Jesus is Yah myth debunked and refuted

[Zealot X]

This thread is designed to show that the doctrine of Hezekiah and others that YHWH and Yeshua (The Messiah) are the same person is false. Hezekiah has consistently railed against me for not believing what he believes (even though he is in the minority of Israelites) but he has a tendency to cry foul every time I invite him to debate it out fairly. I have even advised him that he can take some time to study first before beginning the debate. I believed I was being fair. He attacked me further and then ignored my posts. Now he is accusing me again and posting texts at me. So I would like for Hezekiah and any one else who agree with this false doctrine to step up and have a reasonable and rational debate. No argumentum ad hominem. No immature games. Just text and commentary.

And for Hezekiah.... I know you detest commentary but without supplying it I have to GUESS what your interpretation is. Stop assuming that what you read can only say one thing; what YOU think it says. Explain why you believe it says what you believe it says.

[newview]

Gospel of John
1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2] He was with God in the beginning.
3] Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

You know I have been saying that you guys need a supernatural Jesus - I should have said -
Yall need a supernatural God.
You really need to move from the natural and step into the spiritual.

[Zealot X]

I'm going to repost this for you, newview. Apparently you didn't see it. I'm not even sure you understand what the spiritual even is at this point. Do you understand metaphor? Also, I think it needs its own thread because many people don't understand "the word".

REPOST:
Yes..... but again..... you are assuming that the LOGOS is a person. The only reason why you make this assumption is because you read the text backward. I'm trying to help you. Let's look at some examples from the NT so you can see how the "word of G-d" is described as "coming". Hopefully, since I believe you are very intelligent, you should see that they are employing some figurative language. When you are talking about literal things it is most simple to use literal language. But when you are talking about spiritual things then you use figurative language so that people can understand. With that said please follow along.

Mark 7:13 - Making the word of G-d of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Luke 3:2 - Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of G-d came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.


Pause. How was John born? The word of G-d came to John. John was born to a previously barren mother. And for some reason John says this:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of G-d, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of G-d.

plural. John is clearly speaking of multiple persons. Could he not have been speaking of himself, showing that he is a credible witness because he received the "word of G-d"? I just showed you were it said that the word of G-d came to him. When did it come to him? It says in the wilderness. How old was he when he was in the wilderness? How old was Yeshua at that time?

John 10:35 - If he called them gods[judges], unto whom the word of G-d came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Yeshua is saying that the word of G-d also came to HIM! So how then is he the "Word"? You have been bamboozled. Yeshua defended himself against the charge of making himself a judge by saying that he had every right to be a judge because the word of G-d had come to him. If that is true then he is NOT the "Word". Of course he doesn't have to be in order for John 1 to make sense.

The word was the word. It was not a person. It was not alive. It was NOT FLESH.

Luke 8:21 - And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of G-d, and do it.

They weren't confused about what the word of G-d was.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 - For this cause also thank we G-d without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of G-d which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of G-d, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

When John said that the word became flesh he was talking about the word of G-d taking the FORM of a living person. This is FIGURATIVE not metaphysical. Just like in Ephesians 6 the word is not literally a sword. It's figurative. It's a metaphor. The Torah, written on stone, in the new covenant was supposed to be written on the heart. Is that literal too? Did that not happen? I say it happened because people heard the "WORD OF G-D" and accepted it and believed. And this is how they became the sons of G-d and righteous. It ties in perfectly to the prophets and to 1 John 3. How can you not understand? Yeshua was the MEANS of how YHWH got his word into people's hearts. He didn't send his word on stone tablets, nor through the prophets. Hebrews 1 tells us that in sundry times he gave his word through them but in these times he gave it by Yeshua. By making the word a living breathing thing he could show and demonstrate a perfect example that people could FOLLOW. And from hearing the WORD you can apply it in your life so that it is LIVING in YOU. Do you see the connection?

Jeremiah 31:33 - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their G-d, and they shall be my people.

This is what is happening in the NT with the holy spirit. If this isn't what's happening then this prophecy has not been fulfilled and there is no new covenant; just something cooked up for gentiles to have their own religion. But I say.... this prophecy HAS been fulfilled and that the word of G-d became a seed that was planted in the hearts of men.

Luke 8:11 - Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of G-d.

Yeshua is the "WORD MADE FLESH". He is not the "Word" itself. This is what you fail to comprehend.

Open your heart to hear the word of G-d and pray for understanding. This isn't hard to understand but if you defy the word of G-d with your own belief you will be blind to the truth of his word.

Shalom

[newview]

Zealot,

There is no way you can get this board and turn my head.
Jesus Christ is the Saviour and God saved His people.

I know that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.
Dont waste your posts on trying to get me to change my faith in God and how He saved us and who He is.

Maybe the others will entertain your posts on this subject - but its noise to me.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

http://abcpreachers.ning.com/forum/topics/we-have-never-dealt-with-the

[newview]

Hezekiah, do you like a lot of Hebrew words?
Maybe this will help with the revelation of The Word being God.
This is by a real Hebrew of the Hebrew Rabbi who believes in the Messiah and whose teachings I have enjoyed for years...you might enjoy it...maybe not.
His messages are basically to his Jewish brethren who have refused to believe in Jesus as the real Messiah. Check it out:

" Those with an ignorant prejudice toward these genealogies often also have a bias against the kedusha hameshuleshet, the threefold holiness, of Hashem. This is a concept seen in the Shema, where the name of G-d is given three times. Shema Yisroel, Adonoi Eloheinu Adonoi Echad. There it is. Three times. The mystery of the number three, the “razei d’shlosha.” There it is, three times: first Adonoi, second, Eloheinu, third, Adonoi. There we have something like Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh in Isaiah chapter 6. In volume 2, page 43 of the Zohar, it says, “How can the THREE be ONE? … Then the Zohar says, How Three can be One can only be known through the revelation of the Ruach Hakodesh, the Holy Spirit.”


Also in this ancient Mahzor I have here it speaks of the threefold unity, not three g-ds, but Adonoi Echad. So this is Hashem as He reveals himself: the Chochmah of Hashem, that is, the Devar Hashem who came in person, in the flesh from Hashem though the Ruach Hakodesh. This is the mystery of the kedusha ha-meh-shu-leh-shet, just as we have the ba-ra-chei-nu ba-bracha ha-meh-shu-leh-shet in the Prayerbook where we bless in the threefold blessing of the Aaronic Benediction, Y’vareh-ch’chah Adonoi v’yeesh-m’reh-chah, Y’air Adonoi pah-nahv eh-leh-chah vee-cho-neh-chah. Ye-sah Adonoi pahnav eh-leh-chah v’yah-seym l’chah shalom. We do this because Hashem is Adonoi Echad, but He is also Elohei Kedusha HaMeshuleshet. He is the One L-rd, the Elokim of Threefold Holiness. "

[Zealot X]

So you believe in the Zohar? Or just in the man who quotes from it?

[newview]

" So you believe in the Zohar?..."

No THEY (many Jews - real Jews) believe in the Zohar. :-)

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

I don't speak Hebrew Newview.

[Zealot X]

Moses was also used to save his people. Was he G-d Almighty too?

You see it as noise but it is because you have no defense. All you can do in such a case is restate your belief. You obviously are ill equipped to debate this issue and in which case you don't really need to speak at all. Do you? What is the purpose of you saying anything if you cannot respond to the subject matter of the thread? You waste my time responding to me when you don't really care what the truth is. It's all about what you believe which is all about what your church has convinced you of. But you are not unique. There are tons of Christians just like you and I do not waste my time on them because at the end of the day here's a little secret


.... They don't really care.

Your spirit has been telling me the same thing. All this other stuff are just excuses used by your mind to rationalize the challenge to your beliefs. I have no interest in changing your faith or anyone else's. My interest is in sharing knowledge. Those who would rather have ignorance are lost to me. And you never really had an interest in learning anything that doesn't agree with what you already believe. It's noise to you and so your responses are just noise to me. Equally pointless.



Shalom

[James Pierce]

Newview,

Don't mess with the Zohan.

[newview]

Because he will toss me a new hairstyle for sho ! :-)

[Zealot X]

lol