I now understand more and more about this so-call world of "Hip-Hop". I understand now why "Hip-Hop"has really no place in our churches and yet it's slowly creeping in our church doors. After hearing all of this, I will stand behind fellow clergy members by NOT allowing "Hip-Hop" into our churches.

Pastors,Ministers and Church Leaders, would you allow "Hip-Hop" in your churches? Is this a way in keeping our youth in church? I am interested in all feedback concerning this issue.

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you know...God is not scared of a beat...he is in dominion over all...these artists simply use the Christ in them the Holy Spirit that dwells within to tell the world the Good news... over a real hot beat...
God's fears are not the topic of this discussion - giving satan a seat in the Church is. Hip Hop represents Evil; it is Evil! Holy Hip Hop is just Holy Evil! that is an Oxy Moran! No Man can serve two masters! why not just get a new beat?

Pastor Hodge
Pastor Hodge, you are not making any sense. Many artists/ministers use original productions. Who are you listening to? To make this statement, you must listen to the music yourself.
Rev. Mitchell,

We are obviously not discussing them now are we. The Topic of this discussion is: "Holy Hip Hop Music" in the Church. As I unerstand the definition of Holy Hip Hop Music is the taking the Tune of an "UNHOLY" Hip Hop song and "Remixing" with new HOLY words...Sorta like taking "New wine and pouring it into Old wine skins...If your artist are not doing this; then of couse one would not call it Holy Hip Hop" and thus they are not the topic of this discussion.

Pastor Hodge
I have learned over my short tenure in ministry that we, as the black church, must understand that there will be some diversity and specialities in how we get the message to the lost. Just like every player on a team can't play the same position. We all have our own specialties and target groups that God has called us to minister to and we should be pasionate about that, but we should also respect those who don't play our position. We need each other for the best outcome. I honestly believe that all of us have soul-winning as our main point of emphasis and that is what unites us as a team. I love each and every one of you and I apologize if this conversation has gotten more heated than it needed to become. I repent from any further name-calling.

I must tell you why this is such an issue with me.

I have had some gifted godly young men(teenagers) in my youth ministries that were some of the greatest men that I have ever met and they submitted to a call to minister to the hip hop culture. These men were truly gifted and gained great success in winning people to the Lord. They were infiltrating into a group that the black church had given up on. They brought hard core thugs, gang members, ex-convicts and drug dealers to Christ, not just teens but adults as well. These hard core thugs, gang members, ex-convicts and drug dealers dropped their sins and became productive soul-winners. This group began to grow. The problem arose when they started coming to church regularly and being active in ministry . The traditional church people began to ridicule them because they didn't dress like them. They began to stifle any creative ideas they had to win more souls to the kingdom. They wouldn't take them seriously, because they didn't look like them or talk the church lingo. This hurt me because many of them felt as though they could never be accepted by the church and they fell away. I realize that it was not the church's fault in every case, but I believe we must take some responsibility for this revolving door effect that we have going on in the church today. Godly people should not be determined based upon how many suits they have in their closets, but on how much fruit they have on their trees. We are called to be fishers of men, we catch the fish. The Holy Spirit cleans them and Christ makes them righteous in His name. It hurts me to see the church reject people, rather than simply rejecting sin.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a universalist. These men I am speaking of were men who had turned from their sins and had been restored to the kingdom of God. They are great mature soul winners and gained many to the kingdom, but churches reject them based upon the way that they looked, dressed and the way they wore their hair. Some of them had legitimate gifts in music and came to the church because they given God authority over those gifts. Many of you remind me of the response of those judgemental people that wanted to exile these godly men from church, who just wanted to glorify God with the gift that God gave them. That is why I am so passionate about this. One of the greatest young men that I have ever ministered to is a very naotable gospel hip hop artist. He has recorded many CDs and they all have had the biblical and theological soundness of a PH.D thesis along with the fact that they are excellently done with good sound quality. He has original beats and his lyrics aren't copy cat to anything secular. He was virgin, until he was married last year. He has degree form one of the best Christian Colleges in the world. He has inspired me to bettter myself. I have seen many people ridicule him for what he does, but he just goes on with a smile on his face, because he knows that he is doing the Lord's work.

This is why I am so passionate about this, because it personally hurts me to see people demean others for simply doing God's work. You might not understand it, but that's because you have not researched it.
Pastor, you have demonstrated a gift for laying this out and making it plain. I wish some of our brothers and sisters in Christ living under the bondage and tyranny of tradition would experience a taste of the liberty promised in 2 Corinthians 3:17. True liberty in the church would supercharge the effectiveness of the body of Christ and would release true world-changing power. God has truly blessed you, my Brother!
I join in with Bro. Day in saying that you do indeed have "...a gift for laying this out and making it plain..." and I understand exactly what you are saying. I've been in the church a pretty good while now and I can attest to the fact that there are people in the church who will judge someone for what they wear, and sadly enough they will judge a person for what material things he has or does not have. There are people in the church who will pass up their mission, while on their to mission, I hate to even say this, but I find it to be true and that is, you can find some of the most hurtful people in the world there in the church house. Speaking for myself, I have nothing against a person who performs hip hop or R&B in the church house. I am only against the practice, however, this would not make me look down on any of my brothers and sisters in the Lord. If I came to the church you pastor and a young man or woman should perform a hip hop number, I would not have the pharisaic pomposity to storm out of the building with some sort of look of disgust on my face. Because that is the church you pastor, and I believe that you should follow what YOU feel God is leading you to do. Yes, I know for sure that there are people in the church who will try and set the standards for everyone else and then have a completely different standard from themselves. I don't know you personally but you appear to be an extremely bright young preacher pastor. It will be very difficult, but you cannot allow what others think get you down, and you cannot allow the behavior of others in the church to affect your important ministry. As a pastor, you have to love those who refuse to love you back, and despite what I think or the others may think, there is one thing for sure; we are all in this leaky boat together.
Rev, Miller,

The trouble that I have with your comment is that this is supposed to be a open discussion amongst workers in the ministry; all positions are supposed to be welcomed. Yet when you use words that paint an opposition holder(s) with such a {negative tone} as to suggest that anyone that in dissagreement with the practice has something personally againts the practitioner is not only damaging to the discussion; but its quite unfair to the person raising legitmate opposition.

I too have never met Bro, Day; I too am adamenty apposed to bringing rap music into the Church; I disagree with everything that brother day has said, I think he is leading a dangerouse wide path that has no good outcome; that does not make me a bad person; It certainly does not make me a pharasee; Furthermore I don't think there is any reasonable person invited to another Pastors Church that is going to "Storm out" nor do I believe that any of us who disagrees with Bro. Day; looks down on him.

I don't look down on him; I just think that he and those on his side of this TOPIC has a zeal not according to knowledge, in time that may change and there will be someone or something else place.

The point is 22 years ago, I was asked what I thought of Homosexual Preachers in the Pulpit; My answer was simple, it is an afront to God, the Bible declares it an abomination and it has no place period, much less in the pulpit. Today you have "Openly Gay Bishops" and if you dare say anything against the "Practice" you are automatically considered a"Homophobe" This is the same direction that "Gospel Rapp is headed.

At some point in time the Church, The Church Leaders are going to have to take a stand! Stand ye therefore in the liberty wherewith ye were called. We were called out of the world to be different! We were called to represent the bold contrast to all that the world represents! We were called to be the Salt of the earth!

I am finished with this discussion.
Pastor Hodge I was speaking to young preacher Rev. Jones, the only agreement I had with Bro. Day was that the young preacher did indeed have a gift, and in my opinion he does. When I referred to the fact that there are people in the church with a pharisaic pomposity it was not geared towards you, but rather towards people I personally know. In fact, I believe you know people who are hard nosed in the church especially if you ever pastored a church. I did not call your name or anybody else's name for that matter. I was speaking strictly in general, I did make it known that I am against the use of hip hop music in the church. However, regardless of what you and I are in opposition of you and I have very little power to personally change what these young men and women decide to do in their particular church. Brother Hodge, you and I cannot go to their church with this argument and expect for them to cease the practice of including this type of music in their order of service. You and I are on the same page, I am more in agreement with you than you think, You and I have done all we could do with the exception of prayer, we have as church leaders taken a stand. We have expressed our opposition. My argument is that only God can add the increase, we can only do the watering.
Rev. Miller,

I can agree with that; and yes, I do Pastor a Church...I have no intentions of going into these Churches and tell them how they should operate...Like I always say...Since I did not die for them, shed no blood for them, did not call them to the ministry they don't answer to me.

On the other hand when they come to churches that don't approve of them they should respectfully accept their position and move on; instead what happens more often that not, is we are being demonized, reduced to angry old people not liking a particular song as though it is us that has erred from the truth;

this is the same thing that happened with homosexuality in the Church; the same thing that happened with slavery and the Church, the same thing that happened with the Klan and the Church the Irony Hitler believed that he was doing some NEW work for God...some Churches have this thing called the Holy Hustle this foolishness is an abomination and afront to God and if we as Pastors don't speak up now in Clear, Bold contrast to this nonsense we won't be what God wants us to be.

Let us reason together; if we continue spreading the Word of God; and pointing rightouse opposition based on the word of God; eventually God's way will prevail.

Pastor Hodge
Pastor Hodge,

We have made our point known and that it is clear, I was trying to encourage Rev. Jones because eventhough like you I am vehemently against the practice of introducing a secular form of music into the house of God, I am equally against discouraging young people with the uppity attitudes that Rev. Jones described, I know that you wouldn't condone any of your church members to mistreat someone simply because (in their mind) these young are dressed for the occasion. In my way of thinking, the church is a hospital and not a social club, if you belong to the Elks club or the Lions club it is a common practice to dismiss certain people who don't meet their expectations. But in God's house all should be welcomed that includes hard-core thugs, gang members, ex-convicts, drug dealers and even homosexuals. In fact, homosexuals have always been a part of the church, I don't agree with placing a homosexual in a leadership position in the church, but you have that too. Pastor Hodge, I believe the church you pastor is indeed blessed to have you as their leader. Because every church which preaches Christ crucified needs a leader who is not afraid to stand by his convictions.
beautiful...exactly...nail has been hit on the head...


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