why were you attacking my prophets...

and you will say...sir I thought we were supposed to stay in this little box...
and he will say

DId you read any of the letters from paul or study the fact that he was preaching in a majority pagan society...

ok im done this time I really got to get back to work

[Rev. Spencer L. Miller]

When someone truly gets saved, God puts a NEW song in their mouth, and that song is "PRAISE unto our God" - the results of salvation is praise. It is not something we work up, or fake, or just do. When Paul and Silas were thrown in jail and in stocks they sang praise to the Lord. They weren't singing the blues, they weren't hip-hoping to the beat - they sang praises unto God. The goal of Satan is to have man praise man in order to defy the Lord, "But He [Jesus] turned, and said unto Peter, get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" - Matthew 16: 23. God's method of reaching the lost [regardless of their age] is the preaching of His Word, "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believed" - 1 Cor. 1: 21. It is the preaching of the Word that our youth need to embrace, this should be the primary reason for them to have a desire to know more concerning the Lord, and not a particular style of music that has a familiar beat to it.

[Bishop Derrick Day]

So...in other words, when we get saved, we just get a desire for old hymns -- which, by the way, many were considered heretical in their heyday -- and that "old time religion?" If that is the case, it is no wonder "churches" are failing to reach young people. Then again, if we apply the doctrines of election and OSAS, we can just throw up our hands and say, "oh well, some of them were just destined to perdition." It is this sort of religious, pharasee-ish thinking that is driving young people AWAY from the Church.

[Rev. Spencer L. Miller]

Again, you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say. It is the preached Word, it is not in the singing, but the Word of God that should "reach young [and old] to the church. You are advocating the use of pragmatism, what is pragmatism? It is the philosophy that results determine meaning, truth, and value - in other words, what will work becomes more important than what is true. We are called to witness and preach the message to others, and leave the results to Him. Somebody brought hip hop into the church, and the youth heard a familiar beat, they came to church because of the beat and the rhythm; but the beat and the rhythm has no saving value at all. If there are churches "...failing to reach young people" they need to lift up that problem in prayer to God, and not bring it to Soulja Boy and Snoop Doggy Dog.

[newview]

"...If that is the case, it is no wonder "churches" are failing to reach young people..."

You think churches are failing to reach young people because the music is not on point or could it be the Word of God is not being preached?
I understand that types of music will change but you guys keep pressing that YOUNG PEOPLE will go to hell because of the music.
Why so much entertainment focused?
Maybe stopped worrying so much about entertaining the crowds and preach more Christ being crucified, His resurrection and not being on such friendly terms with the world.

[Rev. Spencer L. Miller]

"...worrying so much about entertaining the crowds..."

I know of a pastor who gave his choir a month off for just that reason, with the exception of a few congregation hymns there were no selections sung by the choir. His reason was to get the church he pastored to focus more on the preached word, and not so much on entertaining each other. If we could sing our way to heaven there would be very little need for the preacher. The truth is, the songs presented by the choir are designed (or should be at least) to get the congregation prepared to hear the word of God. I said "songs" not rap.