Home Churches are re-emerging....Seeing that this is how the first church was established why are so many people in Modern day churches opposed to home churches?

[Child of the Kingdom]

Since being here on BPN we have come across so much opposition to Home Churches. Can anyone show in scripture where assembling together in a home is unbiblical and damaging to those who do this? The main scripture used is:

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

But the following scripture explains what the Lord considers to be an assembly, versus what we are use to seeing or being involved in:

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Now, back to the subject. How did the early churches meet. They met in homes. This old type of church is re-emerging all over again because there are many who will not set foot into today’s modern churches for various reasons. Many of these people want Jesus but are not comfortable with what they see happening in our congregations.



There are many good examples of church homes in the scripture so where does all this opposition come from.

Priscilla & Aquilla: 1 Corinthians 16:19
The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Romans 16:5
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Colossians 4:15
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Philemon 1:2
And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

[Child of the Kingdom]

Trust me sister Newview, I intend to. Whatsoever, you do in word or in deed, do it in the name of the Lord.

[Toni]

NewView,

"THE MAJORITY OF CHURCHES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD ARE IN HOMES!!!!!!!!
America's kind of Christianity is small and piquant compared to the rest of the world."

this is so true

[Child of the Kingdom]

Ezekiel 34

1. And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2. Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3. Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.

4. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5. And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

6. My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7. Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

8. As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9. Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

10. Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14. I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15. I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.

16. I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

17. And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

18. Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?

19. And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.

20. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.

21. Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;

22. Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.

23. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

24. And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

25. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

26. And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.

27. And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.

28. And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

29. And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.

30. Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.

31. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.

[Minister Robbin Swinger Otey]

I am not surprised that people are opposed, even though the largest Church in the world, in Korea, is founded on the very concept of home cell groups. That is the only way that they are able to meet the needs of their over 200K members.

I would suspect it is insecure pastors, overzealous home cell group leaders, lack of appropriate training and discernment, to just begin a list of why it may not work in the USA.

[Child of the Kingdom]

The same is true in China, where millions are forced into more intimate worship settings due to political opposition. They have millions who worship underground in homes throughout their country.

However, it is working in America as well. We were surprised to find as many people as we did in our own area. The group doesn't have a name but the fellowship continues and is not merely stationary. We fellowship with people of different racial groups as well as denominations. When I found the videos on the home page, I was happy to see that not only are Home Churches growing in America, but they are also reaching a group of people who are not comfortable with traditional modern churches.

As Trevor mentioned, we will ultimately be forced into this direction, due to the control that the Government will have over 501(c)3 establishments. (Muzzling our mouths against, abortion, homosexuality,.....etc.)

Be Blessed

[newview]

As Trevor mentioned, we will ultimately be forced into this direction, due to the control that the Government will have over 501(c)3 establishments. (Muzzling our mouths against, abortion, homosexuality,.....etc.)

I know this might not sound right - but I believe the government taking control over 501c3 establishments is EXACTLY what the Church needs. Not so much other establishments but the Church of God has GOT TO pull away so that she can do Her thing and depend TOTALLY on the Lord.

I say Yay!!

[A.W. Bowman]

Sister Warren -

Most excellent observations and comments. I would only add the following:

Individual assemblies do not necessarily require the full-time presence of the entire five-fold ministry. As we can observe from both the Old Testament and the New, the members of each 'class' of ministry were very few and traveled about from city to city, assembly to assembly, even from country to country. See Acts, First and Second Timothy, etc.

An aside: It is these ministers that are to be supported by the individual assemblies. Resident ministers were expected to support themselves and their families, and not to live off the rest of the believers like the Levitical Priesthood.

The local congregation was to have a local oversight of an eldership (even Peter and Paul referred to themselves as 'elders') that was to be appointed by one authorized to do so. When an issue arose that they could not handle on their own they called for assistance, much like the structure of eldership among the Jews in the wilderness. These elders were not just new believers who wanted to start an assembly, they were spiritually mature individuals, who had to have the ability to teach and exercise wisdom in resolving both spiritual and secular conflicts. Even so, much of the congregational authority and responsibility for the functioning of the local 'church' resided, not in one or two, or even a few leaders, but with the congregation as a whole. This included the entire range from teaching, counseling, worship to problem resolution and judgments. See Acts and First and Second Corinthians. The major stumbling block in understanding the church structure of the first three centuries is that we filter this history through modern-day eyes of our western society, not through the historical Hebraic world view.

We demand a single point of leadership – which cannot be supported in scripture. Actually, Jesus said that was not to exist among His Apostles, as those Gentiles demand. Paul implied the same thing in his instructions to Timothy. However, we are now in the assembly of those 'who were formally Gentiles' )1 Corinthians 12:2 but are now considered to be among the 'chosen people'.. We can have a 'Loan Ranger' in leadership of a congregation of three thousand, as well as in an assembly of just two or three. Regardless of the number involved, as long as we look to men as our final spiritual authority and not the Spirit and the word, we shall continue to have dysfunctional congregations (spiritual families). As long as we think that the meeting house of the local assembly is the place where people 'get saved', we are working in the barn and not laboring in the fields.
With all of that said, Sister Warren, you have demonstrated excellent perception into the difficulties and pit falls that so many house churches, Bible study groups, church special purpose groups and other small meetings have fallen into. No small group of believers can long be maintained without the support of those ordained by God to provide that spiritual support, leadership, and oversight that the Body of Christ requires. Whether that leadership comes from within or from visiting elders (by whatever titles they may have), we should all be in the practice of discerning the Spirits and actively submitting ourselves one to another. While most local congregations function 'autonomously', even when the pastor is affiliated with some larger religious organization, any such congregation functioning independently from the rest of the body stands in danger of either dieing from a lack of body support, or becoming a cancer cell within the body.

While this is a true depiction of the current western church, there is yet another danger that must be guarded against, i.e. the collection of churches, both large and small, independent and affiliated, into one 'united church' of world religions. But, that is yet another subject for consideration.

Grace and blessings be upon us all.

[John]

Brother Bowman your statement:

While this is a true depiction of the current western church, there is yet another danger that must be guarded against, i.e. the collection of churches, both large and small, independent and affiliated, into one 'united church' of world religions. But, that is yet another subject for consideration.

I agree but this is part of the One World Order policy that is trying to come into existence now. I hate to see it but it is part of the ushering in of the Antichrist. Praise God that His people recognize this and will stary away from it. God bless.

[A.W. Bowman]

That too, is my vision.

[John]

I agree as for as those of us covered by God in Jesus Christ but the church of Satan will definitely work on having a one world religion. This we must keep watching for so we can bring this to the attention of others. I too believe that at some point and time we will be called to come together. God bless you always Sister Warren.

[John]

Min Warren I know this was addressed to EW but if I may..lol! I have heard of the Five Fold Ministry all my life and have yet to see in scripture where it said a church has to have all five people in those positions with those gifts in order for it to be a viable church. This is man's termnology and thinking. All scripture says in Ephesians 4:11 - 12 is that, He (Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelist; and some, pastors and teachers; Why? For the perfecting (equipping) of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. There is nothing that states there can't be a church or it won't functiion if all of those gifts aren't present. Man says this not God. I know that Jesus said in Matthew 18:20, For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. A church is not a building and I know we can all agree on that. It is the body of believers that are the church or the body of Christ. If you asked every single person with the titles we see today I bet each one will tell you they were all called by God. PLEASE! Satan calls them also! It's the Spirit that teaches all of us including the so called Five Fold Ministry positions. If those aren't present I still believe the Spirit will get the message to those sincere about God's Word. I'm sure not all of those positions were present in every church and some were probably led by one or more of those positiions but possibly not all in order for that body of church members to progress and mature as you stated. I've been to churches that had a so called apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher and I tell you God was not there and those individuals were not called by God because if so the false doctrine and pride from those individuals would not have been present. Satan was in that church though for sure. Most time people start home churches because too many so called churches are failing and not of God. Maybe just maybe God has put in them to start a home church so He can provide them with His doctrine and not have the doctrine of man that most churches have today. Man has caused/turned a church into a tradition. Most of these people with these titles (given by man and not God) don't walk in anykind of anointing as you stated. I personally don't look at titles but listen to the message and I've heard more truths from people without titles than those that do have them.

You stated that:

You mentioned that this is the way they had "church in the bible". I'd like to ask how do we have church, we are the church. What you are saying is that people fellowshipped in their home but they still worshipped in the temple. One persons home could not facilitate a place to worship for the entire church/body. But if God truly calls some one to start a church and the place that they worship starts at their house as God did biblically adding to the church daily, he will add to that assembly and soon they will out grow the house.

Don't forget the temple was controled by the Pharisees and Sadduccees and they had twisted temple worship into their traditions and saying and not God's any longer. People came to the temples for the traditional teachings that those two sects were teaching coupled with more of their own injections. This is why the church was formed to counter those false teachings and eventually why the temple was destroyed. IT had become about man and not about God. If a home had gotten to big I'm sure God gave them a solution to that opportunity. We don't need a building period, we can come together in a park if need be! Today anyone can go to school and get a title after it being provided by man. Anyone as I stated (and I'm sure they do) can say "God called me to do this or that" and we believe them because we just can't dispute what they say because they said "God called them". Man is a liar! I just listen and observe and go to scripture to see if they have been called by God rather than by themselves or man. If Jesus destroyed the churches/temples today I'd say (just my opinion) more than half of them would be torn down because He's not in them just on the outside knocking trying to get in.

We have the WORD OF RECONCILIATION, those that are in Christ. We are to bring things back to agreement with God what Satan, evil men and the world has tainted. Read 2Corinthians 5: 17 - 19. We have the glory of the New Covenant as stated in 2Corinthians 3. There is One Body but Unity and Diversity as stated in 1Corinthians 12:1 - 14. What does God say through Paul in 1Corinthians 12:24 - 31. We as humans have put those positions that man has deemed as a Five Fold Ministry on a pedestal and why there is corruption in the churches, pride in the churches and other problems of the flesh in churches. All to the Glory of God not to the glory of man.

I know what I"m saying may not be popular but I'm not looking for that. I don't say what will please man but I try my best to say what God says and can show scripture or what God says. We can't take what God says out of context to make it fit what we want it to mean. I ask you this question, where in the Word of God does it say a church has to have those positions you mentioned or the people will not have a church.

Last thing, you also stated:

Another concern is that a lot of the people starting churches are really not called, equipped, anointed or have a supportive covering. They are lone rangers, and no one can really vouch for them and if they do have someone covering them the person covering them is no more effective.

As I mentioned those that have started churches aren't equipped, anointed or have a supportive covering. Who vouches for them? Man or God! Do we vouch for them because they are popular, on TV, have a huge congregation, full of charisma? How vouches for them really?

My two cents worth and may God bless us all and continue to open our eyes to see and our ears to hear His Words of Truth. Please don't take what I say as argumentive because I'm not being that, I just say what's on my mind hopefully in God's truths and not mine.

[Child of the Kingdom]

Thank you for your concern, Sister Warren.

My husband and I both have been saved for over 25 years and have both been in the Ministry for more than half of that time. Our home church was established out of obedience to the Lord. When we moved here 3 years ago from Michigan this is what the Lord commanded us to do. We didn’t start our fellowship out of hurt or any of the reason you stated. Simply out of obedience. Many times, people assume to know why home churches start and always equates it to rebellion, not wanting to be subject to authority or something sinister. But the Lord has called and blessed us and we operate under the anointing of the Holy Spirit whom is our covering. As I’ve stated before, we’ve never said this is permanent for us but the Lord told both my husband and myself not to mortgage a building.

You stated that our church cannot function without the covering of a Bishop or an Apostle or the five fold ministry’s presence within and that is contrary to the word of God. The Hierarchy that the Lord established can be found at the following:

1 Corinthians 11

 2. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
 3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

God - Christ - Husband - Wife = God’s Hierarchy

Bishop or Apostle - Husband - Wife = Man’s Hierarchy


You have given a list of what man requires to establish a Church when all Jesus said was, Where two or three was gathered together in my name, there will I be in the midst. You said that the complete five fold ministry must be present in our church in order for us to grow and mature properly in which the bible never states this. Well I would say that would disqualify 60 - 90 % of the established churches because many of them don’t have what you have stated. Not every church has an Evangelist, Pastor, Apostle, Prophet and Teacher. And sadly, many of those who are assuming the calling of Apostle and Prophet are false, not to say that there aren’t any truly called of God.

According to man’s doctrine no one can be saved unless they attend a church under man’s leadership and Hierarchy. Salvation is given by God not man. The problem with your theology is that those living in remote areas in other countries where they assemble in something less than our elaborate church building cannot be saved unless the five fold is operating. I would venture to say that those who are going to apostate churches are in more of a bind or error than those who worship in fields, small villages or in underground house churches, where religious persecution is high. The American church is in a fallen state and yet many believe that God is somehow pleased with what is going on in theses churches and assemblies and frowning on the smaller less elaborate gatherings of believers.


Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:20
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

I know that many mean well and some don’t when they try to correct someone on what God requires from establishing or assembling a church, but many fail to realize that the traditions of man, as seen in most churches is the reason why there is so much out of order in our churches. Also, we somehow mistakenly reduce God’s Church to our scattered buildings and organizations, when in fact, God’s church is all members of the Body Of Christ worldwide. I can assure you that God’s authority cannot and will not we linked to, or trumped by someone’s Bishop or Church denomination.

You seem to have the assumption that this Church model that is fashioned after the Roman Catholic church is in full alignment with God’s church when in fact it is not. If this were the case then you would not have over 2,000 established religions declaring that they hold the one and only truth.

In many countries, they do not have what you call, The five fold ministry model but have very humbles assemblies. It sounds like it is your belief that unless a church is modeled after your church or any other established American style, Roman Catholic church, God will not save them and they cannot grow. Find me scriptures to support this and I will recant.

You thanked brother John for his opinion and I will extend the same to you. Thanks for your opinion but it can not be supported scripturally.

May God Bless You Minister Warren