Well I guess when it comes down to it, just as Esau sold his birth right for a pottage, Obama, everyone's great hope forgot who gave him the victory and decide to sell his soul for another shot in the White House.

And before anyone jump up I have been an Obama supporter, but I can't agree with this move. Obama has just decided to put worldly prize above principle and above the things that is scared to God namely he has decided tojoin in the desecration to Gods oldest institution, the marriage.

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Gerald I am aware I am on Black preachng Network, my dear that is just a name I do accept and  having white people who is on here as friends.  In fact I did not see any notice or sign that state only black people can join, did you?  Oh and by the way I am on Jewish site, and white sites too if that makes you happier although they don't label it Jewish or white.

Angela, you just contradicted yourself.  Although they don't label their sites Jewish or white, you just did.

Gerald, the Bible says if where we lack wisdom we can ask and it will be given to us so brother please ask for it.because it is difficult to try and have a whortwhile conversation where one's eyes have not yet awaken in understanding and wisdom. And please do not take it as an insult.

Angela so because I don't agree with your biblical views, I lack wisdom?  Really?  A couple thinks I learned sometime ago were 1. our modern view of abomination is not accurate.  2. the scriptures that we use to condemn the gay community are not used in their proper cultural context.  I can expound on that if needed.

Gerald , thanks but no thanks we can expound Gods word and make it what we want but the true is you cannot change Gods words.

By expounding Gods word you have people in the gay community claiming Jesus was gay and such like.

I like you have studied theology, however I did not rely on everything someone else says I allow the Holy Spirit to open my understanding and give me understanding on Scriptures.

Angela what makes you think I rely on everything someone else says?  What makes you think that I did not allow the Holy Spirit to open my understanding?  I did not do the first but I did the second.


What I learned Angela is what we have been taught about those scriptures that you pieced together to condemn the gay community, are used out of context.  Using scriptures and using them in their context within scripture I was saddened to learn that we were sold bad theology.  See, it aint that you studied theology, it is where. 


But that is besides the point.  The point is, is that article that you posted from the Roman Catholic church, is biased.  Of course they are going to be against gay marriage.  This is the same institution that tried to ignore the fact that there were children being hurt in their own churches by their own priests and other staff. 


Again, we have a country where people will not be forced to marry those that they don't want to.  We also live in a country where gay marriage and civil unions are not recognized in every state.  This is why there is a fight.

I believe at least that the issue is not Obama or the NAACP or anything else we could possible through in the mix. The facts are that Obama could not have gotten into office unless the body of Christ had put him there and the real lesson out of all of this for everyone is for God's people and the leaders of the church is for us to get back to the basics, which is being led by the Spirit of God, for those led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.

The facts are and it should be fairly clear to anyone, that the Holy Spirit did not lead anyone to vote for Obama. We can confuse the issue and talk about everything else, but we as leaders of the church did error for encouraging anyone to vote for Obama and we also were in error for voting for Obama. The only way back is by repentance. The offense was to the Holy Spirit, because we are on the one hand saying we are representing the will of God and either that statement is very true or it is not true at all? If we are not representing the will of God then we probably should not be leaders in the church.

Now we can stay leaders in the church, but to do so will take repenting for not being led by the Spirit of God. If we talk about a lot of other things, we confuse the issue and the issue was that the body of Christ allowed Obama the opportunity to get into office.

The real point is if the leaders in the body of Christ do not repent, then why should our congregations repent? We influence them in one direction or the other. We go along and wonder why people are not going to church any longer thinking that it is them and not us. Oh yes they are a backslider as they have stopped going to church?

The reason for them to go to church is because we are hearing from God and we are representing the will of God, but if we are not representing the will of God then we are the ones who have lost our flavor.

We have a choice, but the only way back for us or anyone is repentance. We either stand for repentance or we give reasons why we should not repent.

We are an offense to God if we are leading the church and are not being led by God's Spirit and that is a very dangerous place to be. Should we be supporting organizations that do not represent the will of God? If we do then we are out of line with God, scripture and His will. It really is that simple. We can make it very complicated and not talk about the real issues, but it is us that are the issues if we are not in line with God's will as leaders of the church.


That'll preach!!!  But, lest we forget, "He is faithful and just to forgive us, . .'

This is in response to Angela: link

Angela Scripture tells us that those led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. That means to me at least that we need to be led by the Spirit of God and not make decisions on our own. It is not that I decide to separate, but if the church goes in the direction of Christianity, I cannot stop them.

In your own argument your quoting what the Catholics are doing and what organized religion is doing and yes much of that has to do with the 501c3 which controls a few trillion dollars worth of property, but that is not me and I don't need to go there and neither should anyone else. You stated that "So you my dear have to decide which side you are on the body of Christ or a separatist because as one body the arm cannot do without the foot neither the head without the hand."

I actually don't have to decide anything except to seek God for where to go and how to help, which is not being a separatist. I mean just because everyone is taught something differently that does not make me in error. Maybe it means that what others have been taught is in error. There were several brides, not just one, but only one bride had enough oil in the end.

The Catholic church which you quoted stated a long time ago that they were the only true Christian church. My response is "cool." I am not sure how you want me to respond to that, but yes church buildings and all the money in the church is under attack. I see it, but I am not sure what that has to do with me personally or us as a group. We can either all walk together or not as God leads, but so far most have gone their own direction including the Catholic church. That does not mean that I went with the bunch.

The promise is that if we seek the truth we will find the truth, but whatever one seeks is what they will find and many seek justification of why they do what they do and call it God's will?

I can say that if a person calls themselves a Christian then that is what they get even if God is not about Christianity which is a part of the over all problem, but then again I didn't start the problem and I do what I am led to do, but I cannot be responsible for everyone. Each person needs to go up the mountain as Moses did, but the people they said to Moses we will obey you if you go up the mountain and that is what is happening today. Same thing just different time period.

Today in the church boards of directors are running Christian churches. I cannot be a part of that? Today the church is a building with the covenant of a 501c3. OK what does that have to do with God, His love or will and then everyone is upset as it is not working out too well? Yes the church wants to blame the government which is why they are petitioning the government, because they know they are out of line with God, His love and will.

Today the choice is "is one ordained by God or by man?" If one is from God then they will represent the love and will of God and not a denomination. It is a choice one way or the other. Jesus is saying to everyone, "which master will you serve?" So far the church is saying that it serves the government as it is petitioning the government because it believes and accepts the government is over the church (which is why the church is petitioning the government). The Church put it in the hands of the government by entering covenant with the government.

If your church (anyone's) is a part of the 501c3 then they really should be looking at what that means and the authority they have given away in doing so. Your thread here was about (I thought) giving away the birth right as Essau, but the Christian church did that.

What is being faced today as it was not faced before is 1) who is authority over the body of Christ, 2) who ordains God or man, 3) should the church have entered covenant with the government and 4) how does the church get out from under the government.

If as you mentioned those are the sheep and the sheep have gone astray (which the Christian church does not believe it has gone astray, but believes the government has), there is little I can do about it?

Your words were;

"So you my dear have to decide which side you are on the body of Christ or a separatist because as one body the arm cannot do without the foot neither the head without the hand."

I did not separate from God or His love or will. It is the Christian church that probably did. Your comment probably should have been made to the Christian church? Does this make sense?

First of all Sarah not once my dear have I not quoted the catholic church so not sure whose response you are mixing up with mine but maybe I should explain to you I am neither catholic or anglican.  First and foremost I am a lowly servant, who is a true believer and no it it not man who say you must stand united as a body it is Scripture and it is not man that says one must make a decision it is Scripture that says one cannot have two masters and it s not man that state that shepherds ought to keep the sheep together it is Scripture.

And if we claim to be believers and are being led to separate from believers or from shepherding the sheep then maybe its time to pray to ensure the right person is who is doing the leading for the word of God says the hirelings are the ones who would lead the sheep to scatter and go their own way.

I cant comment on you statements regarding Catholics I know nothing about them and do not seek to know anything about them because the word of God never tell me that Mary is a God or that I should worship a man or that I should bow down to or kiss the cross so I dont know whose camp they are in but when I speak of believers I am refering to those that are followers of Christ which means tht they accept that only god ought to be worship so if the reason yu keep quoting catholic is to find out if I am catholic then you have your answer.

When you leave the sheeps t the mercy of the govenment that my dear will cause them to be scattered and to go astray, hope that clarify it more clearly

You are so preoccupied with the catholic church I wonder if maybe somehow you were once a part of it, believe I have never in my life being or will ever be associated as a catholic.

Angela in all fairness, you did post a biased article written by someone influenced by the Roman Catholic Church.  I find it odd that you know nothing about Catholic Church and yet you post that article.

Sarah and Phil what I made clear in the article was one the European Courts are saying that should the rights of marrigae for gays become lawful then no one who perform marriages will be able to refuse to marry any gay couple who approach them for such.  The Europeoon court is warning that governments must be careful before bringing out that law unless they know what it entail because if the law was establish they would expect every one in the land to uphold it regardless of believe and there will be severe penality for anyone who refuse to perform such.

Now I think I mention on several occasion that I am not from America so really this 503 or whatever I thought it was a mistype by you do not mean anything to me and personally I do not know or want to know what either the catholic or ojw do. I believe on several occaion I state my concern is for true believers of Christ but I must pick up something you keep doing which is in contradict to the point you keep making and that you appear to have a problem with people calling themselves christian yet you free use the name Jesus that obsolutely do not make sense my sister.  And if you dont understand what I mean you need to either stop having abeef with people for calling themselves christian or you need to go back to study why you cannot have a beef with people calling themselves christian yet accept the name of Jesus that in itself is a contradiction of the biggest kind


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